Nikon SP Desilvered Split Prism

[Bill_0531]

Hi,

I've recently acquired a Nikon SP, serial #6200184, and everything works well on it. The only thing (and arguably one of the most important things) that's wrong with it is that the rangefinder patch is so dim it's almost non-existent. I cleaned the half-mirrored triangular prism (including the angled surface) and basically the entire optical path, but it did not help. One thing I noticed was that the split prism shows signs of desilvering, similar to an SLR pentaprism.

Has anyone seen anything like this? I would imagine it's almost impossible to unglue, resilver, and glue it back precisely.

Thanks.

 

[NIKON KIU]

It’s a common problem Bill!

Welcome

 

[CameraQuest]

I would not call it common, but its not unknown.

It will likely cost far less in $ and time finding a replacement finder from a parts body, than repairing it.

Stephen

 

[NIKON KIU]

6200184 finder is not as bad as some of the other ones I’ve witnessed, some have major separation causing a dark vertical line… rendering the viewfinder useless.
I think we can call it a common problem since 70-80% of them have this issue, the ones that don’t are much harder to find than the ones that do.

Kiu

 

[CameraQuest]

6200184 finder is not as bad as some of the other ones I’ve witnessed, some have major separation causing a dark vertical line… rendering the viewfinder useless.
I think we can call it a common problem since 70-80% of them have this issue, the ones that don’t are much harder to find than the ones that do.

Kiu

70-80 % ?? My experience is more like 5%. None of my SP's have separated finders.

 

[NIKON KIU]

I’m an eBay nut, so most of my experience comes from the listings or the ones I’ve seen in person or owned. May be I’m exaggerating and it’s more like 50%
I’ve noticed the late model cameras have less of this issue.

There is an eBay seller in Japan, lists CLA’d Nikon SPs…at attractive prices!
But there is almost always this disclosure:

***Note***
Mold and haze on the viewfinder have been removed at overhaul.
Some debris remains in the wide-angle viewfinder.
There is some coating deterioration on the main viewfinder prism.
The rangefinder has been adjusted.
⇒Infinity is accurate.
*Double image is a little thin.

 

[TenEleven]

I know a sample size of two is not "data" but neither of my SPs have this problem. Both were given a good bill of health by the ex Nikon engineers that serviced both of these bodies.

I have also seen countless more of these in person in the shops. Most had OK finders, but there certainly is variation as to the overall brightness and contrast even in fully clean examples. I personally have seen separation this bad maybe once or twice.

The patch is always a little dim on the S3/SP/S4 which all share a similar finder construction. The same is true for the Canon P/6L etc. as well which again follow a similar philosophy in construction. Basically, in the quest of making the finder brighter and more life-size something had to give and that something was patch contrast. You can always pop in a gel filter as @jonmanjiro posted ages ago and dim the finder a bit and get better contrast.

By comparison, the S2 series always has a nice patch.

 

[TenEleven]

Forgot to mention, Bill you could try Kanto Camera in Japan. kantocamera.com

Be advised that Kanto, if they agree to do it, are not going to be cheap. It might be more economical to just source a parts body yourself - seeing how you had it apart already. You seem fine doing the replacement on your own. As you likely know, the rangefinder comes out as a unit. I would just replace it wholesale and not bother with it any further.

Also Nikon Kiu, I don't think you're hallucinating, by the way.
I am sure that there are this many SPs with messed up finders out on "the bay" now. Japan has faced a huge influx of tourists on top of the cheap yen, which has lead to everyone emptying out their drawers since the nice condition cameras and good deals are gone. I also do believe that the good gear is not going to come back onto the market in any measurable quantity. At least in Japan.

I can understand the impetus for people holding onto the good stuff they have as I am in a similar situation. Holding onto gear that I am not using much, hesitating to sell; Simply motivated by the rarity and the knowledge that once it's sold it's gone for good. I won't be able to get it back in similar condition -- for any amount of money.

 

[Bill_0531]

Forgot to mention, Bill you could try Kanto Camera in Japan. kantocamera.com

Be advised that Kanto, if they agree to do it, are not going to be cheap. It might be more economical to just source a parts body yourself - seeing how you had it apart already. You seem fine doing the replacement on your own. As you likely know, the rangefinder comes out as a unit. I would just replace it wholesale and not bother with it any further.

Also Nikon Kiu, I don't think you're hallucinating, by the way.
I am sure that there are this many SPs with messed up finders out on "the bay" now. Japan has faced a huge influx of tourists on top of the cheap yen, which has lead to everyone emptying out their drawers since the nice condition cameras and good deals are gone. I also do believe that the good gear is not going to come back onto the market in any measurable quantity. At least in Japan.

I can understand the impetus for people holding onto the good stuff they have as I am in a similar situation. Holding onto gear that I am not using much, hesitating to sell; Simply motivated by the rarity and the knowledge that once it's sold it's gone for good. I won't be able to get it back in similar condition -- for any amount of money.

Thanks, I have reached out to Kanto Camera and currently waiting for repair. If the price comes down to under a $400 I'll send the camera to them.

I have also found a Chinese technician that claims that he is able to take the prism apart and reapply the coating, which is interesting.

Best,
Bill

 

[Bill_0531]

Quick update:

I got the reply from Kanto Camera, and TL;DR: "It will cost over 200k JPY (~$1350USD), just go find another one."
Guess I'll go with the Chinese technician route.

Bill

 

[TenEleven]

Yeah that's what I feared .. they really jacked up the prices recently... sigh .. glad I got in under the wire with my totally messed up but extremely rare Canon L1 in black

 

[NIKON KIU]

A couple of decades ago, I had a internet friend in New England, his name Don, dealt in used firearms (he found me an over-under), he had the same issue with his SP, badly de-silvered mirror and separating…after a bunch of emails back and forth, he victoriously claimed he found someone that did it for him!
I regret not saving the repairman.

May be I send and email to the old internet friend.

Kiu

 

[Archlich]

Quick update:

I got the reply from Kanto Camera, and TL;DR: "It will cost over 200k JPY (~$1350USD), just go find another one."
Guess I'll go with the Chinese technician route.

Bill

Years ago I had a Chinese techician resilvered the beam splitter (don't remember the details but it was a really simple setup) in my Plaubel Makina II to great success - also for pennies. Less than $100 if memory serves.

The kind of parts and services the Chinese photographica scene can offer had exploded since then. Quality may vary depending on the individuals, but I think you'll be fine.

 

[armadsen]

Can you please share the name/contact info of the Chinese technician being mentioned? I promise I’ll wait until your camera is in the queue before I send mine to him 😜

 

[NIKON KIU]

I know a sample size of two is not "data" but neither of my SPs have this problem…..
By comparison, the S2 series always has a nice patch.

Between you and the head bartender, you have the market cornered!

That’s why there aren’t any good ones left!

But seriously, until you look through a repro S3 or SP, you won’t know the difference.
I had a good SP but it was nothing compared to the new stuff.
The patch can be as good as an old S2!

They are ALL a bit dim!
The S in most cases has a better patch, S2 is even better.

Two hundred thousand yenners minimum.

Kiu

 

[TenEleven]

Yeah the new reissue SPs have a slightly nicer finder overall, less flare too.
I had them side by side - to me - inside the shop which was well lit, the difference was noticeable. However, I would not describe it as night and day.

The most noticeable difference was in the wide angle finder I thought.
Which made a lot of sense to me - there's a lot of glass in that auxiliary finder, so the coatings really help.

Edit: there's also a thing as "too much" - the Canon L1 which Kanto replaced with a modern prism now has so much rangefinder contrast that the patch "overwrites" dim subjects in the finder. I actually put a cut piece of Wratten filter gel into the RF window to tame it back down - a first.

 

[38Deardorff]

Thanks, I have reached out to Kanto Camera and currently waiting for repair. If the price comes down to under a $400 I'll send the camera to them.

I have also found a Chinese technician that claims that he is able to take the prism apart and reapply the coating, which is interesting.

Best,
Bill

Bill, $400 is a big expectation, considering an average Leica CLA by anyone of note is $500....without any specialized parts.
Kanto is a specialized place offering bespoke service,doing what others can't or won't. The cost of living in Japan is higher than China where someone unknown is working on your camera.
I'm not surprise at their $1400 quote.