Noob dev questions - Neopan

[benno]

Hi guys,
I'm about to develop a few films, after having only a brief flirtation with DIY developing many years ago. And consequently I have some questions that I hope the collective wisdom of RFF can help me with (as the search function didn't help much).

1. Can anyone recommend an easy developer that works well with both Neopan 400 and 1600? Keep in mind my noob status... My local shop has Ilford LC29 in stock but anything else would have to be ordered in (from these guys most probably unless any other aussies have a recommendation)

2. I don't have a thermometer yet - how critical is this? If I get one, does it have to be a special photographic one?

3. Dishwashing liquid instead of photoflow? Squeegee/no touchy? Thoughts on the above?

I'm sure I'll have many more q's to come!
Thanks guys.
Benno

 

[drewbarb]

Greetings Benno-
A few thoughts: I'm not really familiar with Ilford LC29- I'd stick with D76, HC 110, Ilford ID-11 for nearly first-time processing, even if it means waiting a few days for the mail. These soups are easy to work with and give great results with most films. A thermometer is a basic necessity, as the developing process is pretty temperature sensitive. You don't need a fancy one- just one that will accurately read within a range from about 50F/10C to around 86F/30C. You need to be sure to get all the chemistry to the same temperature reliably- or at least within a few degrees of each other. Most good darkroom practitioners are pretty anal-retentive about working bang-on their temperatures; the most common standard temp to work with is 68F/20C. It's most important that the pre-wet (if you use it) developer, and stop bath are pretty much dead on; the fix and washes can be a little off if they have to be, but should not be more than two or three degrees in either direction.

Dishwashing liquid is fine instead of photoflo as a wetting agent- just use a tiny drop in a liter of water. DO NOT squeegee the film- just rinse it in the wetting agent and hang to dry. Good luck!

 

[martyryan]

Looking at the ilford site, LC29 would be a good choice for either film, yes a thermometer is a good idea, a basic one for B&W in not very expensive, and no you should not use dishwashing liquid, plain water would be better if you don't want to use photoflo.

Marty

 

[Freakscene]

>1. Can anyone recommend an easy developer that works well with both Neopan >400 and 1600? Keep in mind my noob status... My local shop has Ilford LC29 in >stock but anything else would have to be ordered in (from these guys most >probably unless any other aussies have a recommendation)

http://vanbar.com.au/ have most things you could ever need and deliver quickly by road or air freight. D76 or ID11 are probably better products to start and learn with than LC29. Almost every film develops well in these (they are very similar).

>2. I don't have a thermometer yet - how critical is this? If I get one, does it have >to be a special photographic one?

It is critical; your density will vary markedly with temperature. For instance, later this week it will be 37C here in Adelaide and the tap water will be 28-30C - at that temperature, processed at standard times, the resulting negatives would be unprintable.

>3. Dishwashing liquid instead of photoflow? Squeegee/no touchy? Thoughts on the >above?

Dishwashing detergents leave residue. Use PhotoFlo and dilute it a lot more than Kodak suggests (I use 1 drop in a litre of filtered, distilled water). other wetting agents from other manufacturers work fine too.

If you touch the film with anything, sooner or later you will scratch it. This is easily repaired if you scan your film, but it's still work and takes time. Only exceptional photos are worth that much work. After the final wash of your film, dip it into dilute wetting agent while still on the reels, them remove and flick the reels to get as much water off the film as you can. Hang to dry in as dust-free a place as you have.

Let us know how you go.

Marty

 

[giellaleafapmu]

Hi guys,
I'm about to develop a few films, after having only a brief flirtation with DIY developing many years ago. And consequently I have some questions that I hope the collective wisdom of RFF can help me with (as the search function didn't help much).

I would recommend any sirup developer like HC-110 or Rodinal because in my opinion it is quite easier to obtain consistent results (developer is always freshly mixed).

Temperature is quite critical because one or two degree above or below already change the developing time considerably, I think a thermometer is definively necessary.

I don't think it happens much if you use shampoo instead of a specific product but...is it really wort? All specific products cost just a few dollars and last litteraly for years, I don't see much of a point trying to save there.

As for ordering, I don't live in OZ but I am sure you can order online everything you need (I do from South America!).

Have fun!

GLF

 

[rgripp]

LC29 is fine for cutting your teeth. Similar in formulation to Ilfotec-HC & HC-110 but more dilute.
No powders to mess with, no thick gelatinous liquid that is difficult to measure or needs making into a stock first. Comes in a sensible size bottle, keeps well and gives consistent results ( a little care with temperature control and resisting the urge to act like a cocktail waiter throughout development). Maybe not the finest grain, but no ridiculous golf balls either. Keeps well - good for the spasmodic developer.
Readily available in the UK, made by a British company that is still upbeat about traditional silver-based photography, at a very affordable price.
Move onto Diafine with 3 drops of Rodinal and two coffee grains once you have got bored with the predictable quality of your LC29.

 

[red]

i've done neopan 400 in LC29...actually i pushed it to 1600..!!!

the results...

 

[mr_phillip]

LC29 is actually a good choice for someone new to developing – it's easy to mix, stores extremely well (it lasts in the bottle much better than most developers) and gives good, consistent results. I'd always recommend to anyone starting to develop their own film to use a single-shot developer (like LC29) for more consistent results anyway.

And yes, a thermometer is absolutely essential. The Paterson b&w one is reliable and cheap.

 

[benno]

Great thanks guys.

I think I'll probably go with HC-110 - a few people have got results with Neopan 400 that they at least seem to like. Hope it goes ok with 1600...

I can use any stop/fixer right? Doesn't need to be part of a 'system' or anything like that?

Thanks again!

 

[mr_phillip]

I can use any stop/fixer right? Doesn't need to be part of a 'system' or anything like that?

Quite right, use whatever you can find easily.

 

[giellaleafapmu]

I can use any stop/fixer right? Doesn't need to be part of a 'system' or anything like that?
Thanks again!

Sure, but I would try avoiding hardening fixers as they call for long wash, I mean, of course they work fine but a nonhardening is easier to wash...

GLF

 

[benno]

Well, here's a quick preview of my efforts:

Neopan 400
Ilford LC29 - 1+29 @ 5.5 minutes (24ºC)

Still need to sort my digitisation process out properly too.

More questions to come I'm sure 😱

 

[ibcrewin]

which was the 400 and which was the 1600?

Did you end up using the lc29 or the HC110? Nice work Ben.

 

[benno]

Cheers mate, they're all 400. I'll get to the 1600 soon.

Ilford LC29, 1+29 dilution, 5.5 mins @ 24ºC.

Here's one more that I like:
Midnight Juggernauts

 

[benno]

Ok, I have a few more questions:

1. What is the bleeding at the lower edge of the frame cause by? An agitation problem? I agitate continuously for 1 minute then for 10 sec every minute. Only some frames are affected...
Example:

2. Is there anything I can do to get finer grain with the same dev/film combo?

3. Wetting agent is $29 at my local shop - I know it will last for decades but I resent paying through the nose for something as simple as wetting agent. Is anyone using the dishwasher rinse aid stuff?


Overall, I'm pretty stoked with how they've come out, it's a very enjoyable process!

Thanks guys.

 

[Bruin]

Looking good, benno! I shoot Fuji Neopans exclusively for my B&W. I highly recommend Ilford's two bath fixing process and their wash procedure. Dishwasher rinse aid works just fine as a wetting agent...I sprinkle a couple drops of Jet Dry in my last rinse of distilled water.

Do follow Fuji's agitation instructions for Neopan - continuous for the first minute, then 5 sec (a couple inversions) every minute thereafter. Be gentle and your contrast will come out very nice. I would also try developing at a lower temperature like 20ºC so you can extend the times a bit.

 

[AzzA]

3. Wetting agent is $29 at my local shop - I know it will last for decades but I resent paying through the nose for something as simple as wetting agent. Is anyone using the dishwasher rinse aid stuff?

Hey mate, i just started developing my own film this week and got most of my stuff at Vanbar also. What wetting agent costs $29? Photoflo cost me $5.30 for 473ml. Is that the stuff you were after or something else?
Nice results by the way.
Cheers

 

[benno]

Kevin, I gave it a go at 20ºC for the roll of 1600 I did last night - cheers! Not sure if there's much of a difference... does it help with grain if I go for longer times?

Azza, I ended up buying my stuff from the local shop and 1 litre of ilford wetting agent was $29.

Here's one from the roll of Neopan 1600 I did last night:

Grainy!

 

[Bruin]

Kevin, I gave it a go at 20ºC for the roll of 1600 I did last night - cheers! Not sure if there's much of a difference... does it help with grain if I go for longer times?

Grain-wise, I don't think it makes a big difference. Neopan 1600 is fairly sensitive to over development or over agitation, which produces a "doomsday" look (high contrast, not much in the midtones). Developing at 20ºC instead of 24ºC extends the times and makes it easier to avoid overdeveloping. A more concentrated dilution might help a bit with the grain, so try 1+19 and 7 min.