Nokton 50/1.5 v2 and Zeiss C-Sonnar

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Tim Gray

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Maybe this is already written down somewhere but has anyone (Brian?) compared the new Nokton to the C-Sonnar? I’d be interested to hear about performance in addition to design... the new Nokton looks a lot like the Sonnar...
 
I'm thoroughly impressed by the new Nokton, size-wise- about the same as a classic Sonnar. Butter smooth Bokeh.

First tests were against the Asph Nokton in LTM.
Next set of tests, I will include the C-Sonnar.

Nokton-M V2, C-Sonnar by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

Just for a size comparison.
 
Looking forward to this, Brian. Thank you in advance! The VM Nokton II has a lot going for it with it's size and 0.7m MFD but from some images I've seen in the FM review thread, it seems like the bokeh can get a bit swirly. So I am torn between this and the C-Sonnar 🙂
 
The Nokton has some astigmatism- causes the swirlies. This is the price paid for flatness of field. The Sonnar has more field curvature and Coma.

This is an extreme test for swirlies- close- but not minimum focus, wide open, lots of structure in the background:



No as much as a Summicron, Summarit, or Summitar.

Same shot, at F4-

 
Uploaded some pictures with the C-Sonnar,

Wide-Open, shows the Bokeh.



Compared with my other Nokton- the 50mm F1.1 at F1.5.



Next warm day- will try to repeat this visit to Gunston Hall with the 50/1.5 Nokton V2 and the C-Sonnar.
 
Got out today- walked around taking some pictures of Christmas Decorations in Old Town Manassas and Occoquan. Brought the Nokton V2 and C-Sonnar. Both are compact lenses, both fast-Fifties.

The Nokton is smaller, close-focus to 0.7m, and has negligible focus shift. A marvel of modern materials and design.

The C-Sonnar is the sharpest 50mm Sonnar formula lens made. It has the personality and quirks particular to the Sonnar design, field curvature and focus shift. Focus shift with a rangefinder: when using at F4, focus with the RF and then nudge the focus closer.

C-Sonnar at F1.5, min focus of 0.9m



Nokton V2 at F1.5, 0.9m




C-Sonnar at F1.5- :



Nokton V2 at F1.5:



It was very windy for the above test.
 
More C-Sonnar here:
https://ibb.co/album/4WPpKq

And Nokton V2 Here:
https://ibb.co/album/3mjN4y

Full res JPEGS uploaded, straight exports from LR6.

I'm keeping both lenses, should not be a surprise to anyone. I've had the C-Sonnar for over 10 years now, no wobble, no play in the focus. It cost a little bit more than the Nokton V2. The Nokton- a small, solid lens. Focus is smooth and well dampened. The aperture clicks solidly in place. I prefer the 1/2 F-Stop clicks of the Nokton over the 1/3rd stops of the C-Sonnar. Easy to move between F1.5 and F4 without looking on either lens using the "Wings".
 
Thanks for the comparison. The Nokton V2 looks like a GREAT lens, but the Sonnar has a bit more character. I'd love to pick up the Nokton, but I can't really justify it. Between the Sonnar and the Summilux ASPH, I feel I'm pretty well covered. Besides, *if* I get another 50, it might have to be the new Voigtlander APO... 🙂

Though it does appear to me that the Nokton V2 might be the best bang for the buck 50 out there.
 
Sonnar Brian said:
More C-Sonnar here:
https://ibb.co/album/4WPpKq

And Nokton V2 Here:
https://ibb.co/album/3mjN4y

Full res JPEGS uploaded, straight exports from LR6.

I'm keeping both lenses, should not be a surprise to anyone. I've had the C-Sonnar for over 10 years now, no wobble, no play in the focus. It cost a little bit more than the Nokton V2. The Nokton- a small, solid lens. Focus is smooth and well dampened. The aperture clicks solidly in place. I prefer the 1/2 F-Stop clicks of the Nokton over the 1/3rd stops of the C-Sonnar. Easy to move between F1.5 and F4 without looking on either lens using the "Wings".
Click to expand...

Hi Brian

I'm in the market for a fast 50 of small to moderate size. I currently own the 50 ZM Planar and I'm looking for something faster for portraits and and low light. I'm currently choosing between the C-Sonnar and the VM V2 Nokton ASPH.

I've seen both, they are compact especially the VM. But seeing the early photos of the new Nokton I'm seeing a bit of swirly bokeh especially with foliage in the background which I don't particularly want in this 50. Is this your experience too?

I am after pleasing (not ultrasharp, high contrast) people shots w a non-distracting bokeh to pair with the Planar.

Hope you can share your inputs. Thanks!
 
Looks like a very just comparison. If I didn't have the C Sonnar and I was logical, I'd get the Nokton. But I have the Sonnar, and couldn't ever do without it, and don't now need the Nokton. Not that need has much to do with anything here. And certainly logic is not the whole answer either.
 
taffy said:
Hi Brian

I'm in the market for a fast 50 of small to moderate size. I currently own the 50 ZM Planar and I'm looking for something faster for portraits and and low light. I'm currently choosing between the C-Sonnar and the VM V2 Nokton ASPH.

I've seen both, they are compact especially the VM. But seeing the early photos of the new Nokton I'm seeing a bit of swirly bokeh especially with foliage in the background which I don't particularly want in this 50. Is this your experience too?

I am after pleasing (not ultrasharp, high contrast) people shots w a non-distracting bokeh to pair with the Planar.

Hope you can share your inputs. Thanks!
Click to expand...

The Swirly Bokeh is astigmatism. Several books on optics state that introducing curvature of field reduces astigmatism. The C-Sonnar has good flatness of field "For a Sonnar", not nearly as good for a Planar. SO- no swirly background. Coma and field curvature for a portrait, not a problem. The C-Sonnar has a 0.9m close focus. Not going to give a tight portrait. Focus shift for the C-Sonnar is an issue- about 3cm at minimum focus from F1.5 to F4. With an RF- you need to learn to compensate, or get sharp portraits of ears.

The C-Sonnar is the sharpest Sonnar formula lens I own, and I own a lot of them. I also have a pair of Jupiter-3+ lenses. On Ebay- some new ones out of Russia run ~$450. This lens is softer than the C-Sonnar, especially in the outer 2/3rds of the image. It has a 0.7m focus. Modern multi-coated optics and all brass construction.

Jupiter-3+, wide-open, on the M8. Close to 0.7m focus.

Secret Garden, Occoquan by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

On the M8- cuts out the corners. I'll post some on the M9 and M Monochrom.
 
Sonnar Brian said:
The Swirly Bokeh is astigmatism. Several books on optics state that introducing curvature of field reduces astigmatism. The C-Sonnar has good flatness of field "For a Sonnar", not nearly as good for a Planar. SO- no swirly background. Coma and field curvature for a portrait, not a problem. The C-Sonnar has a 0.9m close focus. Not going to give a tight portrait. Focus shift for the C-Sonnar is an issue- about 3cm at minimum focus from F1.5 to F4. With an RF- you need to learn to compensate, or get sharp portraits of ears.

The C-Sonnar is the sharpest Sonnar formula lens I own, and I own a lot of them. I also have a pair of Jupiter-3+ lenses. On Ebay- some new ones out of Russia run ~$450. This lens is softer than the C-Sonnar, especially in the outer 2/3rds of the image. It has a 0.7m focus. Modern multi-coated optics and all brass construction.

Jupiter-3+, wide-open, on the M8. Close to 0.7m focus.

Secret Garden, Occoquan by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

On the M8- cuts out the corners. I'll post some on the M9 and M Monochrom.
Click to expand...


Thanks, Brian.

There are two for sale where I am now for about $700 in mint condition. I tried both out and both seem in focus at f/2 at 0.9m slightly off at f/1.5 and a bit more at f/2.8. Contrast gets better at f/2 from wide open.

The out of focus areas look really creamy but the sharpness is indeed less than the ZM Planar but not in a bad way. I guess this speaks more to how sharp the Planar is.

Shooting the C-Sonnar did not feel as limiting as I thought at 0.9m. I bet this would make a good pair with the Leica M8.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
taffy said:
I am after pleasing (not ultrasharp, high contrast) people shots w a non-distracting bokeh to pair with the Planar.
Click to expand...

The first M mount version of the Nokton 50mm Asph is a lovely lens for portraits. It's sharp from wide open, with good color, skin tones and textures. Shot here in all natural, backlit conditions and showing nice resistance to flare.

Bokeh can be such a personal thing, but I almost always like what this lens produces.

_DSC0878 by Brusby, on Flickr
 
taffy said:
Thanks, Brian.

There are two for sale where I am now for about $700 in mint condition. I tried both out and both seem in focus at f/2 at 0.9m slightly off at f/1.5 and a bit more at f/2.8. Contrast gets better at f/2 from wide open.

The out of focus areas look really creamy but the sharpness is indeed less than the ZM Planar but not in a bad way. I guess this speaks more to how sharp the Planar is.

Shooting the C-Sonnar did not feel as limiting as I thought at 0.9m. I bet this would make a good pair with the Leica M8.
Click to expand...

http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0807/nuts-bolts.html

I have two: both were perfect at F1.5 on my M9. I've used the M9 to adjust lenses for a lot of other Leica cameras. If the lens is off when received, I would tell the person they have to send me the camera and the lens to set properly.

Rangefinder cameras have tolerances, and assumptions are made for how film and the sensor sits in the camera. Focus that is perfect on my M9 is slightly off on the M Monochrom and the M8. Different assumptions for use: I have used my M Monochrom to adjust lenses for several M Monochrom users, all perfect when received. Same with the M8- it agrees with the M Monochrom. It will drive you nuts. BUT: I learned not to use my M Monochrom to set the shim for a lens that was going to be used on an M9, M240, or M246. And I learned not to use the M9 to set the shim for a lens that was going to be used on an M Monochrom.

Bill Pierce wrote the linked article on having Rangefinder cameras and lenses "Zeroed" by the local technicians. These days- no local tech.

From his article: "A Leica lens has a rangefinder cam that positions a feeler arm in the camera body. When these are properly matched, focusing with high-speed lenses wide open is dead on accurate. Remember, everything has tolerances. It's possible to get a mismatch that won't affect most images but will be less than optimal when you're shooting up close with a very high-speed lens wide open. If you suspect your rangefinder focusing is not spot on, I absolutely suggest you send body and lenses to a really good technician to have them matched up."

We are lucky to have Bill Pierce and Jason Schneider here at RFF.

On the pincushion distortion: I agree- there is more distortion in the Nokton. With my glasses, all I have to do is tilt my head a few degrees when looking at an image and the distortion goes away. The C-Sonnar has much more focus shift due to spherical aberration.
 
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