'No Name' Contax....

Vince Lupo

Vince Lupo

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Not sure whether to have put this in the Zeiss Contax section or the Russian FSU section, so we'll try it here....

Anyone have any knowledge of these 'no name' Contax cameras? I understand they were made in the early 1960's, but does anyone have any idea of how many were made? Are they especially rare and valuable? I'm looking at one now, and it's in relatively decent shape (comes with the lens), but not sure if they're worth pursuing or not.

If anyone has any kernels of wisdom they'd be willing to share, I'd be greatly appreciative!
 
Well, according to the Sovietcams article, there were around 5,000 made. Some of those could have been engraved later on to look like a Contax (how many times have I read about someone sending their II in for repair, only to find out its a Kiev). So hard to tell how many still exist in their original guise.

PF
 
It was made for an american importer who could not decide if it could be sold as a "contax", the metal frontpiece would have been easy to replace/Engrave. There is a nice sidestory from Finland: Our main Contax repair/Tech guy was asked by the russkis, if he would tune one of the old WWII army Contaxes with Kiev front plate with Kiev engravings, so they could send them to USA for camera tests. They knew from previous "tests" that the Kiev original condition would be subject to non approval, and the smell of the oils already would put off the testers.. Even offered nice money, kauko tanner, the tecnican denied. You know, the russkis made a huge mistake: Contax was deliberately designed by Zeiss to be complicated, serviced mostly by the factory. The Russkis had much better luck with leica copies, plenty of them and very simple mechanically. Of couse they goofed the lensmount... It was by the specs partly zeiss/partly leica. Nikon was much smarter. They made different lenses for these two specs, Contax/Kiev marked clearly with "C". Nikkors with leica thread were for leicas in reality, not working propely with "russian leicas"
 
It is a interesting item if you collect Kiev or Contax. It is also nice to have the matching Jena lens.
For the value, I can't say. I'd give it no more than 150-200USD with the lens if it is nice and working. But there is no "official" value, and it is just a Kiev 4a with a blank nameplate.
 
The "No-Name Contax" is also described in Kuc's work "Auf den Spuren der Contax", vol. II.

Actually, that camera can't be mixed with the Contax IIa, this one being of a completely different design, compared to the Contax-II/III - Kiev system.

Interesting, the story of the Contax-II to be Kievized and tested in the USA!...

E.L.
 
farlymac said:
Some of those could have been engraved later on to look like a Contax (how many times have I read about someone sending their IIa in for repair, only to find out its a Kiev).
Click to expand...

It is hard to believe that - the IIa is almost entirely different, a much smaller camera size with quite obviously different layout and finder/rangefinder window locations.

The typical fake is a Kiev 2/3 rebuilt into a fake Contax II/III. When prices of the former rose by the mid nineties, production of new fakes stopped, as the conversion effort into a credible Contax grew unprofitable.

Only a few fakers continued, turning towards rebuilding the still cheap Kiev 4 and 4M into fantasy cameras with no resemblance to anything that actually ever existed, e.g. black, gold, with swastika engravings or fancy leather.

I have encountered a few examples of what may have been attempts to turn a Kiev 4 into a Contax II, but these were so half-hearted that they may as well have been intended as mere repairs for use, utilizing parts from a Contax-dressed 2/3. And I've never seen any attempt to dress a Kiev as a IIa/IIIa.

Back to the no-name Kiev - there are indications that at least part of them were sold through West German mail order retailer Neckermann, who in their turn frequently acted as an outlet for the GDR foreign export organization. It has been proposed that the latter purchased the no-name Kievs from the USSR to bundle their remaining Contax Sonnars with, which had become dead inventory after Zeiss Ikon Stuttgart had discontinued the Contax IIa/IIIa.

A after-market "made in USSR occupied Germany" by some importer does fit into that. The direct origin of the camera/lens kit would have been the GDR and where the cameras came from might have been hidden from the importers. Besides, the customs authorities of many countries demanded that socialist imports be branded with some sales deterring mark of origin, and West Germany and its allies generally refused to acknowledge the existence of the GDR, calling it "Soviet occupied Zone" ("SBZ") respectively "USSR occupied Germany" instead. The use of the latter rather than the former makes it more likely that the engravings were done by a US or Commonwealth importer than in West Germany, by the way.
 
If I have the opportunity to post photos of the camera combo, I will. This is quite an interesting discussion, and certainly an intriguing chapter in camera history. Even more interesting is the fact that these cameras were delivered with real Zeiss Sonnar lenses (and probably adding to the confusion!).
 
Also a note of interest with "political overtones" was a fact that leica, after the war, got the prduction underway very quickly. Also they were able to design a completely NEW camera the M3 so quickly, getting it on market only eight years after the war. Russkis were hacking out the Kievs and leica screw mount copies well into seventies and beyond... thirty years after taking over the tools..
 
Rangefinderfreak said:
Also a note of interest with "political overtones" was a fact that leica, after the war, got the prduction underway very quickly. Also they were able to design a completely NEW camera the M3 so quickly, getting it on market only eight years after the war. Russkis were hacking out the Kievs and leica screw mount copies well into seventies and beyond... thirty years after taking over the tools..
Click to expand...

But that was a matter of the cold war, not unique to the USSR. The optical industry in the US, UK and France went quite similar ways, with all research and money going into spy satellites and rocket navigation systems while their cameras stalled at about the state of the art of 1942.

Germany (both sides - indeed the camera industry in the socialist East proved to be successful for longer than that in Western Germany) and even more so Japan did benefit massively from having set up a huge high-tech industry for the war, which had little other options than to turn towards developing new consumer goods after the countries were demilitarized, while the intellectual drain towards the military-industrial complex continued in the nuclear powers of the period.
 
So I managed to get some photos together of this very interesting camera.....


KievContax1 by Vince.Lupo, on Flickr


KievContax2 by Vince.Lupo, on Flickr


KievContax3 by Vince.Lupo, on Flickr


KievContax4 by Vince.Lupo, on Flickr


KievContax5 by Vince.Lupo, on Flickr


KievContax6 by Vince.Lupo, on Flickr


KievContax7 by Vince.Lupo, on Flickr


KievContax8 by Vince.Lupo, on Flickr


KievContax9 by Vince.Lupo, on Flickr


KievContax10 by Vince.Lupo, on Flickr


KievContax11 by Vince.Lupo, on Flickr


KievContax12 by Vince.Lupo, on Flickr


KievContax13 by Vince.Lupo, on Flickr


KievContax14 by Vince.Lupo, on Flickr

Not what I expected at all! The very nicely done 'Contax' (could it be from a real Contax?), no 'country of origin' markings anywhere, a pre-War coated lens, a film reminder on the rewind knob, the PC connection of course, and it seems to work fairly well (I'll try to run a roll through it this weekend to see for sure). A few dings here and there (most noticeably on the bottom), but generally not too bad. The lens has several cleaning marks on the front, but not too hateful.

So any further thoughts on all this weirdness?
 
63 Kiev

63 Kiev

Unfortunately even the name plate is from a Kiev "no name". The Contax is engraved not stamped in like a real Contax and the "t" is wrong. A real Contax "t" is crossed lower. The serial number shows it as a 1963 Kiev serial number as the "no name Contaxes" also use. Someone later thought they could increase the value by forging the Contax name on this one.
 
+1
This looks like a "No name" Kiev 4a with a badly engraved front plate. Lens is prewar (German), coated postwar probably.
 
Does anyone have a closeup photo of what a 'good' Contax engraved front plate looks like? I agree that's it's likely 4a, but it's still pretty interesting nonetheless.

BTW I did check the 't' on a photo of a Contax II in Mckeown's book, and the 't' looks the same to me. Maybe I'm not noticing details that you guys are?
 
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