Newbie to folders...

thinkfloyd said:
Where else, other than ebay, can i buy CLA'd folders? Folders are pretty scant here, and I doubt no one knows how to CLA one, so I have to be sure what I get works well...
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Uh, ... actually, about half the people here know how to do them. Mostly, they are the half that wouldn't send anything to JK even on a bet. http://rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26972&highlight=certo Frankly, I have come to the conclusion that he is rude, slipshod, is less than honest and has poor taste.
 
chippy said:
its late here so i cant think that well, but beedhams has a good reputation as does Mark Harma but i cant remember his handle (ebay name), he also services folders..quite a few others as well service...
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Mark's company is Mark Hama Ltd, and he doesn't have an ebay handle. http://markhama.home.comcast.net/~markhama/ Mark specializes in Yashicas and I was never aware he did folders. I believe you're thinking of "Interslice" (Jon Goodman). He's one of the all-time greats of caemra repair, his prices are reasonable, AND he makes the very best light seal kits you can get. If the OP lives in the USA, another option might be to buy a folder in decent condition from just anybody on ebay and then send it to Essex Camera Services, in New Jersey. They do folders, among other things, and are about the best in the business for general camera repair. They do CLAs and I'd trust their work way more than C6's. Of course he could also send it to me. I'm a little more expensive than Essex, but I do a lot more than just clean the shutter.
 
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thinkfloyd said:
@Chippy: You're right about the meter, I'm sure in the long run, I'll be referring to a dedicated light meter... what I like about the Perkeo I is its size. Hmmm, it's also a Voigtlander so no question on its quality... can you direct me to some of the reputable sellers that you speak of? (I rarely use ebay, since I got ripped off once...)
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Ebay is the best place to go -- if you know what you are doing, if you are very careful, and if you can do at least some basic camera repair. Everyone else has a significant chance of getting burned. If you can't do those things, KEH (in the US), and Beedhams (in the UK) are far safer places to go.
 
FallisPhoto said:
Mark's company is Mark Hama Ltd, and he doesn't have an ebay handle. http://markhama.home.comcast.net/~markhama/ Mark specializes in Yashicas and I was never aware he did folders. I believe you're thinking of "Interslice" (Jon Goodman). He's one of the all-time greats of caemra repair, his prices are reasonable, AND he makes the very best light seal kits you can get. If the OP lives in the USA, another option might be to buy a folder in decent condition from just anybody on ebay and then send it to Essex Camera Services, in New Jersey. They do folders, among other things, and are about the best in the business for general camera repair. They do CLAs and I'd trust their work way more than C6's. Of course he could also send it to me. I'm a little more expensive than Essex, but I do a lot more than just clean the shutter.
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exactly, depending on the make and model it isnt that much more of a 'crap' shoot than purchasing from C6. the perkeos usally stand up quite well to age and often dont have much if anything wrong with them. which is why i mentioned it would be worth looking at those perkeos on the bay atm, the second one sounds in better condition but i would investigate the first (possible a bargin when they have poor pictures, also possible a disaster lol), but thats because i am confident enough that i could refurbish it to good condition and end up with a good camera.

but if not, then ask all the standard questions like does the front lens turn, does it turn smoothly, does the shutter work at all speeds, does one second sound like one second (so long as it is basically working (can be expected to be a little slow) it can be serviced with reasonable confidence), ask how the bellows appear ect ect (sometimes on the perkeos they are stiff and crackly but some leather treatment makes them supple). try to know the camera before buying one, meaning at least look and study pictures of one on the net somewhere so you can ask if all the bits and knobs are intact
 
Depending on your budget, ebay seller cupog has a Super Ikonta 533/16 with a nonfunctioning light meter currently going for $160 with one bid on it. He has done a CLA on the shutter which will save you significant cost. The Super Ikonta that I bought from him last spring works flawlessly.

If you miss the one cupog has right now, just watch his listings as he usually has one every month or two.
 
he also has a Welta Weltax with no bids as yet, starting bid about $60. these are a great camera if you cant have/afford a coupled rangefinder camera or a unit focusing camera. his is a later model (53-56) that has the east german tempor shutter and put together at the rhienmetal factory. has a couple of zeiss bumps on the back but they can be fixed easy enough. a good user camera with a coated tessar lens (better than the meritar 3 element lens also on these weltas). they are bigger than the perkeo but solid build quality and still fit in your pocket.

a no frills but reliable camera with a good lens, has parralex correction veiwfinder too. these are one of the best quality, bargin cameras you can get and often overlooked by people, based on pre-war design (put together excatly the same) by the mid 50s it was bit old technology but still popular because of its solid simple design and it now had the coated lens and flash sync and was cheap to produce in east germany and export.

so they go very cheap when you see one starting at $0.
 
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thinkfloyd said:
which do you think should I go for?
- A Mess Ikonta 6x6 with Novar lens? (uncoupled rangefinder, no light meter) or...
- A Franka Solida IIL with Xenar Lens? (no rangefinder, with uncoupled light meter)
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Some really good advice on this thread already. Just my two cents:

- The Mess Ikonta is a very nice camera, my favorite among 6x6 folders. Its compact size makes it highly pocketable and it delivers superb pictures. The price is very reasonable, even with a coated Tessar, because most people prefer the Super-Ikonta tanks. The Zeiss Tessar is sharp enough to be used wide open, that's where the rangefinder -- even if it's uncoupled -- comes in handy. A Voigtländer Perkeo IIIe might be a slightly better camera but it is so rare that it reaches insane prices when it appears for sale.

- Forget about a built-in lightmeter in a 50 years old camera. Those selenium cells are grossly inaccurate in low light and they tend to deteriorate with exposure to light. Buy a Gossen Digisix or a Voigtländer VC, stick it in the accessory shoe and forget about the selenium dinosaur.

Cheers!

Abbazz
 
Thanks for all the replies, I am learning a lot! 🙂

I'll check out cupog's ebay store... are the cameras he sells in good condition? Or do I have to have it all serviced first? Thanks!
 
You could always try searching RFF for Cupog - it can't be that common in other contexts, surely? I'm sure he's been talked about recently, and I suspect positively as well.

He's got a Werra on his ebay shop at the moment which he's describing as overhauled by himself. Most people who try overhauling one seem to be good, or crazy. I'm the latter... It's an interesting task. So he probably knows what he is doing! His feedback is good too - 2 negs in the last year, in 2500-odd sales looks an acceptable risk to me.

Adrian
 
I have two types of folder, 6x6 and 6x9.

On the 6x6, this one is quite lovely, compact, and economical:

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Non-coupled rangefinder, Agfa Solinar lens, and smooth gears.

I would highly recommend selenium powered older Sekonic for handheld meters, they are still very accurate for these folders and it's just fun to use.
 
I came to folders from 35mm SLRs after doing a lot of research and worrying about both focus and exposure issues. I did not buy any coupled rangefinder folders -- too expensive for me then. I did but mostly Zeiss Ikons, some with film advance assistance, and some Kodaks -- Monitors for their lens.

My experience (YMMV) was;

1) the simpler the camera, the better -- less to go wrong -- so now I actually prefer those without any of the later advance mechanisms -- which often require persuasion or tuning

2) the Novar lens, three elements and not a Tessar, gave me stunning chromes, I use it at f8 or smaller

3) the front element focus issue -- that degrades lens performance -- did not keep me from nice chromes -- I use it at hyperfocal distance

4) the lack of a rangefinder never became an issue, as I used hyperfocal focusing all the time -- and many (all?) Zeiss Ikons have red dots for both aperture and focus -- set it and everything from infinity to half the distance shown opposite the distance marker will be in focus.

5) the 6x9's grew on me -- large chrome.

But this brings up the issue of what you'll use them for. I use them for daylight cameras, often landscape. I have not found them useful indoors, in low light, on close and moving subjects.
 
Shadowfox apparently forgot to mention that the camera in his photo is an Ansco Speedex Special R. I agree it is a good camera. The only problems with Agfa/Ansco cameras is that the bellows almost certainly will need replacing and they were originally lubed with a type of green grease that tends to polymerize (tends to form molecular chains) over time. The lube hardens up like plastic. This means that the lens and shutter have to be disassembled, cleaned (literally scraped out), and reassembled. It can be difficult getting the lens elements to come out when you have hardened plastic in the threads. Then you have to recollimate the lens. Since over 90% of the recollimation jobs were done by amateurs, just using invisible tape and their best judgement, only god knows how accurately it will have been done. On the other hand, once these problems have been taken care of, it is a truely first-class shooter, and you can occasionally find them going for just $20 or so.
 
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FallisPhoto said:
Shadowfox apparently forgot to mention that the camera in his photo is an Ansco Speedex Special R. I agree it is a good camera. The only problems with Agfa/Ansco cameras is that the bellows almost certainly will need replacing and they were originally lubed with a type of green grease that tends to polymerize (tends to form molecular chains) over time. The lube hardens up like plastic. This means that the lens and shutter have to be disassembled, cleaned (literally scraped out), and reassembled. It can be difficult getting the lens elements to come out when you have hardened plastic in the threads. Then you have to recollimate the lens. Since over 90% of the recollimation jobs were done by amateurs, just using invisible tape and their best judgement, only god knows how accurately it will have been done. On the other hand, once these problems have been taken care of, it is a truely first-class shooter, and you can occasionally find them going for just $20 or so.
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What? mention the above and rob thinkfloyd from the joy of the excitement of reviving an old classic to splendid working condition? 😉

What you said is absolutely true though, my Speedex Special has gunked focussing, I sent it to a gentleman who really have a passion in restoring these beauties (not JK). He re-lubed the lens, and even replaced the bellow just because. And I had the pleasure to make a contact and hear his stories.

To me, that's part of the joy of owning these classics.
 
shadowfox said:
What? mention the above and rob thinkfloyd from the joy of the excitement of reviving an old classic to splendid working condition? 😉

What you said is absolutely true though, my Speedex Special has gunked focussing, I sent it to a gentleman who really have a passion in restoring these beauties (not JK). He re-lubed the lens, and even replaced the bellow just because. And I had the pleasure to make a contact and hear his stories.

To me, that's part of the joy of owning these classics.
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Me too. I love my Agfas and Anscos. They are not cameras you can pick up on ebay and just start using though. I've never seen one straight from ebay that didn't need work -- and I have bought and sold many Isolettes and Records over the years. You have to learn how to fix the things up. Once you do, and have learned a few of the tricks of the trade, you get a first class shooter with probably more bang for your buck than anything else I can think of (at least in a folder).
 
I've never bought a folder that didn't need some kind of attention. I received a absolutely beautiful Super Ikonta that functioned as new except that when I checked the shutter it was out quite a bit. All my folding cameras needed the shutters cleaned and adjusted.
Nice to have a shutter tester.
 
Reading all this, it seems that whatever I get, I will definitely have to learn to condition it by myself... no biggie, as long as you guys help me and guide me through the process 😉

I just bid on this Weltax in ebay, it has a day to go, but the price is still cheap... I hope I win the bid 🙂 It says it's in good working condition. What do you guys think? If ever I win, and I'll need to do some "CLA-ing" I hope you guys would help me! 🙂
 
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So now we all get to hold our breath and wait and see if you win!! 😀😀

and then wait in antisipation if it is in good working condition 😉
we get the excitement but it doesnt cost us anything.

your braver than me, i never tell anyone what i am after because i worry someone will pinch it LOL
best of luck
 
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I had a similar one as my first Welta. And after using it for a while I upgraded to a Weltur ones. But even simple ones like the one you are bidding on are great. Mine had a Xenar lens and here is a photo I still have from it:


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So, Good luck!
 
thinkfloyd said:
Reading all this, it seems that whatever I get, I will definitely have to learn to condition it by myself... no biggie, as long as you guys help me and guide me through the process 😉

I just bid on this Weltax in ebay from Cupog, it has a day to go, but the price is still cheap... I hope I win the bid 🙂 It says it's in good working condition. What do you guys think? If ever I win, and I'll need to do some "CLA-ing" I hope you guys would help me! 🙂
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Just for future reference: Every single time I have mentioned a camera I was buying, on any forum, someone has sniped it out from under me at the last second. It has happened enough times that I can't help but think that there is a cause and effect relationship. My advice would be to talk about it on the forums after you win it. Otherwise, by posting something about it, you are just showing a whole bunch of rabid, drooling, camera fanatics (all with acute gear aquisition syndrome), where there's a good deal to be had on a helpless camera. One other thing: did you notice the postage and item location?
 
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