News: Japan's Olympus sees profits plunge on weak digital camera sales

[sf]

surprise

surprise

or not.

They mis identified their market. Totally. With the E300 and that other one. And actually, a bunch of their others too. The way I see it, there are three basic markets. The digicam crowd (p&s), the DSLR crowd, and digital back crowd. I think they were working on a niche market that was never really there, or which morphed back into the DSLR/digicam market when things got better.

That is just my opinion. I mean, when i consider Olumpus' digital endeavors, they don't stand out as being serious contenders in any market. Sony, Fuji, Canon have nailed the digicams totally. Olympus weighs in there somewhere reasonable. And Nikon probably ahead of Olympus. And the DSLRs are Fuji/Nikon/Canon, with Nikon on top, followed by Canon and then Minolta, then Fuji. Olympus' non-p&s products are sort of outliers, sort of on the fringes of the proven market, or what the majority of buyers want, and their image quality is not that good either. Fringe or niche markets like the one for the RD-1, the Lumix, etc., those are legitimate and are built on long standing markets from the film era. While Olympus has devotees, they didn't produce a camera that has any standing when compared with the others in the game. They didn't produce a DSLR and that market is preparing to take off. They missed that boat. Their p&s cameras are pretty decent though, but I am not a fan of that breed in general, any brand.

This is my opinion only, I have used the Oly digitals, and as far as the DSLRs (weakly applied categorization) go, there is nothing really there.

 

[sf]

I think they played two gambles with their 4/3 System:


So, here is Olympus, hoping for a chunk of the DSLR market, but without a legacy AF lens mount or a user base to drag along into DSLR territory. So they took a gamble and decided to try to poach other SLR maker's users, and even entice them into joining into the game, with the so-called 'open standard' 4/3 system.


Bill Mattocks

Bill makes a good point here. They have no market. The DSLR market is built on the 35mm market that precedes it and within which its potential buyers wait to jump on the digi-wagon. Olympus never built a place in that market, and so has little weight to throw around now. And those ZLR types, yeah, that is what they do best, and that is a major aspect of the p&s digicam design, so that is where they are likely to stay.

I say, Nikon is on top of the world with their practical design, reliability, everything. The D70 is to DSLRs what the IPOD is to the portable music market. Nikon nailed it. hard. Perfectly balanced design. ANd Canon did too, actually. Their product and their grip on the market, their sense of the direction of the market is too keen to beat. Olympus should duck and run while they can, just as Kodak did, and stick to what they do best.

 

[Toby]

I think we have to look at the computer market to see how the long term digicam market will pan out. We'll get one "microsoft" (probably canon) one "apple" ( probably nikon or sony) and everyone else will just license out the technology. The advantages that canon are getting by being no 1 ( fast evolution of product =a new Eos evry 10 minutes) mean they will outstrip everyone technology wise. If the PC market can only support 2 major chipmakers -AMD and Intel -why should the digicam market be any different?

 

[RJBender]

> This is happening probably beause Olympus makes crappy digi cams

That is the consensus in my office. One friend recently upgraded from a 2MPixel Oly P&S that he and his wife liked to a 5MPixel model. The latency between pressing the button and taking the picture made it useless for getting shots of their kids. He was amazed, the older camera reacted "fairly" quickly. The new one took almost 1 second. He turned off red-eye reduction. They bought a different camera and will not buy an Olympus again.

Progress means making things better, not just adding more pixels.

Now I need the model number so I can read the review at http://www.dpreview.com. Was the camera packaged in a blister pack or a box? Plastic packaging tells me the item is "disposable" for some reason. I wouldn't expect wonders from any brand of digicam packaged in a plastic bubble.

I have an Olympus E20 that's too slow for most users. The PC sync terminal and pixel mapping make up for its slowness IMO. MSRP was $1999. I paid $575 for my E20 in LN (like new) condition last year. If you're looking for a cheap E10 or E20 check out KEH Camera.

Do any of you digicam users have problems with "hot" or "dead" pixels? I don't.

I'd like to have a Nikon with a Foveon sensor. Sigma makes the only DSLR with a Foveon sensor AFAIK. http://www.dpreview.com/news/0202/02021101foveonx3.asp

If people wait, they get better deals. I'm glad I didn't get the Canon 20D. The Nikon D200 will be a better deal for me.

R.J.

 

[Richard Black]

[/QUOTE]
If people wait, they get better deals. I'm glad I didn't get the Canon 20D. The Nikon D200 will be a better deal for me.
R.J.[/QUOTE]

This seems to be the predominant issue that keeps me from buying a dSLR. What will they do next, how much cheaper will it be, or something to that effect. :bang:

I bought a K-M Z2 last year and have been pleased with it as a p&s but am looking for more control. However, since last year K-M has produced a Z20. Z3, Z5, and now a Z6. All variations on the Z10 with increases in pixels.

To bring this back on r/fs, Leica introduced the M series in the 1950's and are now at the 6th "upgrade" (now purists let's not bicker), and it took just over 50 years to do it! I can buy a M2 today if I prefer the simplest approach to photograhy or an M7 with all the bells... I hesitate to buy a dSLR because I fear it will be obsolete within 3-5 years because the manufacturer keeps turning out upgraded models. Am I making sense? Could we have a dSLR that is upgradeable? Do we really care? 😕

 

[ywenz]

What olympus p&s would you want to buy with all the better sony and canons models out there. Would you buy an olympus DSLR when Canon and Nikon offers much superior models with much wider range of lense options? Olympus has nothing on the digital camera market simply becaus they make inferior products.

 

[bmattock]

I have an Olympus E20 that's too slow for most users. The PC sync terminal and pixel mapping make up for its slowness IMO. MSRP was $1999. I paid $575 for my E20 in LN (like new) condition last year. If you're looking for a cheap E10 or E20 check out KEH Camera.

I really wanted one, not least of which was the optical viewfinder versus the evf that most of the bridge digicams have. The price dropped on the DSLR I wanted also before the price ever really came down on the E20 past the $500 / $600 mark, so I never got one. I have much respect for them, though. They were so good, the prices never really hit rock bottom on them.

I'd like to have a Nikon with a Foveon sensor. Sigma makes the only DSLR with a Foveon sensor AFAIK. http://www.dpreview.com/news/0202/02021101foveonx3.asp

If people wait, they get better deals. I'm glad I didn't get the Canon 20D. The Nikon D200 will be a better deal for me.
R.J.

I like the Foveon technology, unfortunately it is underfunded by a college professor's venture capital company and R&D is not what it should be, IMHO. They need to get way ahead of the curve and introduce a massive megapixel with the three layers, because the technology of the foveon is sound, just not the image size currently.

I think Nikons are cool, but I like to shoot old M42 prime lenses, and Nikon's flange-to-film distance means no infinity focus, so that's a deal-breaker for me.

Canon was next on my list for a DSLR, most everyone makes mounts to fit dang near everything except the Canon FD mount to the Canon EF mount cameras, but sadly, the one I could afford had a mirror box instead of a pentaprism, and I focus manually and need more light.

So, I got the Pentax *ist DS and I've been quite happy with it.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[bmattock]

I hesitate to buy a dSLR because I fear it will be obsolete within 3-5 years because the manufacturer keeps turning out upgraded models. Am I making sense? Could we have a dSLR that is upgradeable? Do we really care? 😕[/QUOTE]

You would be correct, they will be completely obsolete in much less than 3 years. I have one and I know it will be eclipsed within two years by newer and much more capable models. It will still be good for what I want it for, though.

We are no longer buying into a mature technology platform where incremental changes are made. This is a paradigm more like that of PC's, where changes render the older models hopelessly outdated every six months or so.

But few replace their computers every six months. What happens is, people wait for the price / performance to hit the mark they feel comfortable with, jump on, and ride it until they find another mark to aim at in a couple of years.

There will be no more 'twenty year' cameras, like my Canon FTbN. They aren't built to last that long, and they won't. And at this point, no one wants them to.

A DSLR built to the standards necessary to make them durable over the long run would cost so much that no one would buy it.

Someday, perhaps, the worm will turn and the technology will mature - changes will again be incremental. Then we can turn again to quality of manufacture instead of speed of technology.

For now, the things I value in a DSLR keep getting better - faster AF, shorter shot-to-shot times, better battery life, bettery LCD view screen, more and faster storage, more megapixels, larger image sensors, etc, etc - and the prices keep dropping. Keep a lens mount that allows me to screw on a Pentax M42 from 1967, and I'm pretty happy.

We were on a plateau for a long, long, time. Now we're climbing the hill again, really fast. Enjoy the ride!

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[elcud35rc]

ywenz quote:
"What olympus p&s would you want to buy with all the better sony and canons models out there. Would you buy an olympus DSLR when Canon and Nikon offers much superior models with much wider range of lense options? Olympus has nothing on the digital camera market simply becaus they make inferior products."

I used to use a Camedia C-50 zoom. It was a 5mp camera, but it had features that were far inferior to a 3mp sony I had.

-the clock rests every time you take out the battery to charge it. Sony doesn't rest-It does not reset until you manually rest the camera yourself.
-can easily shut down. The lens cover is turns on/off camera. Sony acutally has a POWER BUTTON.
-turning off the flash makes the shutter speed go down to VERY low shutter speeds. The sony went to a minimum of 1/30 of a second without flash.
Flash is ALWAYS required for low light conditions or there will be blur.
-Movie mode is very short, low quailty, and no sound-at best quality. Sony is limited to your memory stick size, much better quality, and has sound.

These are what made me turn away from this camera and Olympus DIGITAL cameras. But I have a Olympus rangefinder.
Sony has better features and I enoy them much better than Olympus.

 

[RJBender]

What olympus p&s would you want to buy with all the better sony and canons models out there. Would you buy an olympus DSLR when Canon and Nikon offers much superior models with much wider range of lense options? Olympus has nothing on the digital camera market simply becaus they make inferior products.

I've read reviews on Olympus, Sony, Nikon and Canon P&S models as well as user opinions. Each has its pros and cons. In your two posts, you haven't stated any facts to support your conclusion that Olympus products are inferior crap. Why not? 😕

R.J.

 

[RJBender]

ywenz quote:
"What olympus p&s would you want to buy with all the better sony and canons models out there. Would you buy an olympus DSLR when Canon and Nikon offers much superior models with much wider range of lense options? Olympus has nothing on the digital camera market simply becaus they make inferior products."

I used to use a Camedia C-50 zoom. It was a 5mp camera, but it had features that were far inferior to a 3mp sony I had.

-the clock rests every time you take out the battery to charge it. Sony doesn't rest-It does not reset until you manually rest the camera yourself.
-can easily shut down. The lens cover is turns on/off camera. Sony acutally has a POWER BUTTON.
-turning off the flash makes the shutter speed go down to VERY low shutter speeds. The sony went to a minimum of 1/30 of a second without flash.
Flash is ALWAYS required for low light conditions or there will be blur.
-Movie mode is very short, low quailty, and no sound-at best quality. Sony is limited to your memory stick size, much better quality, and has sound.

These are what made me turn away from this camera and Olympus DIGITAL cameras. But I have a Olympus rangefinder.
Sony has better features and I enoy them much better than Olympus.

My sister has a Nikon P&S that I don't like but that's not going to stop me from buying a Nikon D200. Like I said earlier, I wouldn't expect wonders from any brand of digicam packaged in a blister pack. 😉

R.J.

 

[ch1]

> This is happening probably beause Olympus makes crappy digi cams

That is the consensus in my office. One friend recently upgraded from a 2MPixel Oly P&S that he and his wife liked to a 5MPixel model. The latency between pressing the button and taking the picture made it useless for getting shots of their kids. He was amazed, the older camera reacted "fairly" quickly. The new one took almost 1 second. He turned off red-eye reduction. They bought a different camera and will not buy an Olympus again.

Progress means making things better, not just adding more pixels.

Brian...This is OT but I had the opportunity to view your gallery last night. Your daughter is a charmer. The action shots capture joy and the "posed" ones display a real sense of "model's" poise.

Did you coach her not to look at the camera for the posed shots?

She seems a natural. Super models make big buckos - maybe she'll agree to support you some day! 😉

Regards,
George

 

[RJBender]

I'm not upgrading my Digital camera until Nikon comes out with another Full-Frame Digital SLR camera that gives me ISO 3200. Nikon E4. It's time has come.

http://dslrexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193

I like the 3200 ASA option, Brian. There doesn't seem to be any noise in that photo of your daughter, Nikki. The 1.4 megapixel image looks soft but you said the lens was stuck open at f/1.4, right? How does the image hold up when you do a bicubic resample?

R.J.

 

[ywenz]

My sister has a Nikon P&S that I don't like but that's not going to stop me from buying a Nikon D200. Like I said earlier, I wouldn't expect wonders from any brand of digicam packaged in a blister pack. 😉

R.J.

That's sort of irrelevant because the best offerings from Canon and Nikon blows out the doors out of the best offerings from Olympus. The margin of error in this market is extrememyl small. Now we've seen the result of Olympus' line up of inferior cameras, in the form of lost revenue

 

[RJBender]

That's sort of irrelevant because the best offerings from Canon and Nikon blows out the doors out of the best offerings from Olympus. The margin of error in this market is extrememyl small. Now we've seen the result of Olympus' line up of inferior cameras, in the form of lost revenue

Yang, I had quoted elcud35rc who said his bad experience with the Olympus C-50 was

what made me turn away from this camera and Olympus DIGITAL cameras.

I don't like my sister's Nikon P&S digicam but that won't stop me from buying Nikon digital cameras in the future. 😉

Take another look at the article:

In the first half, global sales of digital cameras dropped by nearly 14 percent to 3.7 million units as Olympus moved to streamline its product line-up, shifting away from unprofitable compact-type digital cameras.

There's no profit in compact digi cams for Olympus.

All I'm saying is check out DPREVIEW for sample images and specs. It sounds like you already have your mind made up that Olympus products are crap. However, you haven't given us any examples of your personal experience with Olympus products. 😕 When you keep insisting that Olympus products are "crap" you're saying more about yourself than you are about Olympus. 🙁

R.J.

 

[Nikon Bob]

Yeah, Oly has crappy compact digitals. Do you think?

Bob

 

[Trius]

<rant>Even at a "mere 5MP", images out of the E-1 are very, very nice. Good colour, good dynamic range, and lenses that are more capable than the sensor. I liked the feel of the E-300, but haven't handled the E-500 yet, which has some improvements to image quality, as I read the reviews and look at images.

I don't like the look of Canon images no matter how many bazillion megapixels and what size sensor. Not necessarily horrible, but not compelling. IMO, this whole megapixel and high ISO crap is just that ... horse hockey.

No, I'm not married to Olympus for my digital future. I have a C2000 right now (pretty basic 2.1MP dinosaur), and it does OK for snaps and oBoy shots. But the whole market hasn't shaken out yet. People I respect find the E-1 as comfortable and easy to use an OM. I find that hard to fathom, but they are the ones with the E-1, and I haven't used it, so who am I to judge/naysay?

My preference would be for a digital RF, such as an R-D2 or ZI-D. Hell, I'd take an OM-5D in a second ... simple controls, multi-spot metering and that big, bright beautiful viewfinder. No one's making that right now, so a pox on all their houses until someone gets it right.

Trius </rant>
Give me Zuiko or give me death

 

[bmattock]

http://www.podcastingnews.com/archives/2005/11/olympus_bails_o.html

Olympus Bails Out of MP3 Player Market
November 09, 2005

Japan's Olympus has announced that it would halt production of portable digital music players. It was unable to keep up with Sony and Apple in the fast-growing market.

The move follows the demise of the Rio player line, and 100's of Chinese MP3 manufacturers.

Olympus is the world's fourth best-selling digital camera brand after Canon Inc., Sony and Eastman Kodak, but is considered one of the weaker players in an industry suffering from slowing growth and steep price falls.

 

[bmattock]

Well, this sounds pretty cool. I use my Pentax *ist DS with MF lenses all the time, focusing could be a tad easier. Something like this would be most welcome!

Olympus UK Announces ME-1 Eyecup Magnifier

http://www.digitalcameratracker.com/archives/2005/11/09/olympus-announces-me1-eyecup-magnifier.html

Nov 09 - 09:46 AM PT

Olympus UK Press Release:

Olympus announces the Magnifier Eyecup ME-1, which will increase the viewfinder performance of the recently-launched E-500 by providing views 1.2 times larger than normal.

Just attach the ME-1 eyecup magnifier to enjoy an even better view of your subject, significantly enhancing easy focusing and framing.

The eyecup incorporates two lenses and measures 40 mm x 30 mm x 12mm. Available from December 2005 at a price to be confirmed, the ME-1 also fits onto the E-500’s forerunner, the Olympus E-300.

 

[RJBender]

Olympus is the world's fourth best-selling digital camera brand after Canon Inc., Sony and Eastman Kodak, but is considered one of the weaker players in an industry suffering from slowing growth and steep price falls.

Olympus sells more digicams than Nikon??? Kodak sells more than Olympus???

R.J.