GarageBoy
Well-known
I just picked up an F4 with the MB20 and I was wondering, how much bigger and heavier is the MB21 battery pack?
This thing is pretty big on its own, and the MB21's vertical shutter release is tempting, if it's not that noticeably larger
This thing is pretty big on its own, and the MB21's vertical shutter release is tempting, if it's not that noticeably larger
Corran
Well-known
It's a bit bigger but not as bad as an F4E. That said I don't think the vertical release justifies the extra weight. If you want bulky and a vertical release get an F5! 
I definitely prefer the F4 as possibly the slimmest pro Nikon AF SLR.
I definitely prefer the F4 as possibly the slimmest pro Nikon AF SLR.
abearman
Member
I'd gladly trade you my MB-21 for your MB-20.
ronnies
Well-known
The MB21 is taller but also thinner than the MB20 as it only needs to fit three AA batteries in the grip as opposed to four. Since I have small hands I prefer the MB21 over the MB20.
Ronnie
Ronnie
JP Owens
Well-known
It is bigger and heavier. Not much fun to carry around, in fact. Great camera functionally. Just way to heavy.
ruby.monkey
Veteran
If you find the F4 grip comfortable then the MB21 will feel too small; if the MB21 feels right then the body grip will be too bulbous.
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
You got the currently most popular package. If you want to downgrade to a F4s or F4e, you would even get some cash out of it.
Originally, the F4s accounted for the vast majority of sales (plus some F4e among professional users requiring external power supplies or rechargeable cell blocks). By now, the F4 (with MB20) has grown into the most popular version, and sells for more then the F4s and F4e - thanks to lower size and weight and the dwindling need for high frame rates in a film camera. The MB20 by itself sells for something like half or two thirds the price of a entire working F4s...
If you want one of the bigger packs, stay clear of the F4e/MB-23 - its main purpose was quick recharging of the entire battery block (plus powering the bulk film back and attaching a external power supply), but it depended on the now abolished NiCd cells (even if you rebuild a pack, the Nikon quick charger will cook modern NiMh cells). So you are left with a heavier, less handy pack that has to be pulled apart for charging just like the F4s, and whose (MS-23) battery holders are scarce as hens teeth, so that you may be stuck with the (usually dead or at least very flat) NiCd battery module.
Originally, the F4s accounted for the vast majority of sales (plus some F4e among professional users requiring external power supplies or rechargeable cell blocks). By now, the F4 (with MB20) has grown into the most popular version, and sells for more then the F4s and F4e - thanks to lower size and weight and the dwindling need for high frame rates in a film camera. The MB20 by itself sells for something like half or two thirds the price of a entire working F4s...
If you want one of the bigger packs, stay clear of the F4e/MB-23 - its main purpose was quick recharging of the entire battery block (plus powering the bulk film back and attaching a external power supply), but it depended on the now abolished NiCd cells (even if you rebuild a pack, the Nikon quick charger will cook modern NiMh cells). So you are left with a heavier, less handy pack that has to be pulled apart for charging just like the F4s, and whose (MS-23) battery holders are scarce as hens teeth, so that you may be stuck with the (usually dead or at least very flat) NiCd battery module.
GarageBoy
Well-known
I got a decent price on the F4 ($100)- but the prism has been dropped before (chip in the corner of the prism) and there's some LCD bleed
Might just pick up a cheap F4s and still be out ahead
Might just pick up a cheap F4s and still be out ahead
B-9
Devin Bro
My bigger hands always preferred the F4s layout,
Yes, it does add a considerable weight.
Such a great camera to use! Goodluck!
Yes, it does add a considerable weight.
Such a great camera to use! Goodluck!
ravilamir
Well-known
Congratulations on the F4.
A word about batteries for the MB-20.
It is my experience that it is best to use alkaline AA (4) on the MB-20.
When I use Ni-Mh batteries the F4 doesn't like them and will accuse batteries dead within hours.
Ni-Mh batteries that seem to be dead on the F4 will still work for hours on a F90X.
The reason is the lower voltage of a Ni-MH of 1.2V instead of the 1.5V of an alkaline.
Nikon doesn't exactly endorse rechargeable with the MB-20, but also doesn't say to not use them. The total voltage drops from 6V to 4.8V with Ni-Mh.
With the MB-21 (F4S) I never had a problem with rechargeable batteries. Then the MB-21 uses 6 batteries.
My suspicion is that the F4 requires a minimum of 6V to work. With the MB-20 that is what it gets. With the MB-21 voltage goes to 9V and even with Ni-MH it is still 7.2V, more than the minimum of 6V.
BTW, the MB-21 has a switch inside the grip to choose what sort of batteries are there: Alkaline or rechargeables.
A word about batteries for the MB-20.
It is my experience that it is best to use alkaline AA (4) on the MB-20.
When I use Ni-Mh batteries the F4 doesn't like them and will accuse batteries dead within hours.
Ni-Mh batteries that seem to be dead on the F4 will still work for hours on a F90X.
The reason is the lower voltage of a Ni-MH of 1.2V instead of the 1.5V of an alkaline.
Nikon doesn't exactly endorse rechargeable with the MB-20, but also doesn't say to not use them. The total voltage drops from 6V to 4.8V with Ni-Mh.
With the MB-21 (F4S) I never had a problem with rechargeable batteries. Then the MB-21 uses 6 batteries.
My suspicion is that the F4 requires a minimum of 6V to work. With the MB-20 that is what it gets. With the MB-21 voltage goes to 9V and even with Ni-MH it is still 7.2V, more than the minimum of 6V.
BTW, the MB-21 has a switch inside the grip to choose what sort of batteries are there: Alkaline or rechargeables.
Corran
Well-known
I use Eneloop rechargeable batteries with all my cameras and they work just fine in my F4. I usually have to replace them with freshly charged batteries in about 6-8 months.
I have an F4E as well and the battery is still working great. But it's so bulky.
I have an F4E as well and the battery is still working great. But it's so bulky.
Fraser
Well-known
The F4 is my all time favourite Nikon SLR, keep the Mb20 I've seen Mb20s sell for as much as a complete f4s. I dont think the plain f4 was ever sold in the usa it may have been a special order.
Here's a couple of quick pics of the difference.
15fbpicf4mb01 by f4saregreat!, on Flickr
15fbpicf4mb02 by f4saregreat!, on Flickr
Here's a couple of quick pics of the difference.
15fbpicf4mb01 by f4saregreat!, on Flickr15fbpicf4mb02 by f4saregreat!, on FlickrGarageBoy
Well-known
Thanks for the comparison pics
The evil auction site has a few nice F4 with MB20s for around $140 and that seems to be what they're selling for
Great camera for the price- minus the weight, I might like it more than the F3
The evil auction site has a few nice F4 with MB20s for around $140 and that seems to be what they're selling for
Great camera for the price- minus the weight, I might like it more than the F3
narsuitus
Well-known
The F4s (in back) uses an MB-21 battery pack (holds 6 AA batteries), fires at 5.7 frames per second, has a socket to accept a mechanical cable release, has a socket to accept an electronic remote control, and has an extra shutter release that is useful when shooting in portrait orientation.
The F4 (in front) uses an MB-20 battery pack (holds 4 AA batteries) fires at 4 frames per second but sacrifices some of the MB-21 features such as electronic remote control socket and extra shutter release in order to reduce the size and weight.
https://flic.kr/p/aq72zb
The F4 (in front) uses an MB-20 battery pack (holds 4 AA batteries) fires at 4 frames per second but sacrifices some of the MB-21 features such as electronic remote control socket and extra shutter release in order to reduce the size and weight.
https://flic.kr/p/aq72zb
Attachments
wakarimasen
Well-known
I bought an MB20, to make my F4s a little more 'portable!' With the larger grip the camera is quite a beast!
nikon_sam
Shooter of Film...
The F4e fits my hand just right, it feels very comfortable...it is heavy but I'm good with that...
nobbylon
Veteran
I know i'll get drawn and quartered for saying this but I really disliked the F4. It felt too wide and the mix of analogue controls with later mode system made it a clunky camera for me. That along with useless AF made me shift it for an F5. They are very cheap now though and if you don't need AF then it's an interesting camera.
What's good for some is bad for others
What's good for some is bad for others
GarageBoy
Well-known
I got the F4 because of Matrix metering with AI/AIS lenses (have a nice back stock of E6 film) and the AF assist with a microprism screen
I also like the LCD read outs (basically, minus the motor film advance, it's everything I wished the F3 was)
I also like the LCD read outs (basically, minus the motor film advance, it's everything I wished the F3 was)
wakarimasen
Well-known
I agree with the first comment - the grip is quite broad, and for someone with small hands it's not so comfortable.
However, I was not aware that the AF was so bad?
p.giannakis
Pan Giannakis
The F4's AF has never failed me. I own cameras such as the the Nikon F90x, the Canon EOS 5, the Dynax 700si and although it is slower compared to the newer cameras, It is more than adequate when i do street photography and need to grab a shot quickly.