nokton 50/1.1 VS summarit 50/2.5

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krystek

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ok, this is not accurate test, I've made it in 10min. pictures from M9, developed from DNG in Lightroom with no corrections. I repeat: NO corrections.
first shoot: downsized nokton @1.1
n11m.jpg


2nd one: nokton, gimme the best shot: @5.6
n56.jpg


3rd: summarit 50/2.5 - the cheapest lens in leicas line, wide open @2.5:
s25.jpg






come closer.. 100% crops, by CS, no sharpening, max quality.

1st: nokton @1.1
n11j.jpg


2nd: nokton @5.6
n56.jpg


3rd. summarit @2.5
s25c.jpg




conclusion: damn, nokton is the most expensive body cap I've ever have. I thought that after stopping it down a little bit help - no, not really

price matters, sad thruth
 
Mmm...

Why buy a f/1.1 lens to shoot walls and view at 100% on the monitor? Do the prints look ok? Does it open up to f/1.1?
 
kully said:
Mmm...

Why buy a f/1.1 lens to shoot walls and view at 100% on the monitor? Do the prints look ok? Does it open up to f/1.1?
Click to expand...

Fair enough, but it is not unreasonable to expect a fast lens to be decent a few stops down and not be completely hammered by a basic summarit. The shots shown may not be the whole picture of course, but with QC issues I suspect that some nokton 1.1s are far better/worse than others.
 
kully
i know, i dont shoot walls more than once a year, but for me after that one case is clear: i can't use this lens doing a commercial project, and i have to forget about any exibiton - this makes this lens unusable for me
 
Hello Krystek, just read my post and it reads more constipated than I intended ;-)

Are you shooting this on a M8? I encountered back focus issues on a 28/1.9 and 40/1.4 even at f/5.6 (for the 40mm, especially at f/5.6). Try shooting a series, one with the focus patch aligned, another with it going right by 1/4 of the patch, then 1/2, then 3/4 and then again going to the left.

The two CV lenses had enough focus shift to show up in a 12x8 enlargement, I also have a f/2.8 optimised C-Sonnar which looks OOF at 100% on the screen, but is fine when viewing the prints.

Of course, I am just a happy snapper vs. you doing this stuff for money.
 
It might be a better idea to try with something like an object from 3 or so meters away. Something like a bottle on a fence post, with a garden in the background.
 
krystek said:
for me after that one case is clear: i can't use this lens doing a commercial project, and i have to forget about any exibiton - this makes this lens unusable for me
Click to expand...

Sometimes I think the ability to put 1:1 crops of the corners of images on the Web has been quite bad for photographers' self-conscience. As I wrote elsewhere, I can't help but think of exhibition visitors standing in front of a picture with a loupe, looking at the corners, turning up their noses and walking out.

I don't know what kind of commercial projects you're working on, maybe they are of the unlikely kind that do depend on the corners. But that is usually not the point, nor the design goal of an f/1.1 extreme low-light lens, no matter what the cost. I've seen pictures in exhibition that were less than perfect technically, but still were great. Shouldn't a picture in an exhibition have something else to stand on than corner sharpness?

That said, from a technical point of view you've probably just discovered curvature of field. The plane of focus isn't flat, so when you focus on the center of the wall, the corners are slightly out of focus. Most high-speed lenses have that - the Noctilux has it, too. If you need a flat field, get a slower lens. It's quite probable that the Summarit f/2.5 is simply better here, because its overall design isn't as constrained. If your project depends on a flat plane of focus at f/1.1, there is no lens in the world that will do the job for you.
 
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rxmd
yeap, noone's looking with loupe at the exibiton, but when abberation is visible standing 50cm away from 30x40 print - this is a serious problem.

i'm not looking for absolute sharpness, or 0 distortion lens. from this i have large format, but come on: i get better results on my pentax k1000 with 50/1.7 that i bought for a 6pack of beer. this is just too much
 
Digital will eventually spoil the RF crowd. I'm used to this kind of posts from DSLR forums and I rarely saw them here until recently.

Regarding the finding of the OP, I think this is an unfair comparisson. Like apples and oranges. One of the lenses is basic standard speed standard lens, the other is a special purpose low light lens and should be taken as such. Try to compare the Summarit with 50/2.5 Color Skopar and the Nokton 1.1 with Noctilux 1.0.

Plus what Philipp said - is sharpness all that's important ?
 
krystek said:
when abberation is visible standing 50cm away from 30x40 print - this is a serious problem.
Click to expand...

As I said, I don't know what you're exhibiting, but in the kind of settings I'm used to where people use rangefinders and extreme high-speed lenses, nobody looks at aberrations. People won't even notice them. Usually you have dark scenes, people shots under dim lighting, few straight lines in the picture, very pronounced subjects in sharp focus against blurred backdrops, and nothing of interest in the corners. That's what the lens is made for, not brick walls.

come on: i get better results on my pentax k1000 with 50/1.7 that i bought for a 6pack of beer. this is just too much
Click to expand...

Not at f/1.1, which is kind of the point.

There are exactly three reasons to choose an f/1.1 lens over a f/1.7 lens, and they are f/1.1, f/1.2 and f1.4. If f/1.7 does the job, use a f/1.7 lens, as I'm sure you know as well as I do it will be better in some aspects.
 
Nokton has a notorious focus shift, so the best focus plane is well behind what you see as aligned focus in the VF. As mentioned above, you should bracket the focus to chose the best one. Anyway, this is one of the reasons why in my opinion the Nokton is best used as a low light lens, for me this focus issue makes it inappropriate as an all purpose lens.
 
as said earlier, could well be back/front focus issues... Did not think of that in my haste. Still, can't sniff at slow lenses if you don't need the speed. The CV 35 Skopar/PII shows how good a cheap slow lens can be even up against the most pricey competition
 
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