Nikon F --- All it's cracked up to be?

[ChrisPlatt]

A Nikon F is iconic to hold and to party like its 1959, but the F2 to me is a much better user

My beloved Nikon FTn was stolen years ago. I'd have replaced it but for the unavailable battery.
Today I'm enjoying an F2 Photomic. I agree it is an improved design but I still miss the old F.

Chris

 

[Dwig]

Regarding the introduction of the F2, it wasn't plain sailing.
The first year many F2 had a few problems...

True, they were dogs, but after a few years the F2 settled in as a fine and reliable model.

The very earliest F2 bodies will not work reliably on the motor drives, which didn't make it to market during the F2's first 2 years. There were also a number of shutter/transport issues. Some were minor, like the mirror lock lever being too easy to dislodge when holding the body by the motor's grip, and some were major, a rework of the shutter/transport resulting in alterations of the core body casting.

Back in the day (mid '70s) I heard the rumor that Nikon would make a complete replacement of the body, though retaining the old serial number, when one of the early 1970 bodies was sent in for service with a newly purchased MD1 citing transport issues when the motor was used. True?? I don't really know.

 

[Vickko]

Wow, I had no idea. This is fascinating to hear about the birthing pains of the F2.

 

[Godfrey]

Nikon Fs are just terrific. One of the toughest, most reliable cameras ever made. I've got a couple.
But I'm mostly a Leica user and they do EVERYTHING backwards from focusing on.
RF content: The Nikon F is really a Nikon SP with a mirror box.

For some reason, although I've been using Leica RFs and Nikon SLRs side by side since the late 1960s and known about the difference in the directions things turn all along, I've never really noticed this when I'm using the cameras. Matter of fact, when I took out the new-to-me Leicaflex SL and Summicron-R 90mm lens the other day, I used it all day and still don't recall which way the focusing and aperture rings turn. I can't remember which way the focusing ring turns on the E-1 either, although I know I can program it to turn whichever way I want (servo driven). Funny stuff ... 🙂

(While the Nikon F is certainly a derivative of the SP in many specifics, I think it is trivializing the amount of engineering and development that had to happen to make the F come into being. "Adding a mirror box" does not really give one insight into all the work that goes into designing and testing the auto-diaphragm mechanism, the auto-return mirror regulation system, the interchangeable 100% coverage focusing screen, the prism head, and so many other details that were quite advanced in 1959. It would be interesting to see just how many, if any, pieces from the SP actually interchange to an F.)

G

 

[yanchep_mike]

I just had to ........

 

[peterm1]

I just had to ........

Oh you sexy beast (s)

 

[Frontman]

I love shooting with old Nikons, and the F is arguably the best 35mm camera ever made. It is rock solid, and completely reliable. A Leica M might feel more refined in operation, but it is simply a step or two down from the Nikon F.

I have a few old Nikons, and I try to use all of them regularly. The F and the S3 pictured here have never been repaired or serviced, yet when I checked out their shutters on my digital shutter tester, they were both spot-on. Both have titanium curtains, which don't rot like the shutters many other companies used.

You can see the similarities between the two cameras. The winding mechanisms and shutter mechanisms are the same in both cameras, and are interchangeable. Many people upgrade the old silk shutters in Nikon rangefinders by swapping in the titanium curtains from an old F. The Nikon F is pretty much a Nikon S rangefinder camera with a mirror box and prism attached.

I also have some newer Nikons, and love shooting the F3. The F3 was my first "real" Nikon 25 years ago, and is still one of my favorites.

The old F does have some idiosyncrasies, the shutter button is set to the rear like the Nikon rangefinder cameras (with which you focused using your middle finder, and used your index finger on the shutter button), and you have to remove the back when changing film. It is still much easier to change film than with any Leica rangefinder. Also, the shutter speed maxes out at 1/1000, which can be troublesome if you shoot fast films during the day, or like large aperture lenses.

The F is also a bit heavy, but it is heavy because it is pretty much a solid piece of metal. It fits well in the hands, and the large viewfinder makes focusing easy. The eye-level prism can be dented, but the prisms on the F2 are much more fragile (except for the Ti models, which seem nearly impossible to dent).

I love my old F, and it is one of the cameras I will never part with.

 

[Shac]

Dwig - I was always under the impression that it was the first motor drives MD-1) that had problems and they were replaced with a second slightly different model (MD-2) - but I bow to your wider knowledge

I use both F's and F2's and like them finding no problems handling the different positions of the shutter release -r switching btwn the F's and the Leica M's

Fabulous cameras - got my first in 1967 & still have it along with a few 😉 others

Agree with Frontman on their extreme durability

 

[honozooloo]

The F is indeed a great camera. Solid, reliable, and extremely elegant.

My first "real" camera back in the late 80s was a Nikon FE...for those considering their first foray into the world of Nikon SLRs, it's also a good camera to take a look at. I actually prefer the FE for its slightly more compact size and light weight (vs the F), ability to take commonly available SR44 batteries, aperture-priority metering, super easy to use match needle if you go manual, sub-$100 price range on fleabay (there are sellers who offer them freshly CLA'd in various condition, depending on your budget), and although the FE is technically an AI-lens system body, it can also be coaxed into properly metering and shooting with vintage non-AI glass. Other handy features include surprisingly accurate long-exposure (no limit to minimum shutter speeds, if you take a dark night shot af f/16 the camera will give you the necessary 2+ min exposure or whatever), and in self timer mode the mirror locks up automatically.

It's still one of the smartest, simplest cameras I've ever used, and even though I'm a little biased since I learned photography on one...I can't tell you how many times I've fumbled with more modern, vastly more complex camera systems and found myself wishing that they could be as simple and direct as these old Nikons are.

 

[ferider]

just curious about the original nikon f -- it's one of the prettiest cameras i've ever seen, is it equally as nice to use? are the successors (f2, f3) better, if so why? i know how good the optics are. this is a legendary camera, what seems to be the m3 of SLRs, just wondering why and what makes it so great to use as i've never been able to use one personally.

also, how is the photomic meter? what pattern is it, center weighted?

I have F, FM and F3. Use the F with an unmeter'ed prism. The F3 is so much nicer to use than the F, it's hard to describe. And it's prettier, too. YMMV, of course.

And no, it's not the M3 of the SLRs.

Roland.

 

[ivanuskokovic]

Pyramid's. A triple set of F's (shot with a 4th one - 55f3.5 Micro Nikkor). 25 year old Adox 21, developer in Rodinal 1:100 stand development for 60 min. I have added at least two more "plain prism" F's since that shot!

Is that an all black soft shutter release on your black F?!
From...where?!

 

[jonmanjiro]

Many people upgrade the old silk shutters in Nikon rangefinders by swapping in the titanium curtains from an old F.

FWIW the repair guys at Photo Koubou Kiitos (a repair company in Nishi-Ohi, Shinagawa-ku, operated by retired Nikon staff just down the road from the original Nikon factory) advised me against reusing titanium curtains from a Nikon F in a Nikon rangefinder. Its just too easy to damage them during removal, and once they're damaged they never install quite right. They have a supply of "new" old stock Nikon F3 titanium shutter curtains they use instead. There is at least one SP 2005 and one S3 2002 out there with these shutter curtains installed. If anyone is interested in using their services, ask for Motohashi-san. He used to work at the Nikon repair center in New York and speaks good English.

http://photo-kiitos.co.jp/
http://photo-kiitos.co.jp/page/gaiyo.html

Not enough pictures of the F in this thread...sooooooo....

Here's a few more 🙂


Family Resemblance - Nikon F meets Nikon S3 2000 by jonmanjiro, on Flickr


Smaller size is one reason to choose a rangefinder over an SLR by jonmanjiro, on Flickr

 

[Godfrey]

I dunno. I see a lot of differences between the F and the SP I once had. I know the shutter itself is similar, and many smaller parts interchange, but there are big differences in the body castings.

They are styled to look very much of the same family, however.

I supposed it's a matter of opinion as to what "an SP with a mirror box" means to someone. I spend too much time with engineers doing product development to regard their work with such a statement.

G

 

[tunalegs]

I find the F/S2/SP/S shutter release in just the right place, I have never liked draping my fingers across the top of a camera, to me that just introduces shake. and requires a soft release.

I've come to prefer a front mounted release. There is something wrong, ergonomically, with having to reach a finger over the advance lever to trip the shutter. I think Zeiss (east) got it right when they introduced the angled release on the front of the 1949 Contax S. It is probably telling that many modern SLRs use an angled shutter button. Although Leica's solution with the M cameras was also pretty clever.

 

[jonmanjiro]

I dunno. I see a lot of differences between the F and the SP I once had. I know the shutter itself is similar, and many smaller parts interchange, but there are big differences in the body castings.

They are styled to look very much of the same family, however.

I supposed it's a matter of opinion as to what "an SP with a mirror box" means to someone. I spend too much time with engineers doing product development to regard their work with such a statement.

G

Not really, Godfrey. Even though the F was released two years later than the SP, Nikon engineers actually designed the SP and F at the same time, and they were tasked with maximizing the number of shared parts to keep costs to a minimum. Of course the body castings and many parts are different to accomodate the different viewing/focusing mechanisms, but a lot of parts are indeed shared. Naturally, there were minor changes made to parts during the course of production of the SP to improve reliability etc., but the same is also true of the F. If you look inside an S3 "Olympic" from 1965 and compare it with an F of the same vintage, its obvious the shared parts are identical.

I've seen/used an SP that had a complete F advance mechanism installed in it. It was an earlier SP and Shintaro wanted to fit a later type advance lever with plastic end (the type held in place by three screws) to it, so he swapped out the complete advance mechanism. The F mechanism slotted right in without modification. He also installed a F2 slow speed governor in an S, and it also slotted right in without modification. Surprising considering the time difference between the development of these two cameras.

 

[tunalegs]

Not really, Godfrey. Even though the F was released two years later than the SP, Nikon engineers actually designed the SP and F at the same time, and they were tasked with maximizing the number of shared parts to keep costs to a minimum. Of course the body castings and many parts are different to accomodate the different viewing/focusing mechanisms, but a lot of parts are indeed shared. Naturally, there were minor changes made to parts during the course of production of the SP to improve reliability etc., but the same is also true of the F. If you look inside an S3 "Olympic" from 1965 and compare it with an F of the same vintage, its obvious the shared parts are identical.

I've seen/used an SP that had a complete F advance mechanism installed in it. It was an earlier SP and Shintaro wanted to fit a later type advance lever with plastic end (the type held in place by three screws) to it, so he swapped out the complete advance mechanism. The F mechanism slotted right in without modification. He also installed a F2 slow speed governor in an S, and it also slotted right in without modification. Surprising considering the time difference between the development of these two cameras.

I would probably say that there are more differences than similarities. There's obviously a lot of parts in the F that have no equivalent in the rangefinders, even if there are a lot of interchangeable parts for mechanisms that they have in common.

I wonder if one tallied up all the parts which are shared and all parts which are not, what the result would be? I'm going to guess they're more different than the same.

 

[jonmanjiro]

You're probably right!

I would probably say that there are more differences than similarities. There's obviously a lot of parts in the F that have no equivalent in the rangefinders, even if there are a lot of interchangeable parts for mechanisms that they have in common.

I wonder if one tallied up all the parts which are shared and all parts which are not, what the result would be? I'm going to guess they're more different than the same.

Anyway, for those who are interested here's a quote from Nikon's website below:

The Nikon SP and F were developed at the same time

In 1955, Nippon Kogaku started in earnest to develop the Nikon SP, a camera that would be the world's best, to succeed the Nikon S2. This new camera, Nippon Kogaku believed, would be superior to the Leica M3. After developing many camera bodies and interchangeable lenses for the S2, Nippon Kogaku realized that the development of direct optical viewfinders and coupled rangefinder was approaching its technological limits. Though lenses had become brighter and shooting areas wider, advancements in focusing accuracy had stagnated and viewfinder technology wasn't progressing as quickly as they would have liked. For example, focusing was impossible with accessory viewfinders for interchangeable lenses and the views were not clear. To solve these problems once and for all, Nippon Kogaku's engineers decided to undertake intense technological study of SLR cameras. Among the goals they set for themselves were that the new SLRs had to offer a shooting speed as fast as the SP and be just as easy as the SP to operate.

In this way, planning for the Nikon F started while the SP was still being developed. For the first time, Nippon Kogaku was developing two(2) cameras simultaneously. Priority was given to the SP as the F became a secondary project for the company.

Further reading here:

http://imaging.nikon.com/history/legendary/rhnc05f-e/

 

[giellaleafapmu]

A couple of years ago I got a beater F with plain prism and 50/1.4 for $75. It could stand servicing for sure, but generally it works -- no surprise. What's interesting is that, while the serial number is a later 64 range (648xxxx), the righthand top plate must have been replaced at some point long ago since it has the "Nikon" engraving rather than the Nippon Kogaku logo. I say "long ago" since that piece seems every bit as worn as the rest of the camera. The back has no serial numbers either -- which makes me think it's a replacement as well.

That's funny, I have an Apollo with half top plate replaced and saying Nippon Kogaku, that also happened long ago and all blend together.

GLF

 

[giellaleafapmu]

I am another F lover, I have many and even tough I also have F2, FE and FM as well as Olympus and Leica the F is the film camera I use more often (I don't use that much film these days but anyway). I think a lot has to do with the fact that the F was the camera I dreamed about but could not afford when was state of the art technology and the first camera on which I spent too much money when I finally could buy one and that it is the camera I used for more time now, anyway, I don't care if it doesn't have a meter or if the button is in the wrong position or if I have to put the back in my pocket (not my theet) when I change film, that's the film camera I like. Ok, I also liked the Leicaflex SL and the R8 and R9 (many say they are the ugliest cameras ever made but I disagree), but I am out of the R system now, I sold all I had and I hope I don't get the hitch again so F if it for me when I shot film.

GLF

 

[shadowfox]

My dream is to one day find a rarely used black Nikon F at a garage or estate sale.