eleskin
Well-known
Well, the Nex 7 is out and there are rumors of a full frame model in 2012. I own 2 M8's and have tested the M9 a few times, and let me tell you, I am very excited of the prospect of pro level mirrorless designs at affordable prices offering different features from what we see from Leica. Don't get me wrong, I love my M8's and other rangefinders that I have used in the past, but now, I see many more ways I can use my very costly Leica M lens investment than Leica has to offer at much more affordable prices.
For me, glass is king, and Leica glass (Voigtlander, Zeiss, etc too) is my true passion more than the cameras I mount them on.
When I look at the ISO specs of the Nex 7 and imagine that with my Noctilux and Nokton high speed lenses, king of the night takes on a whole new meaning.
Quite frankly, sometimes I find the rangefinder method annoying at f1.0 in certain situations and feel what Sony has done with the Nex 7 with focus, high ISO, etc,, will create more keepers in focus with a NOCTILUX (moving subjects especially children will work better with Sony's system).
Cost wise, at $1,100 or so, the Nex 7 gives much more capability for price than any M mount digital. Full frame , when it comes, will probably cost $2000, again, a great price. Savings for me are for more lenses not camera bodies!!!!
For me, glass is king, and Leica glass (Voigtlander, Zeiss, etc too) is my true passion more than the cameras I mount them on.
When I look at the ISO specs of the Nex 7 and imagine that with my Noctilux and Nokton high speed lenses, king of the night takes on a whole new meaning.
Quite frankly, sometimes I find the rangefinder method annoying at f1.0 in certain situations and feel what Sony has done with the Nex 7 with focus, high ISO, etc,, will create more keepers in focus with a NOCTILUX (moving subjects especially children will work better with Sony's system).
Cost wise, at $1,100 or so, the Nex 7 gives much more capability for price than any M mount digital. Full frame , when it comes, will probably cost $2000, again, a great price. Savings for me are for more lenses not camera bodies!!!!
alien8
Established
Why do you think there will be a full frame nex? I know that there are strong indications that there will be a full frame SLT camera from Sony in 2012, but I've only come across indications about a full frame NEX on this forum. Do you have any links to share? Just curious. Would be great if it were true, but I'm not holding my breath.
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Roger Hicks
Veteran
I'm cautiously excited...not as a M9 replacement but for a camera to have a built in EVF that could possibly be usable, giving me high ISO and a small body.
bwcolor
Veteran
To put this another way, why wouldn't they come out with a SLR and NEX solution in full frame, much as they have done with their just announced cameras? If they develop the full frame sensor, processor, etc.., why not take this investment of capital and recoup cost in two separate products? Perhaps in the end, we won't have the NEX lens mount, but why would they redesign the mount for full frame? The only answer that I can think of is to prevent the mounting of the present NEX lenses, which would not work properly with a full frame sensor.
jarski
Veteran
IIRC, NEX mount already supports full frame size sensor. current lenses maybe not, but mount itself is wide enough (?)
Dr Gaspar
Established
It's not like the NEX cameras have an arsenal of lenses. We are talking about three, four lenses, and neither of those are close to being great. So, why not?
Haven't seen any credible rumors of a full frame NEX.
Not sure how it's any easier to shoot kids at f/1 on a NEX vs an M? That's a tall order for any camera, even an autofocus camera with an F/1 lens.
Not sure how it's any easier to shoot kids at f/1 on a NEX vs an M? That's a tall order for any camera, even an autofocus camera with an F/1 lens.
leicashot
Well-known
Full frame or not, users will not experience better pictures, contrary to popular belief. Whatever the NEX 8 will/may have, it's not why die hard Leica M 'users' chose the Leica M8/9. There is still no other M mount 'rangefinder' available, among other M benefits.
There will always be a more 'feature-capable' camera out there, and there will always be 'better photographers' just wanting/needing simplicity. That is what the M is about, making the photographer do the work, photography in it's simplest form - a lightbox, aperture, shutter and lens.
I know I keep saying it, but 'better cameras' MAY take 'better files', but 'better photographers' take 'better pictures'. The less 'features/buttons/options' the photographer has to think about, the more he/she can concentrate on making a great picture. This is the way it started, and I sure hope this is the way it will continue, at least with Leica's design philosophy.
Therefor I'm saying that the NEX will be a great small mirror-less camera, but it shouldn't be compared to the Leica M cameras, and vice versa. The size is the only thing they have in common. Both systems are great for different reasons but the NEX cannot replace an M9 unless the user wants a totally different camera/style of shooting.
There will always be a more 'feature-capable' camera out there, and there will always be 'better photographers' just wanting/needing simplicity. That is what the M is about, making the photographer do the work, photography in it's simplest form - a lightbox, aperture, shutter and lens.
I know I keep saying it, but 'better cameras' MAY take 'better files', but 'better photographers' take 'better pictures'. The less 'features/buttons/options' the photographer has to think about, the more he/she can concentrate on making a great picture. This is the way it started, and I sure hope this is the way it will continue, at least with Leica's design philosophy.
Therefor I'm saying that the NEX will be a great small mirror-less camera, but it shouldn't be compared to the Leica M cameras, and vice versa. The size is the only thing they have in common. Both systems are great for different reasons but the NEX cannot replace an M9 unless the user wants a totally different camera/style of shooting.
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ramosa
B&W
The only FF I'm excited about for 2012 is the M10 
bwcolor
Veteran
Yes, that is my point. I think that we will see a full frame NEX. With likely (September 2012) mirrorless full frame cameras from at least one of the following manufacturers .. Leica, Fujifilm, or Sony, it has me wondering if I want to buy another interim camera...the NEX-7.
The NEX is already full frame with its native lenses.
porktaco
Well-known
are you asking about shallow DoF or about motion capture/autofocus?
AlexanderR
Established
No full frame NEX. Biggest NEX complaint is already lens size when compared with other mirrorless systems.
D3s w/50 f1.4 is better at shooting at night than any Noctilux and camera combo currently on the market.
D3s w/50 f1.4 is better at shooting at night than any Noctilux and camera combo currently on the market.
bwcolor
Veteran
I doubt that a full frame camera would be serving the same market. I would think that the small lens group would gravitate to the myriad of smaller lens/camera systems. If NEX is seen as a purely consumer product line, then the full frame will be marketed under a different name.
leicashot
Well-known
Agree 100%
alien8
Established
Full frame mirrorless is likely in Sept. 2012? What is your reasoning for that conclusion? Or, what sources of information do you have to support that? I wish for full frame mirrorless, but to date I have seen no credible information that suggests it will happen, in any timeframe.
As far as I can tell, the major advantage for full frame over aps is more selective focus (less depth of field). I doubt that the marketing departments of the companies you mention will roll out whole new lines of cameras and lenses just to achieve that end for a small niche market.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
The essence of the NEX cameras is the Exmor backlit CMos sensor - a wonderful development, however the sensor is too weak mechanically to be able to be used as full frame. If Sony develops a stronger substrate the next generation might be, but I would not be surprised if that took quite a few years to materialize. If and when it does, it would be very interesting for Leica in the M11?12?. Which would reshuffle the market.
Anyway, before that time we will have seen the M10 emerge, nearly certainly with a CMos sensor, with all that that implies, like a different noise behaviour (note that I do not say better, as I am very doubtful about high ISO on the current Canon and Nikon offerings regarding color and detail) that is more suited to the average perception of the market, live view, etc.
As the Nexes of this world will never offer a rangefinder optical viewfinder nor the image style and quality Leica provides, the M niche will remain intact.
Anyway, before that time we will have seen the M10 emerge, nearly certainly with a CMos sensor, with all that that implies, like a different noise behaviour (note that I do not say better, as I am very doubtful about high ISO on the current Canon and Nikon offerings regarding color and detail) that is more suited to the average perception of the market, live view, etc.
As the Nexes of this world will never offer a rangefinder optical viewfinder nor the image style and quality Leica provides, the M niche will remain intact.
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bwcolor
Veteran
I believe that it was sonyalpharumors where I read about this. I have no idea if this is a credible source. I don't think that companies are going to build a full frame camera to make money. They do it as a marketing tool demonstrating their technological expertise. I doubt that the M9 will remain as the only full frame mirrorless camera, but in the tough economy, practicality might just win out and you will be proven correct. I'm hoping that at least one new full frame camera that accepts 'M' lenses is introduced in 2012. Leica is a likely candidate for an M10, or their hinted at new system of unknown sensor size. Fujifilm recently introduced a medium format film camera... how does that make marketing sense? They might just spring for a full frame camera with simple controls. Sony.. I haven't really followed them much.. They certainly have the expertise to do it.
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leicashot
Well-known
Guys, why even waste so much time on speculation. We should be out shooting with what's available now