wyk_penguin
Well-known
Apart from using fine grain developers, is there any way that i can make my negs more/less grainy?
Wayne R. Scott
Half fast Leica User
I am not sure I understand your question. Do you want more grain in your negs? If so, try Tri-X film in Dektol paper developer for 2 min. at 68 degrees F. That should give you plenty of grain.
Wayne
Wayne
wyk_penguin
Well-known
i just want to ask for some ways to control how much grain i get.
Ways to increase and decrease grain are both welcome.
Ways to increase and decrease grain are both welcome.
Finder
Veteran
The best way is to change emulsions. Film speed is a good indicator of grain, but also different emulsions have different grain - Tri-X has larger grain than T-max. This is the main control of grain that you have.
You can also change grain by development and exposure. Granularity is a product of density, so changes in development will affect grain - agitation, time, and temperature. It is not a coincidence most "fine grain" developers are low contrast developers as well. I find changing developers have a subtle affect over grain. But the change in exposure will also affect density and therefore grain.
You can also change grain by development and exposure. Granularity is a product of density, so changes in development will affect grain - agitation, time, and temperature. It is not a coincidence most "fine grain" developers are low contrast developers as well. I find changing developers have a subtle affect over grain. But the change in exposure will also affect density and therefore grain.
Guy Mann
Member
I've been wondering about some of these questions myself. If agitation is the variable considered here, what is a good strategy for testing the results of different agitation amounts? I've only recently started really seriously developing film and have started w/ Ilford's recommendation of 4 inversions every minute. To get noticeably more grain in a given time would I want to double the inversions? Quadruple? Constant agitation? Are there any rules of thumb such as (x) amount of agitation is equal to 
amount of extra dev time or anything like that? I would imagine some film geeks out there have explored this at length and any pointers to documentation would be appreciated.
I think Kodak's default recommendation involves constant agitation for the first 30 seconds but Ilford says 4 inversions over 10 seconds at the beginning of each minute. I'm curious to know what their line of thought is in arriving at those recommendations even though they clearly aren't hard and fast rules.
amount of extra dev time or anything like that? I would imagine some film geeks out there have explored this at length and any pointers to documentation would be appreciated. I think Kodak's default recommendation involves constant agitation for the first 30 seconds but Ilford says 4 inversions over 10 seconds at the beginning of each minute. I'm curious to know what their line of thought is in arriving at those recommendations even though they clearly aren't hard and fast rules.
kmack
do your job, then let go
Agitation is primarily used to control contrast and in some cases to control density of the highlights. The type of developer/film combo and the dilution will have a greater effect on grain than agitation.
A lot of grain in black and white scans is due to grain aliasing during the scanning process. (do a search for grain aliasing lots of good posts here and on apug.)
There is also reticulation caused by temperature variation during processing.
A lot of grain in black and white scans is due to grain aliasing during the scanning process. (do a search for grain aliasing lots of good posts here and on apug.)
There is also reticulation caused by temperature variation during processing.
wyk_penguin
Well-known
I am asking this question primarily because I live in an area which I can only get HC-110 and D-76 (even Ilford Universal is rare, "don't think about Rodinal" was the answer I got from the stores). So there really isn'y much developer choice.
I believe pushing increases grain, so does pulling reduce grain? How about temperature?
I believe pushing increases grain, so does pulling reduce grain? How about temperature?
Solinar
Analog Preferred
wyk_penguin said:
Frankly, that isn't a good sign. It means that whoever runs that section of the store isn't a serious user of B/W film. If all they are stocking is Kodak, there should at least be some XTOL.
wyk_penguin said:
Generally, faster developer times, higher ratios of developer to water will reduce the grain size. There is yet another variable - temperature. Not I, but some folks have their development times worked out for a higher temp, let's say 72 degrees fahrenheit.
I keep my processing simple and rely on the Massive Dev Chart, but modified to my enlarger and inversion method.
Consequently, I don't worry about grain so much. The KISS rule has its blessings.
When I want finer grain, I half the exposure index, then shorten the development and use developer like Microphen or Microdol X. Normally, I'm pushing film and work things out in XTOL.