Noctilux or Summilux

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washy21

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Hi

I have been on the verge of buying a Canon 0.95 50mm for a week or so, It's to go on my M8. I've had some great help on another RF Forum. Somehow though, I could not bring myself to pay the rising prices being asked for this lens and my logic was to look at a Summilux or even save up for a Noctilux.

I'm now in a position whereby I can buy either (well it would have to be a used Nocti) and I would like some opinions. Here are my thoughts.

The Noctilux appeals to me purely because of the ability to produce f1 shots that are perhaps unique. I like low light photography and I like abstract images/. What I don't like about the Noctilux though is its closest focus distance of 1m.

The Summilux I expect to behave like my Summicron which I think is stunning. But I question the Summilux because it might not prove to be much better than the Summicron other than the increase in speed.

The weight of the Noctilux is of no concern to me. I .

would just like to here some thoughts. Oh, and does anyone know of any UK dealers that might have a used Nocti available. There is one on ebay at the moment but the seller has 0 feedback and that concerns me.
 
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Hi John,
I have seen some of your work
And I think that what you need is more the noctilux or the 0,95
The summilux is a great lens but it will not give you the same visual effect than the noctilux or the 0,95 full open
and you already have the summicron .
It's just my personnal opinion
I have a Noctilux and a 0,95 and I really love these two lenses
Claude
 
Hi Parker

Thanks - It's a real headache isn't it - especially seeing as these lenses are expensive and you don't want to get it wrong.

How do you find the 1m focus. Does this render some subjects too small in the frame. I'm specifically thinking about shots of flowers etc
 
As well as being big and heavy (relative to most other M lenses) also bear in mind that the Noctilux has a long focussing throw. You have to move the barrel a lot to focus, this can make focussing a slower matter than with a Summicron, but of course makes focussing more precise.

The 1 metre limit has never been an issue for me. To be honest at 1 metre and f1 DOF is wafer thin and any closer focussing would make focussing wide open close to impossible.

You'd be able to get a Summilux for a lot less money than a Nocti. There's a UK dealer with a pre-ASPH Summilux currently for sale for £499.
 
washy21 said:
The Noctilux appeals to me purely because of the ability to produce f1 shots that are perhaps unique. I like low light photography and I like abstract images/. What I don't like about the Noctilux though is its closest focus distance of 1m.
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In most cases, the Summilux is the better choice BUT the above statement in your OP alone makes me think that the Noctilux is the better choice for YOU.

.. Yes.. it is heavy.. and slow focusing...

Unfortunately for you, prices for the Noctilux just went up. Not to mention it is a relatively difficult lens to find.
 
Hmmm. Intensely personal choice. And you can buy a lot of tripod for the cost of either lens. I guess I would ask myself how often I find myself in the 1/15sec. /f1.4 range when I could really use an extra handheld stop. The tricky thing about these lenses is that they tend to be used in really extreme conditions. Also the oof areas on a Noctilux are not for everyone. The current Summilux is a blow-your-socks-off sort of optic - some folks say "clinical" -- I just say sharp. The Noctilux is more impressionistic, gives a dreamier look to things because of its insanely shallow depth of field when wide open.

Very different beasts. Good luck in your choice.

Ben Marks
 
not to make your decision any harder, but have you also considered the 75/1.4? if you are looking for subject isolation, the 75, i believe is just as, or even more so, amazing as the nocti, and it helps with the close focusing because of the longer focal length. and the 75 is much sharper than the nocti, if sharpness is also something you are looking for.

;)

you can probably buy a used 50 and 75 lux together for the price of a new nocti too...
 
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I was looking at an old thread here about the 50 Summilux ASPH yesterday and I came across this wonderful comment: "pictures taken at f1.4 by the asph lux are dreamy and creamy, without the nauseating whirl of Noctilux". I happen to love that whirl, and I think you do too.
 
Are you referring to the pre-asph. or ASPH Summilux? I use to own the 50/1 and later sold it and my Summicron to furnish the funds for an ASPH. Summilux because of the weight issue and minimum focus of 1 m. Optically the ASPH is better than the Summicron (except for flat field work close up where the Summicron is still the best) and can be incredibly sharp wide open. Light fall off at f/1 is significant on film but for digital photography will be less of a concern due to the crop factor. However, focus shift normally a little high with the Noctilux may be problematic because of the crop factor's focal length increase.
 
Of the discussed lenses, the Leica 50mm f/1.0 and 75mm f/1.4 elicit the greatest response from my breast. I have had in my possession for some time an M8 loaned to me by a most maganimous friend (whom you all know but shall remain nameless). With this camera I have tried many lenses, and I found that the Noctilux provides a wholly unique perspective-- 65mm f/1.0. The longer effective reach of the Noctilux mitigated much of my concerns about its minimum focus distance. 65mm at 1m is as liberating as 50mm at 1m is confining. The 75mm f/1.4 then in turn becomes a 100mm f/1.4, yet another unheard-of combination. The strength of this lens resides in its propensity to produce color in ways not seen since the late-19th century French painters. Its bouquet of bokeh would bring a tear to my eye had my tear ducts not been cauterized during a childhood accident.

Sadly, these two lenses have become quite scarce since the advent of the digital M. I did, however, spy both of these at The Photo Village during one of my desultory circumambulations from camera dealer to camera dealer. Examining each of these marvels made me feel lachrymose, as I doubt I'll ever own either of them. (And to think, the 75m f/1.4 was 6-bit coded!) I spent my camera budget on another Leica lens this year, so these pretty things will have to wait until later.... at least for me.
 
The strength of this lens resides in its propensity to produce color in ways not seen since the late-19th century French painters. Its bouquet of bokeh would bring a tear to my eye
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I know this feeling well. That's how the summarit 5cm makes me feel.
 
Thanks for the replies. It's the totall uniquness of the Nocti that is of course making me feel as though it is the right choice. I'm really into artistic abstract photography and a lot of my pictures are taken under condition where I have time to focus, but I do understand the concerns about the long focus throw.

Anyway, I might ring around a few places today and see if any are available, but I doubt it.
 
If you want to take technically good pictures, then choose Summilux. If you want to own an unique lense then buy a Nochtilux. I have a Nochtilux which is a handfull on any camera due to the very narrow DOF. It even backfocuses about 10 cm at 2 meters distance on my M8. At full aparture the pictures are flat and dull and without contrast.

For the M8 I would not buy a 50 mm at all. I would rather had bought a 35 mm and use it as a 'normal' lense. Or something even wider.
 
Olsen said:
At full aparture the pictures are flat and dull and without contrast.
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I beg to differ...

1314498737_fd2af53e3f_o.jpg


And there are a ton of Noctilux pictures on flickr that are incredible...much better than mine...most of which are shot at f1.0 which are very much not "flat, dull and without contrast." The point of owning a Noct is so you can shoot it at f1.0.


John,

If it is any consolation, the prices for these super fast lenses aren't going anywhere but up. The catch is that you will probably never want to sell them at any price increase ;)
 
newyorkone said:
I beg to differ...

1314498737_fd2af53e3f_o.jpg


And there are a ton of Noctilux pictures on flickr that are incredible...much better than mine...most of which are shot at f1.0 which are very much not "flat, dull and without contrast." The point of owning a Noct is so you can shoot it at f1.0.


John,

If it is any consolation, the prices for these super fast lenses aren't going anywhere but up. The catch is that you will probably never want to sell them at any price increase ;)
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No. I don't have dud, - with exception of the back focusing issue. The picture above confirms what I am saying. Even though it is not even sharp. I also have the Canon alternative (no longer in production) which is far better and was 30% cheaper than Leica's. There can be little doubt about that the Summilux is a far better lense. Particularly on the M8.
 
washy21 said:
The Summilux I expect to behave like my Summicron which I think is stunning. But I question the Summilux because it might not prove to be much better than the Summicron other than the increase in speed.
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Yes, but that's the minor miracle of the 50 lux ASPH. It's a 1.4 design that performs as good and better close up, than what may be the best 50 on the market. You really can't ask for much more. In the past you traded speed for quality.



washy21 said:
The weight of the Noctilux is of no concern to me. I .
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I used to own a Noct or 'The Queen of the Night' as I like to call her and size and weight was one of the reasons why I sold it and bought a Summilux.

Noct pro:

- f1. If you can see it, you can shoot it.
- Super shallow DOF close-up. You get 1cm of DOF at 1 meter. You'll gain a little DOF with the M8.
- The most flare proof lens I have ever seen. It just doesn't flare. Period.
- Amazing ability to see in to the shadows and preserve the most delicate tonal transitions.
- The best performing f1 design out there. Extremely sharp once it's stopped down a little.

Noct cons:

- Vignettes cosiderably at f1 (as do all lenses of this speed). But you don't notice it when it's that dark.
- Super shallow DOF closeup. You get 1cm of DOF at 1 meter. Forget about focusing on anything that's moving.
- Focus shift wide open. Again, you're working against the laws of physics.
- The lens is so flare proof that it tends to render images that look a little 'sterile', because they lack blooming.
- Bokeh can range from gorgeous to distracting and downright ugly.
- Focus throw is very long.
- Large and heavy by Leica M standards.

It's a great lens, but not something I cared to carry around every day. It felt like I had a 90 mounted. I also had a love / hate relationship with it's almost total lack of flare. It was genius at night, but in the daytime I missed a little glow in my pictures.
 
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