Nikon, are you kidding us?

[shadowfox]

I walked to the camera section at Fry's last week and I noticed the new Nikon V1. I've seen pictures of it but I'm not one who goes to camera stores to try out new stuff, so I picked it up and just realized how thick it is.

Next to it, an Olympus E-PM1.

The difference between those two in size, ergonomics, looks, and form factor is ridiculous, it's like a brick (the V1) next to a sculpture (the E-PM1). And the V1's sensor is smaller too plus it's more expensive.

All I can think at that moment was: "Nikon, are you kidding me?"

 

[redisburning]

but like, Ashton Kutcher totally digs it. havent you seen the commercials?

in all seriousness people don't know anything about sensor size nor do they care. I pulled some individually cut 6x6 unmounted slides out of a box and my mom asked me why I had gotten such small prints.

 

[Moriturii]

1) Your first point is merely a random opinion with no means to a discussion, it's like saying "I HATE PEPERONI PIZZA"... ok, thanks for letting us know. I think it's beautiful. If Nikon V1 is a brick, isn't a Leica Mx one as well?

2) sensor size does not matter what so ever except for DoF. If it produces image quality up to a certain level it could be the size of a pinhead for all that matters to you as a consumer, only thing you lose is DoF, big woop, in fact might be a very good thing Very long DoF with low-light indoors? Perfect, that is unique, but you didn't think of that did you?. And from what I've heard, it probably has the best sensor of cameras of it's league.

 

[Phantomas]

"Us"?! Heh, don't kid yourself, "you" don't show up on Nikon's target market segment.

 

[-doomed-]

I played around with one in the local camera joint, I'm not sold on it. It was interesting though, seems more versatile than my GRD's ever were. Images looked ok on the screen so it's not all bad.

 

[f16sunshine]

Will,
I think I get your point. Nikon could have and (with their history and loyal following) should have done better. The camera is ergonomically a brick and super ugly as well. I noted there is no grip on this camera in another thread where there was a photo of it posted. For me the jury is out on the sensor. I would not want one to use for Portraits. Maybe for snapshots and vacation pics it's ok. My problem with small sensors is perspective distortion. If Nikon has a way around that..... (and they don't ....10mm normal lens?? Hello big noses and hands.)

 

[dave lackey]

Will,

You are exactly right. Nikon had a golden opportunity to make a new SP or similar camera but instead, decided on an ugly lump with a new system.

Seems like all that sells these days are melted lumps of plastic and such. Where are the real designers these days?😕

 

[ktran]

Will,
I think I get your point. Nikon could have and (with their history and loyal following) should have done better. The camera is ergonomically a brick and super ugly as well. I noted there is no grip on this camera in another thread where there was a photo of it posted. For me the jury is out on the sensor. I would not want one to use for Portraits. Maybe for snapshots and vacation pics it's ok. My problem with small sensors is perspective distortion. If Nikon has a way around that..... (and they don't ....10mm normal lens?? Hello big noses and hands.)

Perspective is a function of distance-to-subject, and not lens focal length. Perspective is "compressed" when you're far away from your subject, and expanded when you're close-up.

Case in point... this was shot with a 50mm lens on a "full-frame sensor" (err... well, Ilford HP5 in 135 format):


Jeff and typewriter by khoa_sus2, on Flickr

Since his hands are really a couple of feet closer to the camera than his head is, the hands appear unnaturally large.

This was shot with a Coolpix at 15mm (something like 72mm FF equiv):


Anya, behind the glass curtain by khoa_sus2, on Flickr

No perspective distortion, because of my shooting distance, and her pose.

As for the Nikon 1 series... I find it interesting, but having bought into the Micro 4/3 system, I'm happy where I am, and don't really feel compelled to go Nikon's route. The camera aesthetics don't do much for me either.

 

[Phantomas]

Will,

Nikon had a golden opportunity

You see, this is where people use wrong logic to begin with. Nikon had no "golden opportunity" because they already control 40% market share in the enthusiast + pro segment. Thus anything fancy and powerful would eat into their own share. Now why would they do that? Entry level segment is very strong and established, a full featured mirrorless would just start canibalising it.
The golden oportunity is for underdogs, you should chance them for your dream camera. Sony and Fuji are doing it, good for them. Pani put out a decent product with a healthy roadmap. Now Oly and Pentax are indeed the ones that are kidding. They should be the ones taking risks coz they don't have much to loose, Nikon does. And on case people are still dreaming - no, Nikon doesn't care about RFF market. "Nikon SP", heh, which century do you live in.

BTW 10mm = 27mm, not a "normal" lens in my book.

 

[celluloidprop]

I'm glad someone said it - I was going to say that there's no upside for Nikon to eat away at their D7000/D700 (and whatever is under the D7000) market share with an affordable, killer EVIL.

If Olympus/Sony/et al. start to damage Nikon's market share, then they might come out with an enthusiast mirrorless and accompanying lenses. That doesn't appear to be happening right now.

 

[f16sunshine]

BTW 10mm = 27mm, not a "normal" lens in my book.

Not in my book either. My mistake I understood the crop factor differently but, will take your word on it.

Perspective is a function of distance-to-subject, and not lens focal length. Perspective is "compressed" when you're far away from your subject, and expanded when you're close-up.

Yes, of course I am well aware of how it works. As well I'm well aware that many people will still be chasing "bokeh" with this small sensor. This mean more folks coming closer and closer to their subjects to narrow the DOF. This is my point.

 

[Phantomas]

But anyway, I wouldn't buy a Nikon 1 either, for a number of reasons not limited to small sensor. Yet, I don't find it necessary to complain how Nikon has failed MY needs with Nikon 1, just because I know it wasn't made for ME. The sooner the others realise it the sooner we can move on to more useful subjects, like how great photography is and how little relevance cameras have to good soulful photo taking.
The most refreshing experiences I've had was talking to Magnum, VII, NOOR, etc photographers (you know, the real deal, not some sunday shooters) is how badly a lot of them know cameras. I even had to correct settings on a couple of their cameras (one World Press Photo winning photog, no names shall be named, gave me a big hug and told me I "changed his life" after I tweaked focus from continuous to single AF on his D700 🙂 ). People like this make me happy because it's a reminder that great photos are not about cameras, sensor sizes or grips, it's a bout your vision and determination and talent that no camera can hinder.
Oh well, i'm gonna go and have a beer and develop some film. Why waste time on topics like which camera manufacturer is "kidding me". Oops, I already did... the joke is on me 🙂

 

[shadowfox]

But anyway, I wouldn't buy a Nikon 1 either, for a number of reasons not limited to small sensor. Yet, I don't find it necessary to complain how Nikon has failed MY needs with Nikon 1, just because I know it wasn't made for ME. The sooner the others realise it the sooner we can move on to more useful subjects, like how great photography is and how little relevance cameras have to good soulful photo taking.
The most refreshing experiences I've had was talking to Magnum, VII, NOOR, etc photographers (you know, the real deal, not some sunday shooters) is how badly a lot of them know cameras. I even had to correct settings on a couple of their cameras (one World Press Photo winning photog, no names shall be named, gave me a big hug and told me I "changed his life" after I tweaked focus from continuous to single AF on his D700 🙂 ). People like this make me happy because it's a reminder that great photos are not about cameras, sensor sizes or grips, it's a bout your vision and determination and talent that no camera can hinder.
Oh well, i'm gonna go and have a beer and develop some film. Why waste time on topics like which camera manufacturer is "kidding me". Oops, I already did... the joke is on me 🙂

Dude,
You need to lighten up. I've read your posts recently and they are all seem to be so... tense and 'chip-on-your-shoulder'-y.

This post got started with nothing but my personal opinion about a camera. Your views are diametrically opposite of mine, and we both are no less nor better because of it.

Enjoy your beer... and start another discussion about good soulful photo taking, please 🙂

 

[igi]

Suddenly, sensor size does not matter when it's a Nikon...

 

[andrewteee]

I tried the V1 over a weekend. It actually feels good in the hand and the material is a sort of rubbery plastic so the grip is solid. The EVF is very good, and the "auto" settings worked out really well if I dialed back the exposure by a stop or two ( find that's the case with most cameras I've used).

In the end, it was not for me, but for a lot of people it could be just the ticket. However, I think that for that audience it is too expensive.

 

[shadowfox]

1) Your first point is merely a random opinion with no means to a discussion, it's like saying "I HATE PEPERONI PIZZA"... ok, thanks for letting us know. I think it's beautiful. If Nikon V1 is a brick, isn't a Leica Mx one as well?

2) sensor size does not matter what so ever except for DoF. If it produces image quality up to a certain level it could be the size of a pinhead for all that matters to you as a consumer, only thing you lose is DoF, big woop, in fact might be a very good thing Very long DoF with low-light indoors? Perfect, that is unique, but you didn't think of that did you?. And from what I've heard, it probably has the best sensor of cameras of it's league.

1) I said Nikon V1 looks like a brick next to the elegant E-PM1. It may look like a smaller brick next to my M4-P. So what? that does not change the fact that I am very disappointed with what Nikon came up with. If you like it and you feel offended by my opinion, I'm sorry.

2) Tell that to those people who said m4/3rd cameras are not for "serious photographers." because of its waaaaay smaller sensor compared to Fuji X100.

 

[jordanstarr]

but like, Ashton Kutcher totally digs it. havent you seen the commercials?

in all seriousness people don't know anything about sensor size nor do they care. I pulled some individually cut 6x6 unmounted slides out of a box and my mom asked me why I had gotten such small prints.

Haha! That made my day.

 

[Matus]

Nikon is not kidding anybody. They just introduced a camera they figured will well and make bunch of money - and as far as I have heard it seems to be working. Nikon also seems to be aware of the fact that many people (mostly those who do not care about the sensor size) are willing to pay MORE for Nikon than Pentax, Olympus or Sony.

So - you may just pardon Nikon for making a camera that was not designed for enthusiastic photo-forum goers this time, but rather for much larger group of their customer base.

I also agree that Nikon did not want to jeopardize their DSLR sales. They may change the strategy in the future if the mirror-less cameras will continue gaining interest, but for now they are playing safe.

I would not be surprised if Canon would go similar route. Why? The enthusiastic photo-forum goers are mostly already serverd by Sony, Olympus, Panasonic, Samsung and Ricoh (with Leica and Fuji on the horizon). At least for now.

 

[Phantomas]

Dude,
You need to lighten up. I've read your posts recently and they are all seem to be so... tense and 'chip-on-your-shoulder'-y.

This post got started with nothing but my personal opinion about a camera. Your views are diametrically opposite of mine, and we both are no less nor better because of it.

Enjoy your beer... and start another discussion about good soulful photo taking, please 🙂

Hey, nothing personal. I didn't mean it as a direct comment about your particular thread but the general wave we get here sometimes when a camera that is not targeted at RFF demographic gets launched. Can you imagine these forums if everyone starts complaining how Coolpix doesn't suit their needs?

As far as being tense, hmmm, I mostly read travel forum and the photography book threads, and I enjoy those. You probably read the comment about how I don't care about the death of film 🙂

Back to beer and scanning (I hate developing, so I'm postponing it one more day 🙂 ).

 

[jsrockit]

Nikon is not kidding anybody. They just introduced a camera they figured will well and make bunch of money - and as far as I have heard it seems to be working. Nikon also seems to be aware of the fact that many people (mostly those who do not care about the sensor size) are willing to pay MORE for Nikon than Pentax, Olympus or Sony.

So - you may just pardon Nikon for making a camera that was not designed for enthusiastic photo-forum goers this time, but rather for much larger group of their customer base.

Exactly... I heard they were doing well with these cameras too.