Nikkor 50mm/5cm recommendations with Leica M11/M6TTl + Amedeo

[Roel]

I hope to receive a nice Amedeo adapter for Nikon/LeicaM (and a Contax to LeicaM) soon. Looking for a 'well behaved' character lens to add to the palette.. and use maybe also on commercial (like wedding and portrait) shoots. I have already VC 40mm 1.4, Summicron 35mm v4, Summicron 50mm v4 and clean Summar+Summarit LTM lenses. Need the lens to work in Color and BW.

Was thinking about Leica Summilux 50mm pre Asph but got into the Nikkor S 50mm 1.4 lenses when strolling the forum.

I am still a bit dazzled to which 5cm version brings what to the table.. Like how important is the C in S.C? Does it bring a lot or is the state of the lens more important. Should I straight away look for a 50mm 1.4 millennium version that is more well behaved? Or would I be happy with a nice clean 5cm s.c version? and Contax?

Very interested in your opinions on which lens to look for. Added pics for reference would be great.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

If you want well-behaved, get the Millenium Nikkor.

If you want the Wild Sonnar Look that can produce crazy Bokeh- for for the original Sonnar version 5cm F1.4.
If you want a well-behaves Sonnar formula lens, get the 5cm F2 Nikkor.

The West German 50mm F1.5 Sonnar is the one to get for the Contax to Leica adapter.

 

[Bingley]

I have the Zeiss Opton Sonnar 50 in both f1.5 and f2.0 versions (the post-war West German lenses made for Contax); I use them regularly on Leica M-mount cameras w/ an Amedeo adapter and on LTM cameras w/ a Kipon adapter. I also have a later version of the Nikkor-SC 5cm f1.4 that I also shoot regularly w/ Amedeo adapters on Leica M-mount cameras (there are two such adapters: one that mounts 50mm SC lenses only, and the other that mounts both internal and external SC mount lenses (e.g. the Nikkor-PC 8.5mm f2.0)). Never shot the Millenium Nikkor.

Of the three Sonnar variants in Contax or SC mount, my favorite (much to my surprise) is the Zeiss Opton Sonnar 5 cm f2.0. It doesn’t get the attention that the f1.5 version receives, but man does it have impressive resolving power! I’ve shot it on Nikon, Contax, M-mount, and LTM rangefinders, and am impressed w/ the details it picks up. My copy may even be a little sharper stopped down that the 1.5 version. If you don’t need f1.5 or 1.4, and have your adapter lined up, then I’d recommend looking for a copy; it may cost less than the 1.5 Sonnar.

My next favorite is the Nikkor-SC 5cm f1.4. Famous for shooting wide open and close up, it also works very well stopped down for landscape photos.

One lens you don’t mention, which arguably beats them all, is the modern Zeiss C-Sonnar 50mm f1.5. Since this lens comes in M-mount, you don’t need to worry about adapters. You get beautiful Sonnar character wide open, and the lovely Zeiss punch as well stopped down. It’s a beautiful lens w/ both color and BW (actually, ALL Sonnars excel w/ color).

I have albums on my Flickr devoted to each of these lenses, but here’s a sample for you:

Zeiss Opton Sonnar 5cm f2.0, shot on a Leica IIIc w/ a Kipon adapter:

Late winter on the beach by Steve Macfarlane, on Flickr

Zeiss Opton Sonnar 5cm f1.5, wide open, shot on a Contax IIa:

Steve A. by Steve Macfarlane, on Flickr

Nikkor-SC 5cm f1.4, shot on a Nikon S2:

Pandemic Gothic by Steve Macfarlane, on Flickr

Zeiss C-Sonnar 50mm f1.5, shot wide open on a Leica M-E 240:

Figs by Steve Macfarlane, on Flickr

 

[Coldkennels]

Zeiss Opton Sonnar 5cm f2.0, shot on a Leica IIIc w/ a Kipon adapter:

Late winter on the beach by Steve Macfarlane, on Flickr

Oof. This is making me want to track down an LTM Amadeo or Kipon adapter again. I love my Zeiss Jena 50/1.5 Sonnar but using the Contax it's wedded to drives me insane.

 

[maartenmoerman]

The zeiss opton 5cm/f2 is indeed quite underrated, and also one of my favorites, both on digital and film, very much recommended.

 

[brusby]

Was thinking about Leica Summilux 50mm pre Asph but got into the Nikkor S 50mm 1.4 lenses when strolling the forum.

I am still a bit dazzled to which 5cm version brings what to the table.. Like how important is the C in S.C? Does it bring a lot or is the state of the lens more important.

50mm Summilux pre Asph is very nice. Clearer wide open than Nikkor SC 5cm f1.4.

50mm Summilux pre Asph @ f1.4, Leica M9
L1001368 by Brusby, on Flickr

On the Nikkors, the "C" just means coated and was a selling point in early versions of the lens. But as coatings became the rule rather than the exception the "C" was omitted from the name.

The Nikkor H 50mm f2 ltm is one of my fav lenses and is coated.

1950's Nikkor H 50mm f2 black belt LTM
_OSR4332 by Brusby, on Flickr

Regarding the differences between f2 and f1.4 or f1.5 versions, it's easier for a lens manufacturer to correct slower lenses, particularly in the corners. For landscapes or wherever detail and punchiness are important, I usually prefer f2 or slower lenses. Plus they are often smaller, lighter and easier to carry. For portraits where a bit of softness can be a plus, faster lenses often work well and can give a bit of glow wide open.

I have both the Nikkor 5cm f2 and f1.4 in LTM. Looking at Steve's beautiful images above, his Zeiss f1.5 lenses seem clearer and more contrasty wide open than my Nikkor at f1.4, which is slightly veiled by aberrations at the widest aperture. The Nikkor f1.4 is softer and lower contrast at f1.4, but cleans up nicely at f2 and beyond. It's corners are never quite as sharp as the f2 version.

 

[lukx]

Zeiss Opton Sonnar 5cm f1.5, wide open, shot on a Contax IIa:

Steve A. by Steve Macfarlane, on Flickr

This is a very nice shot, but I think the smoothness of the bokeh and depth of field suggest it's slightly stopped down, to f2-ish maybe.

In my experience from using several Zeiss, Nikon and Canon Sonnars of the 30s thru 50s they're rather funky wide open but can be tamed by stopping down a little. They're all nice lenses.

 

[Roel]

I have the Zeiss Opton Sonnar 50 in both f1.5 and f2.0 versions (the post-war West German lenses made for Contax); I use them regularly on Leica M-mount cameras w/ an Amedeo adapter and on LTM cameras w/ a Kipon adapter. I also have a later version of the Nikkor-SC 5cm f1.4 that I also shoot regularly w/ Amedeo adapters on Leica M-mount cameras (there are two such adapters: one that mounts 50mm SC lenses only, and the other that mounts both internal and external SC mount lenses (e.g. the Nikkor-PC 8.5mm f2.0)). Never shot the Millenium Nikkor.

Of the three Sonnar variants in Contax or SC mount, my favorite (much to my surprise) is the Zeiss Opton Sonnar 5 cm f2.0. It doesn’t get the attention that the f1.5 version receives, but man does it have impressive resolving power! I’ve shot it on Nikon, Contax, M-mount, and LTM rangefinders, and am impressed w/ the details it picks up. My copy may even be a little sharper stopped down that the 1.5 version. If you don’t need f1.5 or 1.4, and have your adapter lined up, then I’d recommend looking for a copy; it may cost less than the 1.5 Sonnar.

My next favorite is the Nikkor-SC 5cm f1.4. Famous for shooting wide open and close up, it also works very well stopped down for landscape photos.

One lens you don’t mention, which arguably beats them all, is the modern Zeiss C-Sonnar 50mm f1.5. Since this lens comes in M-mount, you don’t need to worry about adapters. You get beautiful Sonnar character wide open, and the lovely Zeiss punch as well stopped down. It’s a beautiful lens w/ both color and BW (actually, ALL Sonnars excel w/ color).

I have albums on my Flickr devoted to each of these lenses, but here’s a sample for you:

Zeiss Opton Sonnar 5cm f2.0, shot on a Leica IIIc w/ a Kipon adapter:

Late winter on the beach by Steve Macfarlane, on Flickr

Zeiss Opton Sonnar 5cm f1.5, wide open, shot on a Contax IIa:

Steve A. by Steve Macfarlane, on Flickr

Nikkor-SC 5cm f1.4, shot on a Nikon S2:

Pandemic Gothic by Steve Macfarlane, on Flickr

Zeiss C-Sonnar 50mm f1.5, shot wide open on a Leica M-E 240:

Figs by Steve Macfarlane, on Flickr

Wow steve, thank you very much for your view+thoughts and the added photo's.

I like all the examples you showed and can see why you like the Zeiss sonnars F2 (and 1.5) Will have to look closer at these Contax and Nikon f2 lenses. What is your experience with the F1.4 lenses. Do they add the softer glow characters and are they equal at f2/f2.8/f4?

 

[Sonnar Brian]

1952 KMZ Jupiter-3, originally in Contax Mount.
Wide-Open.



At F2,



A good KMZ J-3 compares with the Wartime Sonnars.
I prefer the KMZ J-3 over the Nikkor 5cm F1.4 Sonnar formula lens.

 

[Roel]

50mm Summilux pre Asph is very nice. Clearer wide open than Nikkor SC 5cm f1.4.

50mm Summilux pre Asph @ f1.4, Leica M9
L1001368 by Brusby, on Flickr

On the Nikkors, the "C" just means coated and was a selling point in early versions of the lens. But as coatings became the rule rather than the exception the "C" was omitted from the name.

The Nikkor H 50mm f2 ltm is one of my fav lenses and is coated.

1950's Nikkor H 50mm f2 black belt LTM
_OSR4332 by Brusby, on Flickr

Regarding the differences between f2 and f1.4 or f1.5 versions, it's easier for a lens manufacturer to correct slower lenses, particularly in the corners. For landscapes or wherever detail and punchiness are important, I usually prefer f2 or slower lenses. Plus they are often smaller, lighter and easier to carry. For portraits where a bit of softness can be a plus, faster lenses often work well and can give a bit of glow wide open.

I have both the Nikkor 5cm f2 and f1.4 in LTM. Looking at Steve's beautiful images above, his Zeiss f1.5 lenses seem clearer and more contrasty wide open than my Nikkor at f1.4, which is slightly veiled by aberrations at the widest aperture. The Nikkor f1.4 is softer and lower contrast at f1.4, but cleans up nicely at f2 and beyond. It's corners are never quite as sharp as the f2 version.

Thank you Brusby for your thoughts and pictures.

The Nikon 50mm F2 is looking great. Nice rendering. Do you know what aperture this shot was?

Is there knowledge of when these Nikon F1.4 lenses were coated. Starting with which serialnr or year of manufacture?

The Summilux looks very nice. thnx. So the Summilux will be the sharpest and well behaved wide open? Can the Millennium 50mm f1.4 and or Olympic compete wide open?

 

[Sonnar Brian]

All of the Nikkor 5cm F1.4 lenses are coated,
All of the Nikkor 5cm F1.5 lenses are coated,
All of the Nikkor 5cm F2 made after WW-2 are coated. The uncoated ones- worth extreme money.

Nikkor-SC 5cm F1.4 Sonnar Formula lens, on the Nikon SP.

Wide-Open.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Nikkor 5cm F2,



Wide-Open,

 

[Roel]

1952 KMZ Jupiter-3, originally in Contax Mount.
Wide-Open.



At F2,



A good KMZ J-3 compares with the Wartime Sonnars.
I prefer the KMZ J-3 over the Nikkor 5cm F1.4 Sonnar formula lens.

Thank you Brian for your knowledgeable replies.

I had a nice clean KMZ J-3 once in M39 but couldn't get the shimming right and eventually sold it... maybe I should try to get a good example again. The KMZ j-3 are also available in Contax mount?

 

[Roel]

I am also interested in the wide open look of the Nikkor 50mm f1.4 Millennium maybe also versus the 'normal' S.C. 5cm 1.4 or Sonnar 50mm f1.4 or Summilux 50 1.4. Couldn't find any straight comparisons. Is the Millennium the 'Summilux killer'?

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Millenium Nikkor, wide-open on the S3-2000

nikki_portrait by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

 

[Sonnar Brian]

nikki_chinese_rest_6 by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

Carl Zeiss 50mm F1.5, wide-open on a Nikon S2 custom shimmed and calibrated for the lens. I have Five of them, so dedicated one to the Sonnar.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Also make sure to get a Helios-103 53mm F1.8. $20 or so.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

These are test shots with the Millenium Nikkor on the Amedeo Adapter, with my M9.
All Wide-Open.

First shot is at minimum distance with the dedicated adapter. Second shot is at 1m.

 

[brusby]

Thank you Brusby for your thoughts and pictures.

The Nikon 50mm F2 is looking great. Nice rendering. Do you know what aperture this shot was?

Is there knowledge of when these Nikon F1.4 lenses were coated. Starting with which serialnr or year of manufacture?

The Summilux looks very nice. thnx. So the Summilux will be the sharpest and well behaved wide open? Can the Millennium 50mm f1.4 and or Olympic compete wide open?

I believe the Nikkor f/2 was shot about a stop or two down, probably f2.8 or f4, and only because we were using flash at it's minimum power.

I love the pre-asph 50mm Summilux. It's more uniform and consistent in character throughout it's aperture range than the Nikkor f1.4, at least the Nikkors I've owned and used. The Leica doesn't have the very noticeable loss of contrast and softness at f1.4 that the Nikkor does. The photo I posted from the Summilux above probably doesn't show just how sharp it is wide open because my subject was an actual guitar repairman who I was trying to photograph surreptitiously while he was doing his job. Light was low and there's some movement of both camera and subject -- hence the need for shooting this particular fast lens wide open. Plus that Summilux has some of my favorite handling characteristics of any lens, no tab and a great body size with super smooth focusing and nice scalloped grip.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

1936 Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm F1.5, wide-open on the M Monochrom.



Getting the Amedeo adapter, either for the S-Mount or Contax RF mount opens up a lot of lenses for use. If selecting just one, go with the Contax adapter as it gives a choice of many Sonnar formula lenses that are near-impossible to find in Leica mount.

The Millennium Nikkor is sharp and contrasty, but is a Double Gauss type lens. That is the mainstream design after lens coatings were in wide-spread use. The Sonnar look is just different.

The KMZ Jupiter-3 lenses are available in Contax mount, probably more in Contax mount than Leica mount. I've transplanted the barrel from 5 Contax mount KMZ lenses into Leica mount. SO- more in Contax than Leica. The Kiev was a more expensive camera than the Fed and Zorki.