No light meter.....liberating???

I just recently bought a small handheld incident meter to replace one that broke about seven or eight years ago. I shoot only meterless cameras and relied on experience over the past half-dozen years. I didn't miss any shots for exposure reasons -- using mainly 400-speed negative film. But I do find I'm a little quicker now that I have a meter again and don't have to do so much calculation in my head.

For color slides (or digital shot on M) I'd very much want to use an accurate meter. I started using meterless cameras close to 20 years ago and did find it liberating not to be "chasing" the needle or diodes.

I think that difficult light is difficult light, regardless of whether you're using a meter or calculating based on experience. That part of photographic craftsmanship that depends on learning and mastering skills includes learning to judge different light conditions. Nearly all the metering advances in camera technology the past 30 years have been based on helping a TTL meter read light as accurately as a handheld incident meter or the sunny-16 rule.

For learning to judge light yourself, it's useful to realize that, with 400-speed film, there are only 14 total f/stop-shutter-speed combinations that fall into the handholdable range of 1/8th second at f/1.4 to 1000 @ f/16. With Sunny-16, I used two mental anchors, not one. Sunny-16 (and it's corrolary, Winter Gloom 4, which is a typical overcast day) plus indoors f/4, which is a brightly lit indoor office or "Rembrandt" light from a north-facing window, at a shutter speed of 1/60. The indoor-4 rule is very helpful for things llike dark forests, where you can learn to judge whether it seems to be as bright as a well-lit room.
 
I believe in using your meter once at the beginning of the shot and then adjusting for darker objects shadows etc.When I shoot outdoors with meterless cameras I rarely use a meter at all,only when difficult lighting conditions arise.
 
Yes, like Vince I have more than 1 exposure anchor point. Mine are (with 400asa film)

1/1000sec at f11 for sunny day,

open up 3 stops from that for open shade, so 1/250 at f8

1/60 at f4 for diffused windowlight and bight interior flourescents, and

1/30 at f2 for household light.
 
I pretty much go by the same standards Frank does and hardly pull out a meter anymore, but I *am* going to have to start since I want to push a lot of my film. The Ultimate Exposure Calculator (hopefully everyone knows where that is by now) helps out a bit, too. I keep a copy of it in my 'camera bag' just in case I forget something. :)
 
I think you're a slave to a light meter (built-in or external) only so far as you misunderstand – or are mystified by – what it's attempting to tell you. Learn a particular metering system's characteristics, and its relationship to what you want, and you'll be led by the nose no longer.

Even though my first 35 had a built-in meter (see thread on "What was your first RF?"), that only one of all the 35s I've owned since then was meterless, and that every camera I currently own has AE capability, I also got myself a handheld meter about two years ago (used Sekonic L428 with spot, reflective and enlarger attachments), which has come in handy on more occasions than I might've guessed.


- Barrett
 
I think AE is a great thing, if you know how to use it properly. In many cases that means pointing the camera and taking a reading (and holding that reading) from something quite different than the scene you will actually be shooting.
 
i'm using the meter in the zi the same way as i use a handheld. i point it to the ground, hit the ae lock button and compose and shoot.

i like not having a meter in the camera but i have to admit that it's nice not having to carry an extra item when travelling w/o a bag or with just one camera and one lens.
 
I used to have a great eye for exposure (at least good enough fro Tri-X), but sadly that's a skill that left the building. I do find that I prefer to take incident readings rather than use a TTL meter. Hopefully I can get the eye back with more regular shooting - at least good enough for XP-2 Super!

But, yes - I agree - working without a meter can be liberating!
 
Ken, you can use the camera's TTL reflect light meter like an incident meter by pointing the camera to a medium grey reflecting surface, like the ground. :)

I always thought it funny to see (usually photo students) carry around and take readings from grey cards, when there is so much around that has a similar refectance.
 
At least once a year I make myself shoot a roll of chrome under a variety of light
values, sans meter--no cheating. I've never gotten a "perfect" roll, but I do OK.

Fred
 
FrankS: >>I think AE is a great thing, if you know how to use it properly. In many cases that means pointing the camera and taking a reading (and holding that reading) from something quite different than the scene you will actually be shooting.<<

That's really the trick for using any in-camera metering system. That'salso how I stay sane with my digital point-and-shoot.
 
FrankS said:
Ken, you can use the camera's TTL reflect light meter like an incident meter by pointing the camera to a medium grey reflecting surface, like the ground. :)

I always thought it funny to see (usually photo students) carry around and take readings from grey cards, when there is so much around that has a similar refectance.
Click to expand...

That's what I frequently do when I don't have an incident meter with me. Shoot my palm and stop down 2/3 of a stop. However, that's not an option when I shoot my F2 bodies - no meter at all!

Having a M body with a meter is going to be an odd experience...
 
barry said:
I
Well, it seems that the lack of "fine tuning" ability has actually improved my results. I noticed when I was shooting that I was less distracted. I was better able to focus on my composition.
barry
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If so, your consequence should be an AE camera but not to guess the light.

Bertram
 
Bertram2 said:
If so, your consequence should be an AE camera but not to guess the light.

Bertram
Click to expand...


Hmmm....There's a point there in favor of AE. But a great deal of my enjoyment of the photographic process is full control. I see it as taking an image and transferring my brain's interpretation of that image onto a light sensitive emulsion. I realize the true test of one's art is in the results. But somehow letting the camera make some of the decisions lessens my reward.
That, and of course the fact that AE cameras are battery dependent. So when I'm in the Arctic Circle or on a remote stretch of the the Serengeti and my batteries fail. Or I'm hunkered down in my foxhole during active combat and my CPU goes haywire.................................................

Sorry. I must have dozed off there for a moment. Well, you know what I mean.

barry
 
Hey Barry--I notice you are from Atlanta and that you have a "new" M2.
Did it come from Wing's foto by any chance? They had a really nice one for a while--maybe that's yours now!
Paul
 
Paulbe said:
Hey Barry--I notice you are from Atlanta and that you have a "new" M2.
Did it come from Wing's foto by any chance? They had a really nice one for a while--maybe that's yours now!
Paul
Click to expand...

Yes. That's the one. It came with the 80's tabbed summicron.

Was it yours??? ;)

b
 
barry said:
But a great deal of my enjoyment of the photographic process is full control.
barry
Click to expand...

I think I see what you mean. But is guessing light "full control" ? And if you must grab your shot within a second, won't AE guess ( and set !!) better and faster than you can ?
The idea of "liberation" is nice (and pointing to the right direction in principle !) but you always pay for it. With lost or messed up results. If that does'nt really matter for a photog the total freedom can come with a disposable camera too. ;)

Bertram
 
Bertram2 said:
I think I see what you mean. But is guessing light "full control" ?

I don't consider estimating an exposure "guessing". AE meters don't know what you want to put on the film. Some exposure compensation is often required. I prefer to set it manually from the start. The observation that led to my original post was after setting the exposure, I have a tendency to let the meter distract me.
Let's say you use a built in exposure meter. You meter a backlit subject. As you recompose, the meter will now show overexposure. (Provided you were not atttempting a silhouette shot). Should this distract me? No. As Frank pointed out in an earlier post one should not "chase the needle". In practice does this create another variable that draws my attention away from the subject? Maybe.
Would I shun an external meter in favor of an estimate based on prior experience? No. I just don't currently own one. It does seem like a good compromise though. Use an external meter for the original reading. Get confirmation of correct exposure early on and make any subtle changes based on experience. No blinking arrows in the viewfinder to tempt you into taking another reading. Any recommendations for a small (cheap) handheld meter? Not really interested in the shoe mounted meters Leica or VC.
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FrankS said:
Ken, you can use the camera's TTL reflect light meter like an incident meter by pointing the camera to a medium grey reflecting surface, like the ground. :)

I always thought it funny to see (usually photo students) carry around and take readings from grey cards, when there is so much around that has a similar refectance.
Click to expand...

Hi Frank! I shoot with a VC meter and I've always been shooting my palm. I usually take a reading with my palm at an angle (upward). I think I get a decent enough reading although I wonder if I should be taking a reading off the back of my hand. The reading off of the back of my hand is a whole stop different from my palms. I've always wanted a small incident meter like a Gossen Digisix but your advice gives me a little more confidence in the equipment I already own.

I will try taking a reading off the ground on my next roll. Just one question, when you mean "ground" do you mean concrete?

Thanks!

Taffy
Philippines
 
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