Non-formal Testing of 85mm~105mm Lenses

[raid]

Roland,
I have seen these bokeh shots before, and they seem to show harsh bokeh.
I believe that the only differences, if at all present, between the different medium tele lenses tested appear at the Bokeh shots.
The lenses are all excellent in overall performance, and each has a faithful following group which supports it.

It is possible that the Nikkors have a creamier bokeh than Canon lenses.
But does this optical difference account for the large difference in market value?
Maybe the collecting factor plays a big role here. Nikkors bring in more money than vintage Canon lenses of the same focal length.

Raid

P.S.
I have sent all four lenses to their respective owners. This is the "official" ending to the tests for me, but discussions are always welcome

 

[ferider]

Hi Raid,

I agree with you. Thanks for doing the tests !

Roland.

 

[VinceC]

>>Maybe the collecting factor plays a big role here. Nikkors bring in more money than vintage Canon lenses of the same focal length.<<

For 1950s gear, there's no strong relationship between quality and price. Canon prices are generally reasonable because a lot of lenses and bodies were made, and they tend to be considered "second tier" compared to Leitz. The Nikon equipment prices can get crazy for mint-ish lenses, especially in the Leica mount. Not a lot of Nikkor lenses were made ... often 10,000 or fewer of each design, and most were not made in Leica mount. Quite a lot of them were used by professional photographers and so didn't survive.

 

[raid]

>>Maybe the collecting factor plays a big role here. Nikkors bring in more money than vintage Canon lenses of the same focal length.<<

For 1950s gear, there's no strong relationship between quality and price. Canon prices are generally reasonable because a lot of lenses and bodies were made, and they tend to be considered "second tier" compared to Leitz. The Nikon equipment prices can get crazy for mint-ish lenses, especially in the Leica mount. Not a lot of Nikkor lenses were made ... often 10,000 or fewer of each design, and most were not made in Leica mount. Quite a lot of them were used by professional photographers and so didn't survive.

... and that is what I called the collecting factor. The fewer lenses were made, the more expensive they become later on.

Raid

 

[VinceC]

>>The fewer lenses were made, the more expensive they become later on.<<

The "collecting factor" isn't just a case of small production numbers. There also has to be a demand that exceeds the supply. Collecting often doesn't make a lot fo sense. Sometimes "demand" becomes so intense that the prices get silly. Think of "beany baby" stuffed toys or Internet stocks in January 2000. A few years ago, Nikon RF bodies seemed to be selling for about twice their current values. More cameras are coming on the market via estate sales, but not as many younger photographers are interested in building a Nikon RF collection.

 

[raid]

You have a point there, Vince.
What I called "collecting factor" confounds two things.

Raid

 

[payasam]

Just wondered, Raid, because in classical mythology ambrosia is the food and drink of the gods; and, going by received wisdom, a dead man would be well placed to make the stuff for them.

 

[ferider]

Nikkors bring in more money than vintage Canon lenses of the same focal length.

I was thinking about that last night again. Kind of surprised that it ends up as a Canon vs Nikkor
debate, while the more epensive Summicron was in the test as well. How did the cron compare
to the Canon. Raid, will you sell the cron ?

I don't think chrome 85 Nikkors are really collectors lenses. I fully agree, that all lenses tested
are very capable shooters. But there is an additional few percent that I like in the Nikkor and
that I would reinvest my money in (I am talking about the chrome one, the
black one is a different story). Plus, when I bought it I was debating
between the Nikkor and the Summicron, having tried the Canon. The Summicron was too expensive
for what I wanted. Raid, what is you conclusion wrt Summicron vs the other lenses, in particular the
Canon 1.8 that you tried more ?

Roland.

 

[VinceC]

That's true. Chrome Nikkor 85s aren't considered too collectible. They're not cheap but are a reasonable value.

 

[raid]

I was thinking about that last night again. Kind of surprised that it ends up as a Canon vs Nikkor
debate, while the more epensive Summicron was in the test as well. How did the cron compare
to the Canon. Raid, will you sell the cron ?

I don't think chrome 85 Nikkors are really collectors lenses. I fully agree, that all lenses tested
are very capable shooters. But there is an additional few percent that I like in the Nikkor and
that I would reinvest my money in (I am talking about the chrome one, the
black one is a different story). Plus, when I bought it I was debating
between the Nikkor and the Summicron, having tried the Canon. The Summicron was too expensive
for what I wanted. Raid, what is you conclusion wrt Summicron vs the other lenses, in particular the
Canon 1.8 that you tried more ?

Roland.

Roland,

The Summicron does not return inferior images. It is a classic design and my example is the version with built-in hood. It is one of the most beautifully designed lenses that I have ever seen. Most likely, it is not sharp corner to corner @ f 2.0, but I see it very special for portraits and creamy results even with landscapes.

The Canon 85mm/1.8 is very sharp and it also has a nice overall quality. It is rarer than my 85mm/1.9 and it commandsa higher price. If I didnot have a 85mm/1.9, I would be tempted to find such a lens. The 1.8 version is shorter and very easy to focus with. The 1/9 version is longer and heavier(it seems) and the focusing takes longer.

The chrome Nikkor 85mm/2.0 is a classic, and I was tempted to buy such a lens. However, I already own several quite capable lenses in that focal length.
I prefer the Summicron overall.


Raid

 

[adep]

Here is the first replicate for the bokeh test.
I hope that you can benefit from the photos.

http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=628757

If you want to see the second replicate, just let me know.
I thought that having all ten images on one page makes comparisons easier for you.


Raid

Did the bokeh test images go away? 😕

 

[raid]

Alan: I may have finally removed those images. I thought that this thread is dead. I will try to upload them again.

Raid

 

[adep]

Raid, no worries if it's a hassle, I was just doing a little research on Canon's 85's and came across this old thread.

 

[raid]

Alan: From my recollection I can state that Canon lenses perform very well when compared to Nikkor or Summicron vintage lenses, but some Canon lenses have a less pleasing Bokeh wide open than others. The Canon 85mm lenses are undervalued and make a great buy in general. By the way, the [black] Canon 85mm/1.8 is priced much higher than the 85mm/1.9 or 85mm/2.0. I have the Canon 85mm/1.9, and I like it very much.

Raid