douglasf13
Well-known
Hi. I apologize to those who've seen this on another forum. After comparing the CV 15 on the NEX-5 and NEX-5N in this thread,http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1747590&postcount=103, I decided to give it a go with my ZM 35/2. This test was difficult, because, despite using the same exposure for each, the major difference in illumination across the frame made it tough to get the two files to look similar. These were processed in LR3 with default settings, except for exposure comp. to even out the exposures, as well as using the WB tool in the same place on each photo. The color and illumination differences are still quite noticeable, as you can see, but I didn't want to process the files too much. I had to raise the exp. comp of the NEX-5 by 1.71 EV so that the centers of both images were exposed similarly.
NEX-5, ISO 200, 1/3200, f2:
NEX-5N, ISO 200, 1/3200, f2:
NEX-5 top right crop:
NEX-5N top right crop:
NEX-5 top left crop:
NEX-5N top left crop:
NEX-5 bottom left crop:
NEX-5N bottom left crop:
Although not as drastic as with the CV 15/4.5, it seems to me that the sensor differences between the NEX-5 and NEX-5N extend to beyond only the wider angle rangefinder lenses. What do you think?
note* With these shots, I made sure that the corners were as in-focus as they could be, and infinity was the best focus for all corners. Also, the contrast of the NEX-5 shot can be deceiving, especially in the top right crop. If I add around .75 EV of vignetting to the NEX-5N photo, it results in similar contrast. The evenness of the illumination on the NEX-5N is MUCH better, it seems.
NEX-5, ISO 200, 1/3200, f2:
NEX-5N, ISO 200, 1/3200, f2:
NEX-5 top right crop:
NEX-5N top right crop:
NEX-5 top left crop:
NEX-5N top left crop:
NEX-5 bottom left crop:
NEX-5N bottom left crop:
Although not as drastic as with the CV 15/4.5, it seems to me that the sensor differences between the NEX-5 and NEX-5N extend to beyond only the wider angle rangefinder lenses. What do you think?
note* With these shots, I made sure that the corners were as in-focus as they could be, and infinity was the best focus for all corners. Also, the contrast of the NEX-5 shot can be deceiving, especially in the top right crop. If I add around .75 EV of vignetting to the NEX-5N photo, it results in similar contrast. The evenness of the illumination on the NEX-5N is MUCH better, it seems.
Mrbessar4a
Member
Measurbating this much will grow hair on your optics.
douglasf13
Well-known
Thanks for the constructive critique. Keep in mind that I had to raise exposure comp. significantly to get the NEX-5 shot to look even this good, despite the fact that the two cameras were exposed identically. The NEX-5 sensor shows significantly more vignetting than the NEX-5N sensor, which I'd say is interesting to many of us.
uhoh7
Veteran
LOL
Great douglas. Would love to see the centers too
Obviously the 5n is both sharper and alot cleaner--wow noise diference is striking.
Mine should be here friday
douglasf13
Well-known
Hi. The noise difference is tough with these shots, because, despite setting the same exposure in camera, the difference in vignetting varied pretty wildly, so the noise in the door crop is particularly bad on the NEX-5, since it was so dark in the original shot.
Here are the center crops. The NEX-5 seems slightly sharper in the middle, but differences in exposure comp. and contrast lead me to believe that the difference is slight, if any.
NEX-5:
NEX-5N:
Here are the center crops. The NEX-5 seems slightly sharper in the middle, but differences in exposure comp. and contrast lead me to believe that the difference is slight, if any.
NEX-5:
NEX-5N:
uhoh7
Veteran
muy muy interestante, mien herr....
again under the roof noise is big diff.
but as you mentioned, n5 seems sharper on the roof.
Look like if you bring up NR a tad on the 5, they'd be equal
wonder what would happen if the n5n went to ISO 100...
like butter on toast i bet
again under the roof noise is big diff.
but as you mentioned, n5 seems sharper on the roof.
Look like if you bring up NR a tad on the 5, they'd be equal
wonder what would happen if the n5n went to ISO 100...
like butter on toast i bet
douglasf13
Well-known
So I dug out another set of files that I took within seconds apart yesterday, as well as a set of pics with a tissue over the lens, as if I'm making a CornerFix profile. The ISOs of each camera are said by DxO Mark to be the same, so I think what we're seeing is a drastic difference in the way the sensor receives light with the near-symmetrical 35mm Biogon, which is significant, because we're not just talking really wide M lenses anymore. I can repeat the difference over and over again. The following files are raws from LR3 with identical settings and exposures:
NEX-5:
NEX-5N:
NEX-5:
NEX-5N:
NEX-5:
NEX-5N:
NEX-5:
NEX-5N:
douglasf13
Well-known
I guess another reason that they are so wildly off is that LR3 could have different base line exposure compensations for the two cameras, or one of my cameras has a problem. Interesting.
uhoh7
Veteran
I'm sure you checked that little contrast thingy on the picture mode--in camera
douglasf13
Well-known
What do you mean? Picture mode settings do not affect raw files, unless you're using Sony IDC, which reads the exif tags and applies it after the fact.
uhoh7
Veteran
Are you sure about that? WB settings etc are read, I'd be surprised if it did not default to your sat/sharpness/contrast settings in LR. But I'm no authority---be easy to check, tweak them like crazy and see if it shows up when you import into LR.
After all LR now reads the special Sony RAWs---and it knows the in-camera WB.....
douglasf13
Well-known
Yep, I'm pretty sure. I've owned 5 different Alpha cameras, and it's the same with each. Creative Style, high ISO NR (except with the first couple A700 firmwares,) DRO, etc. all only affect the jpegs of the camera. Only white balance is read by non-Sony raw converters. I've used both LR3 and RPP to test this, and it's the same with both. Try shooting in B&W mode and then opening the raw in LR3. It's still in color.
p.s. LR3 does recognize the 16:9 ratio tag, but RPP doesn't.
douglasf13
Well-known
After spending more time reviewing these files, I believe that there is something wrong with my exposure on the first two shots. As pointed out to me on another forum, it seems the tone curve of the 5N is quite different, so adjusting brightness of the NEX-5 gets the centers close, although it still has much more vignetting on the periphery.
I am deleting the first two pics to avoid confusion, but the rest of the pics still look correct.
I am deleting the first two pics to avoid confusion, but the rest of the pics still look correct.
ampguy
Veteran
Hi Douglas, thanks for these tests, very interesting. I think dxo mark rates the ISO sensitivity of the 5N at about 25% better than the 5 regular (1079 vs 796 scores).
douglasf13
Well-known
I think you're looking at snr, which is a different thing. With the recommendation of another forum, I've figured out that it looks like the tone curve of the raw files between the two cameras is different. If I add +38 to brightness of the Nex-5, it equals things out well. However, the 5 still has more vignetting, smearing and color shift with this lens.
Moriturii
Well-known
I can only see two pictures in this thread, all other pictures are "unavailable"