Bubba
Still learning
Hi all,
I've been lurking on this forum for a few weeks and have been very impressed with the information sharing. There sure is a lot of knowledge around here. I'm looking for a little advice. I am a pure amateur photographer. I currently shoot using a Canon SLR and a handful of lenses. The SLR is nice, but has way too many automated features. I try to force myself to shoot in manual mode, but frequently I get lazy and switch it over to automatic and let the camera make decisions for me. Additionally, I find it very difficult to focus this camera manually. Especially a pain in low light situations. I've been wanting to delve into a rangefinder camera. I've never used a rangefinder camera before. The closest I've gotten to a rangefinder is using a Nikonos III 12 years ago to do a bunch of underwater stuff. Focusing was done by estimating the distance to target. I used an external meter and a single strobe. I liked the fact that I was forced to think about what I am doing. I really enjoyed the satisfaction on those rare occasions when I got everything right and the shot was exactly as I planned. I think a rangefinder could help me achieve the same satisfaction.
I've been given permission from the boss (my wife) to buy a "new" camera. I need to keep it in the $400 price range. I typically like to shoot outdoors using natural light. I mostly use elitechrome because I really like its saturated colors and I get real nice scans off it. I know a lot of rangefinder guys like to shoot only in B/W, but I've also seen a number of nice shots in color. I would shoot B/W, but a darkroom is completely out of the question and getting B/W film processed is extremely expensive. I would have to stick with the C-41 processed films. Unfortunately, none of the local shops deal with rangefinders. I've been looking at the Bessa R. Camerquest has a package deal for the body with 35/2.5 lens for $399. I figured I could start building a lens collection and if I ever get an M-mount camera I could still use the lenses with adapters. I would like to know if you think this would be a good choice. Or, is there a better way to go? I'm a little reluctant to buy a camera I know nothing about on EBay. I wonder if there are some other options that I'm overlooking. Any and all advice is most appreciated. I appologize for the long winded post, but I figured more information would help you make recommendations.
Thanks for your time.
Bubba
I've been lurking on this forum for a few weeks and have been very impressed with the information sharing. There sure is a lot of knowledge around here. I'm looking for a little advice. I am a pure amateur photographer. I currently shoot using a Canon SLR and a handful of lenses. The SLR is nice, but has way too many automated features. I try to force myself to shoot in manual mode, but frequently I get lazy and switch it over to automatic and let the camera make decisions for me. Additionally, I find it very difficult to focus this camera manually. Especially a pain in low light situations. I've been wanting to delve into a rangefinder camera. I've never used a rangefinder camera before. The closest I've gotten to a rangefinder is using a Nikonos III 12 years ago to do a bunch of underwater stuff. Focusing was done by estimating the distance to target. I used an external meter and a single strobe. I liked the fact that I was forced to think about what I am doing. I really enjoyed the satisfaction on those rare occasions when I got everything right and the shot was exactly as I planned. I think a rangefinder could help me achieve the same satisfaction.
I've been given permission from the boss (my wife) to buy a "new" camera. I need to keep it in the $400 price range. I typically like to shoot outdoors using natural light. I mostly use elitechrome because I really like its saturated colors and I get real nice scans off it. I know a lot of rangefinder guys like to shoot only in B/W, but I've also seen a number of nice shots in color. I would shoot B/W, but a darkroom is completely out of the question and getting B/W film processed is extremely expensive. I would have to stick with the C-41 processed films. Unfortunately, none of the local shops deal with rangefinders. I've been looking at the Bessa R. Camerquest has a package deal for the body with 35/2.5 lens for $399. I figured I could start building a lens collection and if I ever get an M-mount camera I could still use the lenses with adapters. I would like to know if you think this would be a good choice. Or, is there a better way to go? I'm a little reluctant to buy a camera I know nothing about on EBay. I wonder if there are some other options that I'm overlooking. Any and all advice is most appreciated. I appologize for the long winded post, but I figured more information would help you make recommendations.
Thanks for your time.
Bubba
R
Rich Silfver
Guest
Hiya Bubba and welcome to our ever-growing group of range-finder fanatics.
Happy to hear you're interested in rangefinder cameras.
Here are som things to think of before you dive into it though.
With a rangefinder camera you will have a hard time;
- doing macro photography,
- doing sports/fast moving photography,
- using focal lenghts over 100mm (sure 135, etc is possible but quite honestly it's a pain).
With a rangefinder you will however;
- gain access to some of the sharpest lenses ever made,
- being able to take photos in low light at shutter speeds of 1/15th of a second without camera shake (no mirror inside) - I'm sure some people can do it at slower than 1/15th but I'm not of them
- able to use cameras that are very quiet to use (once again - no mirror slap),
- oh - and the ability to hang out here and post your rf photos and tell us how you just bought your 6th camera...
When it comes to WHAT camera and lens you should get you're bound to get a lot of different opinions and suggestions.
I guess there are two schools of thoughtl;
a) Since you're pretty new to RF photography get a cheap camera like the Canonet, Olympus RC, etc for under 100 dollars and see if you like it or not
b) Jump in the deep end and get something solid right off the bat.
I favour option 'b'. Spend all of your 400 bucks. Get something 'as good as possible'. Buy new not used. If you hate it - sell it and hopefully your loss won't be that big - but atleast you'll know you really did try the 'real experience'.
I think a Bessa sounds good and if you decide to down that route just remember one thing - come back and tell us your experience and post some photos!
Good luck.
Happy to hear you're interested in rangefinder cameras.
Here are som things to think of before you dive into it though.
With a rangefinder camera you will have a hard time;
- doing macro photography,
- doing sports/fast moving photography,
- using focal lenghts over 100mm (sure 135, etc is possible but quite honestly it's a pain).
With a rangefinder you will however;
- gain access to some of the sharpest lenses ever made,
- being able to take photos in low light at shutter speeds of 1/15th of a second without camera shake (no mirror inside) - I'm sure some people can do it at slower than 1/15th but I'm not of them
- able to use cameras that are very quiet to use (once again - no mirror slap),
- oh - and the ability to hang out here and post your rf photos and tell us how you just bought your 6th camera...
When it comes to WHAT camera and lens you should get you're bound to get a lot of different opinions and suggestions.
I guess there are two schools of thoughtl;
a) Since you're pretty new to RF photography get a cheap camera like the Canonet, Olympus RC, etc for under 100 dollars and see if you like it or not
b) Jump in the deep end and get something solid right off the bat.
I favour option 'b'. Spend all of your 400 bucks. Get something 'as good as possible'. Buy new not used. If you hate it - sell it and hopefully your loss won't be that big - but atleast you'll know you really did try the 'real experience'.
I think a Bessa sounds good and if you decide to down that route just remember one thing - come back and tell us your experience and post some photos!
Good luck.
GeneW
Veteran
Bubba,
Just a thought, but if you're new to rangefinder cameras you could pick up a good used 60's or 70's fixed lens rangefinder and try it out for awhile so you know if you'll like this kind of photography before committing heavily. Small investment on your part, lots of scope for learning, and most of these cams have very good optics.
Every so often one of the regulars on this forum has a model in their collection for sale. Much better than eBay.
Gene
[edit] I evidently posted at the same time as Richard and as you can see I favour a different approach
Just a thought, but if you're new to rangefinder cameras you could pick up a good used 60's or 70's fixed lens rangefinder and try it out for awhile so you know if you'll like this kind of photography before committing heavily. Small investment on your part, lots of scope for learning, and most of these cams have very good optics.
Every so often one of the regulars on this forum has a model in their collection for sale. Much better than eBay.
Gene
[edit] I evidently posted at the same time as Richard and as you can see I favour a different approach
T
Todd.Hanz
Guest
Bubba,
Welcome to the forum. You sound as if you have thought this out pretty well so here is my opinion for what it's worth.
The Bessa deal is pretty sweet, I don't have one myself but almost everyone else here does. It would make a great "only" camera and an excellent 2nd body for an "M" or screw mount Leica later on down the road.
I like the idea of buying a fixed lens rangefinder for the first one, most were made in the late 60's to early 70's and have wicked sharp lenses with fast 1.7-2.8 apetures. This would be a good start to see if you like the way these cameras handle.
Some examples would be: Canon G III QL17 (or any of the Canonets), Yashica GSN, Olympus RC, RD, SP....., the list goes on and on. You won't go wrong with any of these.
I don't want to tell you how to spend your dinero, I mean if the "boss" says do it, don't look a gift horse in the mouth!
Todd
Welcome to the forum. You sound as if you have thought this out pretty well so here is my opinion for what it's worth.
The Bessa deal is pretty sweet, I don't have one myself but almost everyone else here does. It would make a great "only" camera and an excellent 2nd body for an "M" or screw mount Leica later on down the road.
I like the idea of buying a fixed lens rangefinder for the first one, most were made in the late 60's to early 70's and have wicked sharp lenses with fast 1.7-2.8 apetures. This would be a good start to see if you like the way these cameras handle.
Some examples would be: Canon G III QL17 (or any of the Canonets), Yashica GSN, Olympus RC, RD, SP....., the list goes on and on. You won't go wrong with any of these.
I don't want to tell you how to spend your dinero, I mean if the "boss" says do it, don't look a gift horse in the mouth!
Todd
back alley
IMAGES
so many options...
welcome bubba, i've seen you lurking and wondered when/if you might post.
the gandy deal is sweet, camera and body for $399. i like both the r and the 35/2.5 and i doubt you could do better for the dollar value. used is tough to go as it's hard to know what will show up on your door, that's if you go the ebay route.
many here have started out with a fixed lens rangefinder camera, either at the beginning or rebirth of their interest in shooting.
i have a few fixed lens cams and still enjoy taking them out for a stoll occasionally. they mostly have solid build and sharp lenses. if you find a good one they are hard to beat.
you sound grounded in your photography in that you have some equioment and know what you like and don't like about your shooting style.
if it were me, i would go for the bessa deal and just enjoy. as stated before, you could always sell it if you really dislike the rf way or the bessa itself or build on it if you decide to grow/upgrade later on.
let us know what you decide...
joe
welcome bubba, i've seen you lurking and wondered when/if you might post.
the gandy deal is sweet, camera and body for $399. i like both the r and the 35/2.5 and i doubt you could do better for the dollar value. used is tough to go as it's hard to know what will show up on your door, that's if you go the ebay route.
many here have started out with a fixed lens rangefinder camera, either at the beginning or rebirth of their interest in shooting.
i have a few fixed lens cams and still enjoy taking them out for a stoll occasionally. they mostly have solid build and sharp lenses. if you find a good one they are hard to beat.
you sound grounded in your photography in that you have some equioment and know what you like and don't like about your shooting style.
if it were me, i would go for the bessa deal and just enjoy. as stated before, you could always sell it if you really dislike the rf way or the bessa itself or build on it if you decide to grow/upgrade later on.
let us know what you decide...
joe
L
Laika
Guest
Hi ya Bubba,
Welcome .. It sounds like you have done some homework already. I think if you can afford the Bessa with a 35mm lens is a very good entry point into the RF world, you really have to spend a lot more $$ to get minimal improvements over this unit. Good luck.
Welcome
.. It sounds like you have done some homework already. I think if you can afford the Bessa with a 35mm lens is a very good entry point into the RF world, you really have to spend a lot more $$ to get minimal improvements over this unit. Good luck.
R
RML
Guest
Another Yea! to the Gandy deal.
You could go for a russian RF later but I would recommend to get a silver Jupiter-8 50mm/f2. Get it from one of the Russian/ Ukrainian dealers on eBay and you can be pretty sure you get a good specimen, though perhaps not as cheap as when taking a gamble with some other eBay sellers. These J-8's go for very little, as low as $10 up to about $25 (though some may offer it at a higher price, mind you). Perhaps someone here on RFF is willing to sell you one?
What else can you desire with a Bessa R, the wonderful CV 35/2, and the incredible (really the best bang-for-the-buck) J-8 50/2?
You could go for a russian RF later but I would recommend to get a silver Jupiter-8 50mm/f2. Get it from one of the Russian/ Ukrainian dealers on eBay and you can be pretty sure you get a good specimen, though perhaps not as cheap as when taking a gamble with some other eBay sellers. These J-8's go for very little, as low as $10 up to about $25 (though some may offer it at a higher price, mind you). Perhaps someone here on RFF is willing to sell you one?
What else can you desire with a Bessa R, the wonderful CV 35/2, and the incredible (really the best bang-for-the-buck) J-8 50/2?
What they all said.
I have both the Bessa R and R2. I bought the R after an intoduction to RF photography by Canonet, and recently picked up the R2.
By comparison, both cameras are very good. The R2 has a bit more substantial construction, but it is in the materials of the camera and not so much in the feel. Like everyone else said, the package deal for the R right now is unbeatable. If you decide to go that way, do so with confidence.
I have both the Bessa R and R2. I bought the R after an intoduction to RF photography by Canonet, and recently picked up the R2.
By comparison, both cameras are very good. The R2 has a bit more substantial construction, but it is in the materials of the camera and not so much in the feel. Like everyone else said, the package deal for the R right now is unbeatable. If you decide to go that way, do so with confidence.
Bubba
Still learning
Wow! Thanks for all the replies. You have given me a lot of good advice. Admittedly, one of the things that truly draws me to the rangefinders is the lenses. I have a couple of wide angle zooms, but find myself hanging out at the widest angle for most of my shots. I have a 50mm f1.8 that I love. So, I think the way I shoot will be more in line with a rangefinder. I have an E-TTL flash, but absolutely hate taking flash pictures. I never get the results I desire. I think it is probably more of a problem with my lack of knowledge and experience with flash. Lighting is so much more difficult to deal with when you are the one in control of it. I like to let mother nature put together the light and let me take the photo. I would seriously consider an older rangefinder, but buying one without being able to put my hands on it first is a bit risky.
I will keep you posted on what I decide and I look forward to sharing a few pics.
Thanks again for all the great advice.
Bubba
I will keep you posted on what I decide and I look forward to sharing a few pics.
Thanks again for all the great advice.
Bubba
Huck Finn
Well-known
Bubba, I looked at the Bessa R as an option & didn't like the awkwardness of changing lenses on such a mount. I'd suggest you handle one before you buy, or buy from a dealer who will let you return it - no questions asked - in case you don't like it. If you are looking to mount a single lens, then no problem. A screw mount camera also restricts you to new Voigtlander lenses or 40+ year old lenses from Leica & other manufacturers - with few exceptions.
You should be aware that the Bessa R generated many complaints on the internet both for the quality of its paint job (wear shows up within a matter of weeks) & for problems in rangefinder misalignment out of the box. The Bessa R also has many fans who are very happy with it.
Good luck,
Huck
You should be aware that the Bessa R generated many complaints on the internet both for the quality of its paint job (wear shows up within a matter of weeks) & for problems in rangefinder misalignment out of the box. The Bessa R also has many fans who are very happy with it.
Good luck,
Huck
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R
RML
Guest
Huck Finn said:
One could do worse than buying modern CV or excellent but older Canon, Schneider, Leica, Leitz or even Russian lenses. At least most of these lenses won't bankrupt you while you're still building your collection.
I've been using my Bessa L and R every day for a year now and neither has shown any wear or flaking of the paint. The RF problems were with the early batch, and when you buy from Gandy your new R won't have any problem.
It's really up to you, Bubba. You seem to know a thing or two about photography so I guess you can make a balanced jusgement when deciding what to buy. The Bessa deal is great. You won't find a cheaper way to getinto RF photography. And if you find the R lacking after some time, sell it on eBay and get yourself a user Leica M4. You'll still be able to use the glass for the Bessa R with an adapter on the Leica M. I doubt you'll be disappointed with the Bessa R.
Bubba
Still learning
I just wanted to let you know that after long consideration I decided to go with the Bessa R and 35/2.5 lens package from Stephen Gandy. He was expecting a shipment today and if it comes, he will ship it to me tomorrow. Otherwise, I will have to wait a couple of weeks. The way my luck goes, I will probably be waiting a couple of weeks. Oh well, it will give me something to look forward to. I just love getting new toys.
I really want to thank you for taking the time to share your recommendations with me. It was very helpful. A lot of things I had already thought of and several I hadn't. Hopefully, if the results aren't too disastrous I will be posting some pics pretty soon.
I really want to thank you for taking the time to share your recommendations with me. It was very helpful. A lot of things I had already thought of and several I hadn't. Hopefully, if the results aren't too disastrous I will be posting some pics pretty soon.
GeneW
Veteran
Bubba, congratulations on your decision! I know it's a cam you'll enjoy and we'll be looking forward to your new images!
Gene
Gene
Bubba
Still learning
Well, everybody, I finally got my new Bessa R plus lens. Unfortunately, I live on the east coast of Florida (smack in the path of Hurricane Frances). I received the camera on the same day that we received the evacuation notice. So, I have a nice new toy, I had to leave my house, I'm in a safe house on the mainland, and we are just waiting for the big winds to start. Right now we are getting steady 35mph winds with occassional gusts to 65mph. Later tonight, the big winds (105+mph) are going to start. The latest reports say we will have the big winds for 12 to 20 hours. We have hurricane shutters up on the house we are in and a safe room prepared to ride out the storm. Our house is on one of the barrier islands and there is a good chance that we will lose it. On top of all this, I really have nothing I can take pictures of with my new toy. I have taken a couple of shots with the new camera when the light was strong enough. I like the way it feels and how it handles. Now, how my pictures will look, will have to wait for a while.
Right now we have electricity and cable, but who knows when that will cut out. It is scary and boring at the same time. We just want this storm to do what it will do and be done with it. I hope you don't mind me rambling about this, but you guys have been so nice to me that I figured you might be interested in what is going on.
Take care and I will keep you updated (if you are interested) as long as the electricity stays on.
Bubb in Melbourne, Florida
Right now we have electricity and cable, but who knows when that will cut out. It is scary and boring at the same time. We just want this storm to do what it will do and be done with it. I hope you don't mind me rambling about this, but you guys have been so nice to me that I figured you might be interested in what is going on.
Take care and I will keep you updated (if you are interested) as long as the electricity stays on.
Bubb in Melbourne, Florida
Hang in there Bubba and be safe. We will be looking to hear from you again as soon as you can get back to us. Until then, we will be thinking of you.
back alley
IMAGES
yes, i hope you stay safe also.
there will always be another day to shoot and make photos.
joe
there will always be another day to shoot and make photos.
joe
Bubba
Still learning
Thanks for the responses. It has been a wild ride. That silly storm is just sitting there. We are starting to see the occasional 70mph gust. Electricity is still on and the cable modem is intermittent. They are telling us we have at least another 24 hours of this crud. So far the house has been steady as a rock and the hurricane panels are doing their job very well.
Can you believe it? We can't get pizza delivery. I am so disappointed. Even the Chinese delivery place won't answer the phone.
Anyway, tonight should be fun. I am so looking forward to taking and sharing some shots from the new Bessa with you guys. Unfortunately, taking pictures of the storm is not an option.
Take care.
Bubba
Can you believe it? We can't get pizza delivery. I am so disappointed. Even the Chinese delivery place won't answer the phone.
Anyway, tonight should be fun. I am so looking forward to taking and sharing some shots from the new Bessa with you guys. Unfortunately, taking pictures of the storm is not an option.
Take care.
Bubba
GeneW
Veteran
Bubba, take care and I'll be watching for news that it's over. Are you there with family members?
Having never been through a hurricane before, your description gives me my first sense ever of what it can be like.
Although you can't take shots of the storm, there may be some interesting aftermath shots you could take and post on RFF.
Be safe and well,
Gene
Having never been through a hurricane before, your description gives me my first sense ever of what it can be like.
Although you can't take shots of the storm, there may be some interesting aftermath shots you could take and post on RFF.
Be safe and well,
Gene
taffer
void
Take care Bubba, and remember you and your family first, and as others say, be sure there will be time for go shoot enjoying the Bessa.
We had our own mini version of a hurricane storm here yesterday morning, seeing what that storm did, one takes notion of what a real one can do.
Albest for you and your relatives,
Oscar
We had our own mini version of a hurricane storm here yesterday morning, seeing what that storm did, one takes notion of what a real one can do.
Albest for you and your relatives,
Oscar
R
Rich Silfver
Guest
'Be careful out there'.
Fingers crossed your house will make it.
In a twisted way you have an interesting oportunity here...people barricaded in a house awaiting the storm. Boredom, tension, fear(?), anxiety. If I were you I'd load the Bessa up with some high speed film (or push it up as high as you can) and try to document all these emotions. Sneak photos of someone peering out through the shutters, take a photo of someone sitting at a table with a cup of coffee..just waiting. I would love to see the photos you can get in a situation like this. You may not think of it as a photo oportunity but it could be very interesting...
Fingers crossed your house will make it.
In a twisted way you have an interesting oportunity here...people barricaded in a house awaiting the storm. Boredom, tension, fear(?), anxiety. If I were you I'd load the Bessa up with some high speed film (or push it up as high as you can) and try to document all these emotions. Sneak photos of someone peering out through the shutters, take a photo of someone sitting at a table with a cup of coffee..just waiting. I would love to see the photos you can get in a situation like this. You may not think of it as a photo oportunity but it could be very interesting...