moreorless
Member
I'm looking to potentially pickup a manual Nikon SLR for use with my Zeiss 50mm Makro(the older ZF version from the prongs) and I'm being drawn towards these two, mostly due to the 100% viewfinders over the various FM/FE bodies. From what I understand there shouldn't be compatibility issue on either of these two so I'm really looking at reasons to go for one over the other.
If I'm honest I'd slightly more drawn to the F2 simply in terms of look/feel plus despite being older the examples I'v seen tend to be in better shape(fewer dings on the metered finders mainly). I know I would be losing aperture priority but an alternative to the automation of my D800 is part of the reason I'm interested in shifting. Is the F3 going to offer me anything else that's worth having? is it any better/worse in terms of reliability and potential decline?
If I'm honest I'd slightly more drawn to the F2 simply in terms of look/feel plus despite being older the examples I'v seen tend to be in better shape(fewer dings on the metered finders mainly). I know I would be losing aperture priority but an alternative to the automation of my D800 is part of the reason I'm interested in shifting. Is the F3 going to offer me anything else that's worth having? is it any better/worse in terms of reliability and potential decline?
Vickko
Veteran
Kind of like comparing two different cameras, with the F2 being completely mechanical and the F3 being electronic, and having only a couple mechanical speeds if the battery dies. Another comparison would be selecting a Leica M6 vs M7.
I've used both, but now only own an F2.
I don't know a lot of the reliability history of the F3 (maybe saw a couple negative stories on the web) but the F2 will go on forever. Sover Wong is an enthusiast of the F2, if you want to research more on the F2. http://www.soverf2repair.webs.com/
I don't consider the F3 a very "electronically advanced" camera, but would hesitate to try to repair one; the F2 is very very repairable.
....Vick
I've used both, but now only own an F2.
I don't know a lot of the reliability history of the F3 (maybe saw a couple negative stories on the web) but the F2 will go on forever. Sover Wong is an enthusiast of the F2, if you want to research more on the F2. http://www.soverf2repair.webs.com/
I don't consider the F3 a very "electronically advanced" camera, but would hesitate to try to repair one; the F2 is very very repairable.
....Vick
moreorless
Member
Thanks Vick, I wouldn't say I'm really that concerned about battery life provided its not going to need changing vastly more on the F3 as I would be looking at a metered F2 prism if I did pick one up.
In terms of reliability its really the meter I'm thinking about more than anything else with the F2.
Is there much difference in terms of the viewfinders? size, brightness, etc
In terms of reliability its really the meter I'm thinking about more than anything else with the F2.
Is there much difference in terms of the viewfinders? size, brightness, etc
mfogiel
Veteran
The lens will balance well on both, although the F2 is slightly smaller. In terms of VF experience, if you find an F2 with the DE-1 finder, it will be slightly better than the F3 NON HP vf (HP VF is even smaller) You can then check the accuracy of focus with the available screen, and possibly verify, if a more recent F3 screen inserted into the F2 screen frame will perform better. The F3 is overall a more sophisticated camera, and in practice costs 1/3rd of the F2 with DE-1, so it is up to you. If you are buying for life, get the F2, if you are buying for shooting in the street, the F3 appears more practical. Both are great bodies, much better than any other manual focus SLR I've ever tried.
Have a look here: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=137012
Have a look here: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=137012
FrankS
Registered User
F2 and F3 were both very long-lived pro camera models. No problems with either. You have to decide if you want the F3's exposure automation option. If you are looking for something different from your dslr, get the F2. Ideally, get both and decide based on first hand experience.
Highway 61
Revisited
Many F3 are now affected with VF LCD display bleeding. The F3 is an electronic camera, with an electronic shutter and an electronic selftimer.
Mutatis mutandis, we can now consider for sure that mechanical cameras of the 1975-1985 era hold up quite better than their electronic brothers over time.
An F2 with DE-1 finder is clearly the best option... yet, they're expensive (but you can very well grab one at a very fair price if you're patient).
Re. metered F2s, look for one with a DP-3 finder. It combines all the advantages : you can couple absolutely all Nikkor lenses with it, even pre-Ai ones, and it has the same reliable Si metering cells as the DP-12 finder.
When sold as a kit, a F2 with a DP-3 finder was called the F2SB.
Mutatis mutandis, we can now consider for sure that mechanical cameras of the 1975-1985 era hold up quite better than their electronic brothers over time.
An F2 with DE-1 finder is clearly the best option... yet, they're expensive (but you can very well grab one at a very fair price if you're patient).
Re. metered F2s, look for one with a DP-3 finder. It combines all the advantages : you can couple absolutely all Nikkor lenses with it, even pre-Ai ones, and it has the same reliable Si metering cells as the DP-12 finder.
When sold as a kit, a F2 with a DP-3 finder was called the F2SB.
Huss
Veteran
I have two F2s (DP12 metered head and original non-metered), and two Fs.
They have been serviced by Sover Wong who I cannot recommend more highly.
I picked these series over the F3 as they are the antithesis of my digital camera. Fully mechanical with an incredible feel and they will last forever unless you try to break them.
The F3 is a great camera, but it just depends on what does it for you. I'd handle both and see.
They have been serviced by Sover Wong who I cannot recommend more highly.
I picked these series over the F3 as they are the antithesis of my digital camera. Fully mechanical with an incredible feel and they will last forever unless you try to break them.
The F3 is a great camera, but it just depends on what does it for you. I'd handle both and see.
Robert Lai
Well-known
I had both. If you ever decide to use flash with that Macro Planar, you will be a lot better off using the TTL flash control of the F3. F3 dedicated ring flashes do exist, and they don't cost very much now. With the F2 as with any other non-TTL flash camera, you have to make adjustments to your flash exposure depending on the degree of magnification.
I find the F3 very fast to use, due to its aperture priority exposure automation. It is physically smaller than an F2 with a meter head installed. The low light sensitivity of the Silicon blue cells in the F3 is extraordinary. I've had night time shots on AUTO that lasted several HOURS. The FRE used for the meter settings lasts forever. Shutter speeds are stepless in the Auto mode.
The F2 meters will have Cds or Silicon cells. The F2AS will cost the most money, as it has all the latest features. There is more of a learning curve with the F2, as you can set stepless shutter speeds except between certain speeds (which I can't remember at the moment). Long shutter speeds require interaction with the self timer.
Per Sover Wong, the wirewound resistor of the F2A meter will last a lifetime. Other meter heads may require a new ring resistor and / or CdS cell, which he has specially made for him, and he can install for you. You camera will have to make a trip to the UK for repairs though.
I find the F3 very fast to use, due to its aperture priority exposure automation. It is physically smaller than an F2 with a meter head installed. The low light sensitivity of the Silicon blue cells in the F3 is extraordinary. I've had night time shots on AUTO that lasted several HOURS. The FRE used for the meter settings lasts forever. Shutter speeds are stepless in the Auto mode.
The F2 meters will have Cds or Silicon cells. The F2AS will cost the most money, as it has all the latest features. There is more of a learning curve with the F2, as you can set stepless shutter speeds except between certain speeds (which I can't remember at the moment). Long shutter speeds require interaction with the self timer.
Per Sover Wong, the wirewound resistor of the F2A meter will last a lifetime. Other meter heads may require a new ring resistor and / or CdS cell, which he has specially made for him, and he can install for you. You camera will have to make a trip to the UK for repairs though.
Huss
Veteran
He just replaced mine. A 2 week turn around from Los Angeles to the UK! Much quicker than if I would have sent it to any jack of all trades local place.
Sover also emails you detailed step by step photographs of what he is doing to your equipment. Incredible really.
moreorless
Member
One advantage of the F2 there then as I live in the UK.
Spicy
Well-known
I believe the F3 holds the distinct honors of being one of (if not *the*) cameras with the longest production run, from 1980 until 2001, effectively unchanged except for a few small tweaks.
It's about as basic an electromagnetic-shuttered camera can get. Some of the new features haven't been shown to be well-implemented, but everything that's important (and you would find on an F2) works excellently -- most of the quirks come from the finder's shutter-speed display, and it's awkwardly-implemented lighting solution.
If you want bulletproof, go with the F2. If you want bulletproof and aperture-priority auto-exposure, go with the F3.
As mentioned, the F3 is a big smaller (and probably lighter, but I'm not sure on that). I've never used an F2, but routinely use a plain-prism'd F and and F3. Both are epic. It's like choosing between a cute blond and a cute brunette -- a wonderful conundrum to have.
It's about as basic an electromagnetic-shuttered camera can get. Some of the new features haven't been shown to be well-implemented, but everything that's important (and you would find on an F2) works excellently -- most of the quirks come from the finder's shutter-speed display, and it's awkwardly-implemented lighting solution.
If you want bulletproof, go with the F2. If you want bulletproof and aperture-priority auto-exposure, go with the F3.
As mentioned, the F3 is a big smaller (and probably lighter, but I'm not sure on that). I've never used an F2, but routinely use a plain-prism'd F and and F3. Both are epic. It's like choosing between a cute blond and a cute brunette -- a wonderful conundrum to have.
ChrisLivsey
Veteran
Yet another plug for Sover.
No work done unless necessary, you have his full attention when on your camera.
Which one? :
Exactly
Do you want an all manual difference from the DSLR or a half way house: your decision.
No work done unless necessary, you have his full attention when on your camera.
Which one? :
Exactly
Do you want an all manual difference from the DSLR or a half way house: your decision.ruby.monkey
Veteran
F2 if you need a hammer, F3 if you're after a camera.
Either one with motor drive if you have to stop a charging rhino.
Either one with motor drive if you have to stop a charging rhino.
Corran
Well-known
I like my F2 better. No fiddling with the pre-AI level business like on the F3 if I want to use older lenses. I don't like the film advance of the F3, and I don't like the motor drive either. The F2 doesn't need batteries, which I like.
If I am wanting an auto mode I'll get my F4!
If I am wanting an auto mode I'll get my F4!
rbsinto
Well-known
If I was making the choice between an F2 and something else, it would be an FA, which was everything the F3 should have been but wasn't.
I've recently put my motorized F2AS aside and started using my motorized FA as my primary SLR body, for an number of reasons: to reduce sheer weight and size to be carried, while gaining Matrix metering, and the option of of Shutter Priority metering if I need it.
I've always been convinced that if the FA had been built to the same Industrial Strength specs as the Nikon Pro bodies, it would have been the successor to the F2, instead of the F3.
My suggestion?
Motorized FA.
I've recently put my motorized F2AS aside and started using my motorized FA as my primary SLR body, for an number of reasons: to reduce sheer weight and size to be carried, while gaining Matrix metering, and the option of of Shutter Priority metering if I need it.
I've always been convinced that if the FA had been built to the same Industrial Strength specs as the Nikon Pro bodies, it would have been the successor to the F2, instead of the F3.
My suggestion?
Motorized FA.
FrankS
Registered User
"I've always been convinced that if the FA had been built to the same Industrial Strength specs as the Nikon Pro bodies, it would have been the successor to the F2, instead of the F3."
But it wasn't built to that standard, so it wasn't the successor.
But it wasn't built to that standard, so it wasn't the successor.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
The F was my first Nikon, later I had an F2 and then a couple of F3s. (Also a brace of FM, FM2n, FE2, etc...)
I know everyone sings the praises of the F2, but I always preferred the plain prism F to the F2. The F3/T with hp finder was a better camera, though, with more accurate shutter timing and a quieter, smoother shutter. The F3 is a pretty solidly made piece of equipment and is an "old school" type of pro-grade camera with lots of adjustment and tuning options available to the technician when in need of service.
I have two Fs again now, although one is due to go to a friend of mine. The one I'm keeping is a chrome plain prism F from 1965. I recently had it completely overhauled. It's a wonderful old tank and makes glorious photos, just like it did fifty years ago.
I have the original Nikon coupled selenium cell meter for it too. The selenium cell is dead; I wonder who might be able to overhaul that... It would be nice to have it working again.
G
I know everyone sings the praises of the F2, but I always preferred the plain prism F to the F2. The F3/T with hp finder was a better camera, though, with more accurate shutter timing and a quieter, smoother shutter. The F3 is a pretty solidly made piece of equipment and is an "old school" type of pro-grade camera with lots of adjustment and tuning options available to the technician when in need of service.
I have two Fs again now, although one is due to go to a friend of mine. The one I'm keeping is a chrome plain prism F from 1965. I recently had it completely overhauled. It's a wonderful old tank and makes glorious photos, just like it did fifty years ago.
I have the original Nikon coupled selenium cell meter for it too. The selenium cell is dead; I wonder who might be able to overhaul that... It would be nice to have it working again.
G
Range-rover
Veteran
I had (have) both, a F2 a long time ago it's a great built camera will last
a life time. Now I have a F3 which I use once in awhile it's nice as well but
it has a little bleeding of the LCD and I'm not sure if it can be fixed but
otherwise it works great and I think the finder is a bit brighter if that's
important to you.
Range
a life time. Now I have a F3 which I use once in awhile it's nice as well but
it has a little bleeding of the LCD and I'm not sure if it can be fixed but
otherwise it works great and I think the finder is a bit brighter if that's
important to you.
Range
Robert Lai
Well-known
The F3 meter panel display is a small LCD. Nikon should still have replacement parts, seeing as this camera was still being built until relatively recently. Mine still has the original one from 1983, and it was going strong. (I have sold the camera recently).
I also have the plain prism F. I've been looking for a meter prism for the F, but ALL of the ones that I've looked at have had desilvering of the pentaprism. This is due to foam in the prism housing that eats away at the silver. You'll see this as black blobs in the viewing scene. My plain prism also had decementing of the doublet that forms the eyepiece. Luckily, Authorized Photo Service in Morton Grove, IL still had new old stock replacements of this very part. Nikon F2 prisms don't seem to suffer from these ailments.
If you want shutter priority automated exposure with an F2 camera, as long as it has the silicon blue diode sensors (F2SB, or F2AS), they did make a motorized device for this purpose. It will physically turn the aperture ring of the lens for you to the correct setting. Sover Wong has a video of the device in action, on his website.
I also have the plain prism F. I've been looking for a meter prism for the F, but ALL of the ones that I've looked at have had desilvering of the pentaprism. This is due to foam in the prism housing that eats away at the silver. You'll see this as black blobs in the viewing scene. My plain prism also had decementing of the doublet that forms the eyepiece. Luckily, Authorized Photo Service in Morton Grove, IL still had new old stock replacements of this very part. Nikon F2 prisms don't seem to suffer from these ailments.
If you want shutter priority automated exposure with an F2 camera, as long as it has the silicon blue diode sensors (F2SB, or F2AS), they did make a motorized device for this purpose. It will physically turn the aperture ring of the lens for you to the correct setting. Sover Wong has a video of the device in action, on his website.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
That's good to know! Thanks.
I was pretty lucky with the '65 F. A friend (Pentax enthusiast) gave it to me after it had been sitting in a box in his closet for a decade or more. (He didn't know what to do with it...)
The bottom half of the never-ready case, the meter attachment, and the plain prism were with it. He lost the lens (!), so it had been sitting with the lens off for years. The camera was full of dust and crud, not jammed but on its way there. I dropped it off for service and got it back in pristine operating order, clean and pretty, a month or two later. The plain prism has very little if any desilvering that I can see - no black blobs or other artifacts. I fitted my favorite A screen and the Nikkor-H 85/1.8 to it. A test roll of film proved it is in perfect shape now.
G