Non-Bayer Chip from Sony in 2015?

There will always be something different on the horizon. Whether or not it is actually an improvement is yet to be determined.
 
I'm always excited to see alternative sensor designs. However, I think the mixed results that people have seen from the X-Trans color array should serve as a warning. There's a persistent belief (that I don't have the knowledge to evaluate) that the X-Trans array of color filters has problems. However, a lot of that belief comes from poor support from non-fuji RAW processors. Sony is not well known for working with 3rd parties, but if they want a non-bayer camera to be a success, they will absolutely need to. Will be interesting to see.
 
aeturnum said:
I'm always excited to see alternative sensor designs. However, I think the mixed results that people have seen from the X-Trans color array should serve as a warning. There's a persistent belief (that I don't have the knowledge to evaluate) that the X-Trans array of color filters has problems. However, a lot of that belief comes from poor support from non-fuji RAW processors. Sony is not well known for working with 3rd parties, but if they want a non-bayer camera to be a success, they will absolutely need to. Will be interesting to see.
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Another reason is people don't take the time to learn how select the rendering parameters for XTrans images. The cameras do not have an AA filter and the demosiacing algorithm is different. Using parameters one uses for Bayer images is often not appropriate. Adjusting one's workflow for optimizing Xtrans rendering is not difficult.
 
aeturnum said:
I'm always excited to see alternative sensor designs. However, I think the mixed results that people have seen from the X-Trans color array should serve as a warning. There's a persistent belief (that I don't have the knowledge to evaluate) that the X-Trans array of color filters has problems. However, a lot of that belief comes from poor support from non-fuji RAW processors. Sony is not well known for working with 3rd parties, but if they want a non-bayer camera to be a success, they will absolutely need to. Will be interesting to see.
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Huh?? I've been getting superb color from my X-Pro1 and Aperture for over a year now. I'm not sure where you're getting your information, but I can't believe its from anyone that actually uses one of the X-Trans sensor bodies.
 
Jamie Pillers said:
Huh?? I've been getting superb color from my X-Pro1 and Aperture for over a year now. I'm not sure where you're getting your information, but I can't believe its from anyone that actually uses one of the X-Trans sensor bodies.
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For over a year?!

Didn't Apple add X-Trans support only half a year ago (April/May 2013)?
 
The patent for foveon should be expiring soon. I wonder if this is going to be a foveon like sensor.

In terms of xtran... It is a photo sw issue.. Adobe is just not as good as capture one or iridient or even aperture in terms of getting the most out of it.

Gary
 
Forgot to mention, adobe has been improving their xtran support from what I have seen from the web blogs.. I use cameras that are Bayer, xtran and foveon based, IMHO nothing beats the image quality of a foveon sensor. Bayer and xtran sensor cameras have their place in my bag because of what I cannot do w/ an foveon based camera.

Gary
 
brbo said:
For over a year?!

Didn't Apple add X-Trans support only half a year ago (April/May 2013)?
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Camera for over a year, Aperture RAW support... not sure. But the jpegs have also been superb. I don't see how anyone can really complain about the colors coming out of the X-Tran sensors + Fuji firmware, whether via RAW or jpeg.

I only have experience processing the X-Pro1 files with Aperture. Is anyone here unhappy with the results they're getting with other software?
 
One of the commentators mentioned quantum film in the attached article. Conceptually I totally dig the idea of quantum film. Whether the technology will be a commercially viable solution to the present solution of cajoling light down a hole is yet to be seen.
Fun stuff none the less, if you're into that sort of thing.
 
Jamie Pillers said:
Camera for over a year, Aperture RAW support... not sure. But the jpegs have also been superb. I don't see how anyone can really complain about the colors coming out of the X-Tran sensors + Fuji firmware, whether via RAW or jpeg.

I only have experience processing the X-Pro1 files with Aperture. Is anyone here unhappy with the results they're getting with other software?
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You probably missed the bitching here and on other forums about Apple being VERY slow to support X-Trans RAW files (and Adobe just a little better).
 
brbo said:
You probably missed the bitching here and on other forums about Apple being VERY slow to support X-Trans RAW files (and Adobe just a little better).
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It's pretty obvious that Fuji's management was very slow to understand how important getting the demosaicing algorithms out to the 3rd party software firms would be. It seems likely that there was a desire not to release the IP even under NDAs, and some in management resisted for a while.
 
Fuji is at fault.

The sad thing is all they had to do was provide out of camera TIFFs based on their proprietary rendering and much of the trouble would have been completely avoided.
 
GaryLH said:
The patent for foveon should be expiring soon. I wonder if this is going to be a foveon like sensor.

In terms of xtran... It is a photo sw issue.. Adobe is just not as good as capture one or iridient or even aperture in terms of getting the most out of it.

Gary
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Oh really? I know I've heard rumors that Nikon has been developing a 3-chip sensor similar to the Foveon sensor. Kind of sad for Sigma. With this in mind, I feel that the Leica M was released a few years too early. This is also, obviously, the future of digital cinema--and I'm afraid it might unfortunately finish motion picture film.

I guess I won't be buying any new pro cameras until Canikony announces something exciting. I'm hoping for a Foveon Canon body, but I'd rather migrate to a full-frame Sigma.
 
I think I may have seen an article about a couple of those patents maybe first half of the year. Right now I just remember the site or which companies published it.

IMHO I would not hold my breath w/ Nikon or Canon, they seem to be going down an extremely conservative road right now.

Right now it is the guys like Fuji/Panasonic alliance, Sony, etc.. That are pushing the envelope in the world of new sensor tech. Sigma bought their foveon technology and has been slowly improving it.

My guess about the foveon patent is really based on when the first foveon sensor was announced and thinking they needed to push the patent thru no later then just before the announcement.

Gary
 
Great old google search -- "foveon patent"

Here is the link to the canon one
http://www.canonrumors.com/2013/05/patent-canon-foveon-sensor/

The Fuji one
http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/fuji-patent-discloses-a-new-three-layer-sensor-foveon-style/

The Panasonic one
http://www.43rumors.com/panasonic-3-layer-patent-like-the-sigma-foveon-sensor/

Others may have a patent that is similar to the one issued for the foveon but the real question is if they will ever c the light of day.

Right now I think Sony maybe the company that would push it given the way they have been aggressively attacking the market w/ new camera bodies (multiple offerings even in the same camera line in te same year)..

IMHO.
Gary
 
You're probably right about how conservative Canon and Nikon have been. Stable, but unexciting. I just have this Canon 85L II that I can't shake. If I could find someone to retrofit a canon mount to the SD1, I'd be in heaven. But I've only seen one guy who does it--and then, not anymore. I've read good things about the Sigma 85 1.4, however.

I will say, I didn't like much of what I got out of my Sony Nex-7 (which is gone). The output was really rather bland, with both Leica glass and Zeiss/Sigma glass. Shooting with it as a second camera body (indoors, not great light), beside my 5D MkII, the disparity was embarrassing and the results weren't very usable, professionally. I am interested to see how the A7's actually perform in hand. A bit wary, and even more so now that they might have a special new sensor up their sleeve in a year or two.
 
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