Nikon SP -- how good are the cloth curtains?

[Pirate]

I'm still looking into getting a Rangefinder and just came across the Nikon SP line. I like that it's the precursor to the Nikon F line, of which I own an F4e, so I'm wondering, if I get an older SP with the cloth curtain, how well have they stood the test of time? Do they still work well or do they generally need replacing these days?

Thanks,
P^)

 

[Tom A]

Unless they have been "burned" or the camera has sat idle for a very long time (the curtains gets a bit stiff with age if not used) - they are very resilient. Of all the Nikon Rf's I have or have owned - i only have had to replace the curtains on one of them - and that was from 'inactivity". The cloth curtain also is a bit quieter than the titanium one. As long as the finder is nice and bright and the "patch" is clear - and the speeds are right - go for it.
I nave found that the Nikon Rf's do age better than the M-type Leicas. Any M that I get usually needs a CLA of some kind (speeds/finder clean/ occasionally shutter curtains) but most of the Nikon's that I have have worked without a problem. Occasionally you can have "capping" at either slow or high speeds but even that is rare.

 

[NIKON KIU]

The curtains are still OK, most have held up pretty good. Unless someone was careless, pointd the camera in the Sun's direction too long and burned a pin-hole in the cloth. Also note later SP's have Titanium Curtains. Just make sure the cloth curtains don't have holes.
.

Kiu

 

[BillBingham2]

He could send in an old F and have a shutter transplant done!

B2 (;->

 

[Pirate]

So I may need to get the cloth curtain fixed (a possibility). Ok, you're saying they have the metal curtains available for this swap?

Has anyone here had it done? Any ideas on the cost? --probably not as I'm in Europe and not the States.

 

[BillBingham2]

Kiu, Fred, Tom, Ferris,

Can you give something more than 4th party hear say that I would be able to add?

Please?

B2

 

[Tom A]

I have a S4 with titanium curtains. It was a transplant made by a friend of mine in Tokyo (Shintaro). Works fine, though it can hang up occasionally on the slow speeds. Dont know what the cost would be and if you can still get titanium curtains from Nikon.
I would not fret too much about cloth visa-vi titanium. If the curtains are fine now - they should work for a long time - be they cloth or titanium. If the price is right for the SP - go for it and enjoy it.

 

[TWoK]

You can pick up a parts Nikon F for less than $40 most of the time to pull the curtains out of.

 

[jonmanjiro]

So I may need to get the cloth curtain fixed (a possibility). Ok, you're saying they have the metal curtains available for this swap?

Has anyone here had it done? Any ideas on the cost? --probably not as I'm in Europe and not the States.

As the other posters have said, my experience is that the cloth shutter curtains in vintage Nikon RFs are generally still going strong so rarely need replacing. However, if they do need replacing, the usual procedure is to use the titanium shutter curtains from a donor Nikon F. Nikon F shutter curtains are a little longer so need trimming along the non-crimped side edge (2 second's work), but are otherwise the same. Camera Quest will install them for $175 (see here).

Out of curiosity, I asked the Nikon RF specialist at Kiitos Camera in Tokyo if titanium shutter curtains from a Nikon F can also be installed in the reissue Nikon RFs (S3 2000, S3 Ltd. Black, SP 2005), and he said there was no problem at all. FYI Kiitos Camera is the famous Nikon camera repair shop run by ex-Nikon guys and located just a stone's throw from the Nikon 101 building where all the rangefinders were manufactured.

I have a set of NOS Nikon F curtains ready to install in my Nikon SP 2005 one of these days 🙂

 

[jonmanjiro]

Also note later SP's have Titanium Curtains.

Nikon SP's with a s/n from 6214000 onwards have titanium shutters, and you can sometimes find an earlier s/n SP that has been converted to titanium shutters already. Nikon used to do this as a part of their aftersales service but stopped in the mid-1990's.

Besides the titanium shutter, another reason to go for a later SP is that the design of the gears in the film rewind mechanism is improved. Some earlier SPs had problems with one of the gears in the rewind mechanism stripping so you couldn't rewind your film. That was rectified in the later models.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

I have three vintage Nikon SP's with Titanium Curtains and sold a 4th with Cloth curtains. I also have 2 vintage S3's, an S4, and 5 S2's all with cloth curtains. No problems with any of them, all original curtains. The cloth curtains are quiter.

However: the RF patch in all three titanium-curtain SP's are brighter than the older one that I owned and two others handled at shows, and were as good those in an SP-2005. I'm guessing that the prisms were improved, but it could have just been dumb luck. Be sure to check out the RF patch, it is more likely to have faded than the curtains giving problems.

 

[jonmanjiro]

I have three vintage Nikon SP's with Titanium Curtains and sold a 4th with Cloth curtains. I also have 2 vintage S3's, an S4, and 5 S2's all with cloth curtains. No problems with any of them, all original curtains. The cloth curtains are quiter.

However: the RF patch in all three titanium-curtain SP's are brighter than the older one that I owned and two others handled at shows, and were as good those in an SP-2005. I'm guessing that the prisms were improved, but it could have just been dumb luck. Be sure to check out the RF patch, it is more likely to have faded than the curtains giving problems.

I have a very early Nikon SP (6200308!) that has a focus patch on par with my SP 2005 so you can get lucky even with the older SPs. The area where the SP 2005 finder really shines though is flare resistance. I discovered this a while back while photographing at Tsukiji fish markets with an early vintage SP and an SP 2005. The fish markets are basically a big dark warehouse lit up with bright lights at each stall. The SP 2005 finder handled the mixed lighting with ease, the vintage finder flared like crazy. I could still focus just fine, though.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

I've read on cameraquest.com that the earliest SP's had a brighter patch.

http://cameraquest.com/nrfspv.htm

I suspect the latest SP's went back to the earlier beamsplitting ratio?

 

[jonmanjiro]

There may have been a change in the beam splitting ratio, though I have seen a few early SPs not from the first batch with good RF patches (digitalintrigue also has mentioned that the RF patch on his early SP was close to his SP 2005). Still , its probably fair to say that the percentage of early SPs with faded focus patches is noticeably higher than the percentage of late SPs with faded focus patches.

 

[CameraQuest]

I'm still looking into getting a Rangefinder and just came across the Nikon SP line. I like that it's the precursor to the Nikon F line, of which I own an F4e, so I'm wondering, if I get an older SP with the cloth curtain, how well have they stood the test of time? Do they still work well or do they generally need replacing these days?

Thanks,
P^)

Nikon SP curtains generally last longer than Leica M curtains. Unless they are damaged, I would not think of replacing them.

Stephen

 

[jmkelly]

I did not know Stephen did the titanium curtain transplant; now I do 🙂. Ken Ruth also will do it.

 

[Palaeoboy]

The only issue with the cloth curtains is that they have to be replaced with titanium curtains unless it is one of the new ones where Nikon parts are available.

Nikon uses a crimped cloth, not stitched, so only factory replacements work.

Are you sure about that? Although a few years ago now, I have had the cloth curtains changed in my S3 twice. I bought it with a patched curtain and had my local repairer here in Australia replace it with a new one, I then burnt a hole in it a few months later and asked the same repairer to replace it again. I asked him if he had another curtain when I took it the second time and he said yes and produced a dozen or so curtains wrapped in a wax brown paper. Im fairly certain they were just a generic cloth curtain he adapted for different cameras. It works perfectly.

 

[Pirate]

Any chance I could get his name and address.... you know, "just in case"?

 

[enasniearth]

curtain

curtain

i am sure that on a replacement you can select cloth or titanium ,, the point is that the crimp has to be opened to change the curtain ------ so most would replace with the metal type if availible ---- so not have to replace twice .



the curtains used in nikon cameras are silk and very high quality --- they do not often need replacement . the nikon s has some issues as it is an early nikon .it is the only one i have seen with shutter deteariation problems .storage is a problem with any old rf camera . in reality the nikon cameras hold up better over time than the other ( leica and canon ) cameras .



the nikon sp's that i have seen do not often need a curtain .
the issue is more of the finder picking up haze due to the many surfaces .
and the finder often needs serviced for a bright rf spot and easy to use veiwing .

other nikon users are welcome to disagree .

 

[jonmanjiro]

i am sure that on a replacement you can select cloth or titanium ,, the point is that the crimp has to be opened to change the curtain ------ so most would replace with the metal type if availible ---- so not have to replace twice .



the curtains used in nikon cameras are silk and very high quality --- they do not often need replacement . the nikon s has some issues as it is an early nikon .it is the only one i have seen with shutter deteariation problems .storage is a problem with any old rf camera . in reality the nikon cameras hold up better over time than the other ( leica and canon ) cameras .



the nikon sp's that i have seen do not often need a curtain .
the issue is more of the finder picking up haze due to the many surfaces .
and the finder often needs serviced for a bright rf spot and easy to use veiwing .

other nikon users are welcome to disagree .

this nikon user agrees 🙂

i would only add that by using titanium shutter curtains from a Nikon F donor, the hassle of opening and closing the crimp can be avoided, and the shutter curtain material can be upgraded to something pretty much indestructable (no more need to worry about burning a hole in the curtains!). i think most repairers would go for this if the option was available. if not, opening the crimp, replacing the cloth shutter material, then closing the crimp works just fine.

the S cameras are known for their "weaker" shutter, but i have also seen shutter deterioration problems in several SPs, S2s, and S3s. however, in each case the reason for the problem was fungus on the shutter curtain. silk and fungus don't go well together. the climate in Japan is very humid though, so there's probably more cases of that here than most places.