Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
This is what has me fuming. Any observant M8 owner knows that 99% of the noise doesn't come from the shutter, but the recocking mechanism. That is what needs attention, not some drowsing pseudo-placebo.mas said:
gramsi
gramsi
digitalintrigue said:
they call it 'lebenslang'. This means not forever but life time !!!
Thats enough for me.
old glas, black box, fresh sensor
Chyn
Established
As a relatively new Leica newcomer (who may one day finally afford a digital rangefinder at current prices), I'm not sure what kind of message Leica is sending to its potential future customers with this upgrade program. This upgrade makes little sense--you are getting in return for 1200€ plus a 5-month waiting period:
1) a screen, which is an 'upgrade' that is arguably cosmetic
2) a 'downgrade' with the slower shutter
3) new firmware (which most if not all camera makers offer for free)
4) warranty extension of 2 additional years
With all the praise and problems that I hear about the M8, you'd figure that the company would just offer a warranty extension that comes with a few unannounced fixes. To me, this sounds like an expensive cover for a general voluntary recall...
But maybe I'm too quick to jump to conclusions and this is all a case of bad, unintended press. There might be something else that's being announced during the week that'll be out of this world and counter-balance this disappointment.
1) a screen, which is an 'upgrade' that is arguably cosmetic
2) a 'downgrade' with the slower shutter
3) new firmware (which most if not all camera makers offer for free)
4) warranty extension of 2 additional years
With all the praise and problems that I hear about the M8, you'd figure that the company would just offer a warranty extension that comes with a few unannounced fixes. To me, this sounds like an expensive cover for a general voluntary recall...
But maybe I'm too quick to jump to conclusions and this is all a case of bad, unintended press. There might be something else that's being announced during the week that'll be out of this world and counter-balance this disappointment.
JoeV
Thin Air, Bright Sun
I'm interested in the potential marketing strategy that this 'continuously upgradable' camera technology promises. I am reminded of the so-called 'environmentally conscious' automobile consumers who purchase the Toyota Prius because it promises less environmental impact, emissions-wise; and Toyota's marketing strategy of hyping the Prius as a low-environmental-footprint vehicle.
In truth, not buying a new car at all, but keep the old junker running, is more environmentally conscious, if one considers the 'cradle-to-grave' impact that manufacturing a new automobile from scratch entails. But the Prius owns the environmentally conscious badge of honor in the public's mind.
Back to the M8, Leica has the opportunity here to jump on the environmental bandwagon like no one ever has before in the camera market, if their advertising/marketing people are savvy. The first environmentally conscious camera; the first time that the 'technology treadmill' has been bypassed by a state-of-the-art consumer product. 'The Prius of cameras'; heck, it's better than Prius: Toyota isn't offering continuously upgradable cars, are they now?
In truth, not buying a new car at all, but keep the old junker running, is more environmentally conscious, if one considers the 'cradle-to-grave' impact that manufacturing a new automobile from scratch entails. But the Prius owns the environmentally conscious badge of honor in the public's mind.
Back to the M8, Leica has the opportunity here to jump on the environmental bandwagon like no one ever has before in the camera market, if their advertising/marketing people are savvy. The first environmentally conscious camera; the first time that the 'technology treadmill' has been bypassed by a state-of-the-art consumer product. 'The Prius of cameras'; heck, it's better than Prius: Toyota isn't offering continuously upgradable cars, are they now?
aizan
Veteran
i can't believe they would replace the shutter but not its cocking mechanism. afaik, it's a single unit. hopefully, the press release will clarify this issue.
photogdave
Shops local
JoeV said:
All cars are continuously upgradable. My Vanagon was upgraded from a 48hp diesel to a 95hp 1.8L gas motor. The stock 14" aluminum rims were upgraded to 15" Audi mags!
infocusf8@earthlink.
Established
For All Of You Doubters
For All Of You Doubters
This is the official Leica email I received from Leica regarding the updates so hopefully this will put to bed the hopes and dreams of those who don't own an M8 and for some reason want an M9 replacement. As a current and very happy owner of the M8 I predicted it wouldn't be dumped by Leica just because non owners wanted them to. Long Live The M8!
Dear LEICA M8 customers,
The desire to own a digital camera manufactured by Leica, possessing the identical lifelong value retention associated with every Leica product, was brought to us by many of our customers. Leica Camera AG has now configured the LEICA M8 to meet this demand. With today’s newsletter, we would like to inform you exclusively and in advance of an outstanding innovation regarding your cherished LEICA M8.
Subjects
LEICA M8: An investment in the future
What does the first upgrade kit include?
Firmware update 1.201 available
How do I get the upgrade for my M8?
LEICA M8: An investment in the future
With the introduction of a perpetual upgrade program, every LEICA M8 will forever be a state-of-the-art digital camera. Today’s and tomorrow’s users will always be able to incorporate the latest refinements and developments in handling ease and technology. It is our aim to secure your investment in the LEICA M8 for the future. “While other digital cameras quickly become outdated and are replaced by newer models, our new concept extends the value retention and resistance to obsolescence embodied in the Leica ethos. Over time, we will gradually offer new product features and developments as upgrade options,” declares Steven K. Lee, CEO of Leica Camera AG. “Our customers can therefore still invest in the photographic tools they need without worrying that they will miss out on improvements and technological developments alo ng the way.
This information will be presented during the PMA fair in Las Vegas, beginning January 31st.
What does the first upgrade kit include?
• Scratch-proof sapphire glass cover for the LCD monitor.
• Noise-optimized shutter with a fastest speed of 1/4000s.
• If so desired, the camera will be picked up at your home and sent directly back to you, without any intermediary stage in the process.
• Health-check and complete adjustment of the camera, testing all its functions.
• Installation of the newest relevant firmware.
• New factory warranty of two years covering the same conditions as for a new camera.
Firmware update 1.201 available
In keeping with the overall sustainability of the concept of the rangefinder camera system, Leica Camera AG is now offering all LEICA M8 users an updated version of the camera firmware, which can be downloaded free of charge from Friday, February 1st from our website. Among other things, the new firmware version contains new, substantially improved automatic white balance algorithms for natural color rendering in nearly all light conditions. We will send you special information via e-mail which contains a direct link as soon as we post the firmware update on our website.
How do I get the upgrade for my M8?
• This offer applies exclusively to all registered M8 users.
• We will inform you shortly via e-mail when the website is updated with detailed information about the new M8 upgrade program, and will also inform you as soon as possible how to purchase the first upgrade certificates.
• The fact that you are registered as a M8 owner will give you guaranteed access to an exclusive online area where you will be able to purchase your upgrade certificate.
• Purchasing the upgrade certificates will be possible as of March 2008 - the actual upgrading will commence as of August 2008.
• The upgrades will be fullfiled in the same order as the upgrade certificates were purchased. It is therefore advisable to acquire the certificate as quickly as possible.
We would feel very honored if you would be amongst the first to participate in our new program for the lifelong value retention of your M8.
Yours Sincerely,
The Leica internet team
Now back to my prediction for Photokina- a less expensive D rangefinder ala the CLE and a 20+MP DSLR.
For All Of You Doubters
This is the official Leica email I received from Leica regarding the updates so hopefully this will put to bed the hopes and dreams of those who don't own an M8 and for some reason want an M9 replacement. As a current and very happy owner of the M8 I predicted it wouldn't be dumped by Leica just because non owners wanted them to. Long Live The M8!
Dear LEICA M8 customers,
The desire to own a digital camera manufactured by Leica, possessing the identical lifelong value retention associated with every Leica product, was brought to us by many of our customers. Leica Camera AG has now configured the LEICA M8 to meet this demand. With today’s newsletter, we would like to inform you exclusively and in advance of an outstanding innovation regarding your cherished LEICA M8.
Subjects
LEICA M8: An investment in the future
What does the first upgrade kit include?
Firmware update 1.201 available
How do I get the upgrade for my M8?
LEICA M8: An investment in the future
With the introduction of a perpetual upgrade program, every LEICA M8 will forever be a state-of-the-art digital camera. Today’s and tomorrow’s users will always be able to incorporate the latest refinements and developments in handling ease and technology. It is our aim to secure your investment in the LEICA M8 for the future. “While other digital cameras quickly become outdated and are replaced by newer models, our new concept extends the value retention and resistance to obsolescence embodied in the Leica ethos. Over time, we will gradually offer new product features and developments as upgrade options,” declares Steven K. Lee, CEO of Leica Camera AG. “Our customers can therefore still invest in the photographic tools they need without worrying that they will miss out on improvements and technological developments alo ng the way.
This information will be presented during the PMA fair in Las Vegas, beginning January 31st.
What does the first upgrade kit include?
• Scratch-proof sapphire glass cover for the LCD monitor.
• Noise-optimized shutter with a fastest speed of 1/4000s.
• If so desired, the camera will be picked up at your home and sent directly back to you, without any intermediary stage in the process.
• Health-check and complete adjustment of the camera, testing all its functions.
• Installation of the newest relevant firmware.
• New factory warranty of two years covering the same conditions as for a new camera.
Firmware update 1.201 available
In keeping with the overall sustainability of the concept of the rangefinder camera system, Leica Camera AG is now offering all LEICA M8 users an updated version of the camera firmware, which can be downloaded free of charge from Friday, February 1st from our website. Among other things, the new firmware version contains new, substantially improved automatic white balance algorithms for natural color rendering in nearly all light conditions. We will send you special information via e-mail which contains a direct link as soon as we post the firmware update on our website.
How do I get the upgrade for my M8?
• This offer applies exclusively to all registered M8 users.
• We will inform you shortly via e-mail when the website is updated with detailed information about the new M8 upgrade program, and will also inform you as soon as possible how to purchase the first upgrade certificates.
• The fact that you are registered as a M8 owner will give you guaranteed access to an exclusive online area where you will be able to purchase your upgrade certificate.
• Purchasing the upgrade certificates will be possible as of March 2008 - the actual upgrading will commence as of August 2008.
• The upgrades will be fullfiled in the same order as the upgrade certificates were purchased. It is therefore advisable to acquire the certificate as quickly as possible.
We would feel very honored if you would be amongst the first to participate in our new program for the lifelong value retention of your M8.
Yours Sincerely,
The Leica internet team
Now back to my prediction for Photokina- a less expensive D rangefinder ala the CLE and a 20+MP DSLR.
mas
Member
So, the new order of Leica repair people is now Aizan, DAG, and Sherry.
Hope you're right.
Hope you're right.
dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
I think my original post on this topic still stands.. well.. at least the *yawn* part of it
Any talk around the M8 falls into two camps.
For and Against
Good and Evil
Tastes Great and Less Filling
Really - there are some that believe that whatever Leica does, no matter how absurd or how "against the grain" it's the "best thing ever!!" and those folks will gladly bow down before all that is Leica and worship the red dot like it is Alpha and Omega. There are also many who would think that what Leica has done to the M8 - or what they've tried to do in creating the M8 - puts them in the "Anti-Christ" category. The ultimate blasphemer who smokes a turd in hell for soiling Leica's rep.
To be honest with you all... you can continue to pontificate over and over of the benefits or drawbacks of the camera and Leica's "upgrade path" but in the end.. if you're happy with whatever it is you're shooting.. that's all that matters now right??
Go out and use your cameras already...
Dave
Any talk around the M8 falls into two camps.
For and Against
Good and Evil
Tastes Great and Less Filling
Really - there are some that believe that whatever Leica does, no matter how absurd or how "against the grain" it's the "best thing ever!!" and those folks will gladly bow down before all that is Leica and worship the red dot like it is Alpha and Omega. There are also many who would think that what Leica has done to the M8 - or what they've tried to do in creating the M8 - puts them in the "Anti-Christ" category. The ultimate blasphemer who smokes a turd in hell for soiling Leica's rep.
To be honest with you all... you can continue to pontificate over and over of the benefits or drawbacks of the camera and Leica's "upgrade path" but in the end.. if you're happy with whatever it is you're shooting.. that's all that matters now right??
Go out and use your cameras already...
Dave
aizan
Veteran
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/21331-anatomy-leica-m8.html#post224642
dang, the cocking mechanism is not integral to the shutter unit.
for a while, i was actually thinking of apprenticing under a leica repairman. who knows, maybe i will.
dang, the cocking mechanism is not integral to the shutter unit.
for a while, i was actually thinking of apprenticing under a leica repairman. who knows, maybe i will.
dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
sitemistic said:
You got that right...
I often find myself talking dirty to my Canon and abusing it and it seems to "enjoy it"
My Leicas, well, I take them out to dinner and show them off to my friends who don't have one..
Canons are concubines
Leicas are trophy wives
In the old days (and even for some nowadays) a man had to have both....
Dave
Hacker
黑客
dcsang said:I think my original post on this topic still stands.. well.. at least the *yawn* part of it
Any talk around the M8 falls into two camps.
For and Against
Good and Evil
Tastes Great and Less Filling
Instead of upgrading, just get the M8-2 as another camera
.sirius
Well-known
I'm so happy Leica is doing some original thinking around their business model. It hopefully bodes for a long and prosperous future for them in the digital age...Maybe an M9 will come out when they can fit everything into a smaller body and maybe the MP will come back in 50 years when they can make digital film that loads into old bodies
trev2401
Long Live Film!!!
Hacker said:Instead of upgrading, just get the M8-2 as another camera
yeah right.... use the $$$ on 2 nocts, get a bessa R and at least, be HAPPY.
Tom Diaz
Well-known
Trius said:
Har! Way to yank my chain regarding filters. Right, first my $100 IR/UV filter on my zillion-dollar Leica lens, and then an ND filter on top of it, so I can go on shooting wide open! That's the ticket.
Anyway, I love using the ZI too, but one of these days--soon, I fear--my lovely E6 films will vanish, and then I will be more firmly propeled into relying on digital imaging.
Also, with ISO 100 film, the exposure for some shots in my current project of interest (just normal daylight) might be 1/500 at f/1.4. It's nice to have the M8 able to go all the way up to 1/8000, because I never know when a sunbeam will intrude on the scene and threaten to blow out all the highlights. So those ultrafast shutter speeds are sometimes nice even if you are not shooting speeding race horses.
Tom
etrigan63
Rangefinder Padawan
Leica has always had a polarizing effect on its community of users. However, this move is nothing short of brilliant. Leica can now justify it's cost because now you don't buy a Leica, you invest in Leica. A digital camera built for the long term. Say what you will about Leica, but this is a really good idea.
dof
Fiat Lux
digitalintrigue said:
Regarding the wording of the email sent:
Setting the hyperbole aside, Leica's promotions department seems to have a difficult time taking their English communications seriously. Most of their brochures and every issue of Leica News I've read contain typos, paragraphs that end abruptly, incomplete stories, etc.
It's really rather comical.
summilux
Well-known
the upgrade is not free, or even cheap, thank god leica is not charging you for the firmware upgrade, which is what really counts.
so will the next batch of M8 equipped with the 1/4000s shutter etc? will they be called M8(x)?
I really look forward to the new firmware with "greatly improved auto WB".
so will the next batch of M8 equipped with the 1/4000s shutter etc? will they be called M8(x)?
I really look forward to the new firmware with "greatly improved auto WB".
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
Tom: I totally understand about the shutter speed, and knew that I would get a come-back about adding yet another filter. (Of course, the ZI requires no IR filter, IIRC.)
I know what you mean about E6 being endangered; just think of us K14 lovers! But I must say that colour negative films have come a long way. No, there's nothing like a trans-illuminated chrome, but for printing and web, Portra, Reala etc. are really good.
Edit: Oh, and infocusf8 --- I don't think either of those guys are religiously tied to their Canons. Dave is a die-hard Leica man (film), he just hasn't been able to justify the M8 for his own reasons. Be careful throwing stones at glass houses. It's quite rude.
(Of course, the ZI requires no IR filter, IIRC.)I know what you mean about E6 being endangered; just think of us K14 lovers! But I must say that colour negative films have come a long way. No, there's nothing like a trans-illuminated chrome, but for printing and web, Portra, Reala etc. are really good.
Edit: Oh, and infocusf8 --- I don't think either of those guys are religiously tied to their Canons. Dave is a die-hard Leica man (film), he just hasn't been able to justify the M8 for his own reasons. Be careful throwing stones at glass houses. It's quite rude.
Last edited:
pmfilms@mac.com
PMFilms
M8 and a half!
M8 and a half!
Well for my first posting on this forum I have to strike a cynical note. The announcement from Solms that they will be making the M8 an "upgradeable" system is very welcome, and about time in the fast changing world of digital. I love the idea that any camera I own can be upgraded in this fashion, In fact my 9 year old Aaton film, ( movie ), camera has just been factory upgraded to the latest and greatest version. So it can be done. But I smell a fish here. Remember when Apple had to send "early adopters" of their iPhone a $100 gift certificate when they suddenly dropped the price of the 'phone? Not the same thing exactly but I think that Leica does have a M9 full frame camera in the wings and is looking to try to calm the howls of protest from all of us 1.33 "early adopters' if/when it comes out. Nikon said for the past years that they were not going to go full frame. Right, welcome the D3...........Changing the shutter, and making it slower in the process, why would Leica do that? Odd isn't it.....? Could it be that a shutter to cover the full 24 x 36 sensor couldn't be made to operate well enough at 1/8000 so it has to be stepped down to 1/4000?
Maybe the M9 full frame is a year off, that's still too close for those of us that have bought a very expensive 1.33 Leica, no matter how good it is. I bet that most of us would go for a full frame M in a heartbeat if they could afford it. I would.
And the rumoured 1500 Euro price tag to join the upgrade scheme/club, that's $2250 right now and not getting any better. Pretty expensive even if one assumes that there'll be no extra charge for the 24x36 if it is in fact a possibility.
Anyone else seeing "windmills" here?
Great forum by the way..............Glad I joined in at last.[/FONT]
M8 and a half!
Well for my first posting on this forum I have to strike a cynical note. The announcement from Solms that they will be making the M8 an "upgradeable" system is very welcome, and about time in the fast changing world of digital. I love the idea that any camera I own can be upgraded in this fashion, In fact my 9 year old Aaton film, ( movie ), camera has just been factory upgraded to the latest and greatest version. So it can be done. But I smell a fish here. Remember when Apple had to send "early adopters" of their iPhone a $100 gift certificate when they suddenly dropped the price of the 'phone? Not the same thing exactly but I think that Leica does have a M9 full frame camera in the wings and is looking to try to calm the howls of protest from all of us 1.33 "early adopters' if/when it comes out. Nikon said for the past years that they were not going to go full frame. Right, welcome the D3...........Changing the shutter, and making it slower in the process, why would Leica do that? Odd isn't it.....? Could it be that a shutter to cover the full 24 x 36 sensor couldn't be made to operate well enough at 1/8000 so it has to be stepped down to 1/4000?
Maybe the M9 full frame is a year off, that's still too close for those of us that have bought a very expensive 1.33 Leica, no matter how good it is. I bet that most of us would go for a full frame M in a heartbeat if they could afford it. I would.
And the rumoured 1500 Euro price tag to join the upgrade scheme/club, that's $2250 right now and not getting any better. Pretty expensive even if one assumes that there'll be no extra charge for the 24x36 if it is in fact a possibility.
Anyone else seeing "windmills" here?
Great forum by the way..............Glad I joined in at last.[/FONT]