Noctilux on film ? Focus shift as well ?

proenca

Proenca
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Hi there,

I've heard about the horror stories of the Noctiluxes and focus shift on a M8, what about on film ?

Its almost impossible to use a Noctilux on a M8 without sending both to Leica to get the focus adjusted.

Never hear much about film issues... with the Nocti that is.

True ? Noctilux users stand up ! Film Nocti that is !
 
The Noctilux on film has significant focus shift, something on the order of at least 120 microns when stopped down to f/5.6 as documented by Ernest Puts and based my own personal testing with film. I can't say how much is there for digital as it wasn't available at the time of his test report. However, the lens is normally callibrated such that focus shift is zero at f/1 and gradually increases until f/5.6. Fortunately, dof and curvature of field mitigates it's effect so that it's effect only appears dead center, slightly off center and beyond it's not really noticable. According to Puts, this focus shift issue has been solved with the new 50/0.95 version.
 
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The Noctilux focus shift is completely medium independent.

DOF center for a given f-stop might be different for M8 or film, however. And, of course, DOF on a cropped sensor is thinner than on full format.

Roland.
 
I found it difficult focus on the M8 and have no problems on an MP, M2, or M3. I'm not going to get it adjusted for the M8 because I'm shooting mostly film these days and enjoying it more.
 
I had one and tested another. On my M6, both focussed perfectly at f1 which impressed me. There was noticeable focus shift as I stopped down. I wanted f1, but would have preferred to use it in the range f1 to around f4, but the focus shift was more than the increase in depth of field.

Below I've pasted in some text of a response I made on photo.net a few years ago in response to a person called Jack who said the effect could be ignored:



Jack, with respect, I'd like to challenge your statement about the Noctilux focus shift, where you say "We are talking microns of focus shift, which translate to a few milimeters of plane-of-focus shift in the 3d image."
Erwin gives figures for the focus shift of 74micron at f2 and 120micron at f5.6, but seems uncharacteristically vague when he describes the effect of this degree of focus shift. After all, a micron seems pretty small! (One thousandth of a millimeter).

My experience is that it really makes a difference at around f2 to f5.6. My use of the Noctilux was to use it in the range f1 to f2.8. The ability to get more than f1.4 in available darkness situations was a real luxury. It is a tribute to Leica that the M6 focusses the Noctilux practically perfectly at f1. But where possible, I'd like to use a smaller aperture than f1 if I could: that was my problem.


At the following focussed distances the actual distance focussed, using Erwin's figures above, are as follows:

At f2:
2 metre: 2.12, discrepancy = 12cm = 4.7inch
3 metre: 3.28, discrepancy = 28cm = 11inch
4 metre: 4.52, discrepancy = 52cm = 20inch
8 metre: 10.45, discrepancy = 2.45metre = 8feet

This was calculated using the formula we know and love, the lens equation:
1/u + 1/v = 1/f
It seems amazing doesn't it, but when you think about it, a lens doesn't move much when you change focussed distance from 3metre to 3.28metre, does it! Now although these figures seem amazing, you can verify them by photographing a 3-dimensional target with your Noctilux. Photograph a scale with it and measure it.

Now, we need some depth of field for the following reasons:
1. Our subjects are 3-dimensional
2. Our cameras are not always perfect
3. Even the photographer is not perfect at judging the exact focus.
4. Our subjects are not immobile.

If you view the above focus shifts to be accomodated satisfactorily by depth of field, you are:
1. Accepting a circle of confusion of over 35 micron, which was recommended in the 1930s when films and lenses were very inferior to today. (I know this opens up room for lots of debate, but we didn't buy Leica gear to get that level of fuzziness)
2. Even if that level of fuzziness is ok with you, you have zero margin of error on the near side of the focussed distance. (And heaps on the other side) This was unsatisfactory for me.



 
The Noctilux is not the only lens with a focus shift problem.

In any case, the focus shift on film is the exactly same as that on the M8's digital sensor. However, it is less apparent on film because it is not perfectly flat on the film plane.

I had a long conversation with Don Goldberg ("DAG") on this subject about a year ago - he agrees.

FWIW - these lenses can be adjusted to minimize this.
 
Up to recently, I owned a Konica M-Hexanon 50/1.2. Focus shift was blessedly minimal throughout the aperture range. In addition, corner falloff was quite low compare to the 50/1 Noctilux, something more important with film compared to a cropped digital format. Both these optical characteristics made the lens a much better performer and at least to me, worth the 1/2 stop loss in speed, 250 grams less weight, not to mention the $2200 savings.
 
Film, opposed to a sensor having a 100% flat surface, has a certain latitude of the photosensitive "elements" (grain), masking the effect of focus-shift to a certain degree. Additionally, as already mentioned, film is always slightly bend in the camera.

I have noticed focus-shift using the Noctilux with film in practice but mostly at close focus distances, e.g. portraits at ~ f/4.0 and ~ 1.2 to 1.5m. At larger distances and more stopped down (f/5.6 to f/8) I couldn't see any focus-shift related softness.
 
I've used my v.1 Noctilux on an M7 and an MP and haven't noticed any focus shift. It is certainly accurate at f1 and closest focus. I had DAG match the lens with the camera.
 
I've noticed, while testing 50mm lenses on the M8, that the second version of the Summilux also showed focus-shift. At about 120 cm @ f/1.4 the point on wich I focused was sharp, but @ f/3.5 it was clearly out of focus.
I've been using the lens for almost 30 years on film, but I never noticed this effect.

See my test of 50mm lenses on the M8 in another thread.

Erik.
 
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