dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
I've been so absent.
Both from here and from shooting "for fun".
The summer has been a busy one so far. I've been doing nothing but shooting weddings (second shooting mostly) and this has sucked up all my "free" time.
I can count, on one hand, the total number of free full (i.e. two day) weekends I've had. I don't know about the rest of you but my weekends are usually spent with one day doing cleaning/laundry/groceries etc. and the other day for "me". Well, when you take out one day out of the two day weekend, you end up having no "me" time.
So while I've been shooting it's not been RF shooting (it's all DSLR) and it's been pretty hectic.
So I think i'm going to go to one M body - maybe sell my M2 and definitely sell the 35m f1.2 Voigtlander as neither have been getting a regular "workout".
I miss being able to "relax" and sit and shoot... but lately.. that seems to be more of a luxury than anything else.
Cheers,
Dave
Both from here and from shooting "for fun".
The summer has been a busy one so far. I've been doing nothing but shooting weddings (second shooting mostly) and this has sucked up all my "free" time.
I can count, on one hand, the total number of free full (i.e. two day) weekends I've had. I don't know about the rest of you but my weekends are usually spent with one day doing cleaning/laundry/groceries etc. and the other day for "me". Well, when you take out one day out of the two day weekend, you end up having no "me" time.
So while I've been shooting it's not been RF shooting (it's all DSLR) and it's been pretty hectic.
So I think i'm going to go to one M body - maybe sell my M2 and definitely sell the 35m f1.2 Voigtlander as neither have been getting a regular "workout".
I miss being able to "relax" and sit and shoot... but lately.. that seems to be more of a luxury than anything else.
Cheers,
Dave
FrankS
Registered User
Missed you, Dave.
Hope Rover reads this. He may be able to help you out. This may become the "summer of fulfilment".
Hope Rover reads this. He may be able to help you out. This may become the "summer of fulfilment".
kshapero
South Florida Man
When will I have a summer without multiple GAS attacks, and a winter and a fall and spring? When?
dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
Thanks Frank.... I hope to see you guys in the fall - late September - when things, wedding wise, settle down.
I've been this way for quite a while now Akiva. Once I got really busy (both with full time work and the wedding photography) - all gear lust left my system.
The other thing I've noted is after so much shooting (yesterday's wonderful Jewish wedding alone was almost 1800 images) I get a bit burnt out and don't even want to consider holding a camera up to my eye...
Dave
I've been this way for quite a while now Akiva. Once I got really busy (both with full time work and the wedding photography) - all gear lust left my system.
The other thing I've noted is after so much shooting (yesterday's wonderful Jewish wedding alone was almost 1800 images) I get a bit burnt out and don't even want to consider holding a camera up to my eye...
Dave
FrankS
Registered User
The problem is digital, Dave. On a film wedding you would have been more selective and only taken 300 shots. Sell that nasty/evil dSLR instead. 
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M
Magus
Guest
Post deleted by posters request
somecanuckchick
Tundra Gypsy
dcsang said:
I can think of about a zillion ways to respond to the web designer comment... but none of them start or finish with anything other than me walloping you over the head with a pool snake.
Xmas
Veteran
Dave
Shoot lots of colour film >>300, scan for proofs.
One good shot 20x16 on ciba paper or slide show on large screen.
Bride and groom normally zero sales resistance.
Noel
P.S. pool snake?
Shoot lots of colour film >>300, scan for proofs.
One good shot 20x16 on ciba paper or slide show on large screen.
Bride and groom normally zero sales resistance.
Noel
P.S. pool snake?
dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
somecanuckchick said:
You've had almost a YEAR to do this and I've got NOTHING to show for it.. sheesh!!!
:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:
Dave
FrankS
Registered User
Now that explains a lot.
venchka
Veteran
Way back when...
Way back when...
Jumping in the Way-Back Machine...
The time is early 70s. Mrs. Wayne is prowling through shops on Magazine Street in New Orleans. I'm wandering the sidewalks amusing myself. A strorefront display cathes my eye. A series of lovely B&W wedding photographs with the unmistakeable look of available light. I wander in and I'm greeted by a tall, thin, long haired "Hippy" type gentleman. He explained his style: available light, 35mm, Leica equipment. I told him I was very impressed with his work. I often wonder what ever happened to him.
Fast forward: The concept may still work. Sell the idea on cachet, kharma, retro, niche, exclusivity, natural, made by hand, whatever. Folks are buying anything hand made these days. Pottery, glass, prints, you name it. Selling REAL photographs shouldn't be too hard.
Cheers!
Way back when...
dcsang said:
Jumping in the Way-Back Machine...
The time is early 70s. Mrs. Wayne is prowling through shops on Magazine Street in New Orleans. I'm wandering the sidewalks amusing myself. A strorefront display cathes my eye. A series of lovely B&W wedding photographs with the unmistakeable look of available light. I wander in and I'm greeted by a tall, thin, long haired "Hippy" type gentleman. He explained his style: available light, 35mm, Leica equipment. I told him I was very impressed with his work. I often wonder what ever happened to him.
Fast forward: The concept may still work. Sell the idea on cachet, kharma, retro, niche, exclusivity, natural, made by hand, whatever. Folks are buying anything hand made these days. Pottery, glass, prints, you name it. Selling REAL photographs shouldn't be too hard.
Cheers!
FrankS
Registered User
venchka said:
That's the style I plan for my portraits once I get into that after retirement from my real job. Dave, don't simply be one of the masses of digital shooters. Differentiate yourself. You've got a real job too that pays the mortgage, so do what you enjoy in your spare time. Right now you are a slave at 2 jobs.
somecanuckchick
Tundra Gypsy
dcsang said:
*ahem & points to logo re-design*
somecanuckchick
Tundra Gypsy
I agree w/ FrankS... shooting film, you would need to be far more selective, and if you were to shoot more than 300-500 per wedding you would have serious issues. (I added that last part, because FrankS was afraid to say it!) Just kidding!
FrankS
Registered User
Dave, if you're shooting that many images, maybe you should consider video?
ywenz
Veteran
It won't hurt to be a digital shooter such as her:
http://www.jcsphoto.com/newsite/index.html
That'll differentiate yourself more than a b&w film option would.. what it comes down to is the quality of the image itself, not some intangible differences between film & digital that only "some" of us can tell.
Shooting 300 images per wedding? Sure, you'd have to be freakin' amazing(I'd say top 5 in the client's market - seeing that you're from Toronto) and the couple is hiring you simply for your "unique" style. Otherwise, you'd need to shoot more and edit them down and do all the shots that the family ask for. Factoring in time for development & scanning, film is simply no longer cost effective as the primary medium for this industry.
Dave: I know how you feel, I do wedding videos as a side gig to my 9-5 regular job. I've 4 weddings in the pipeline that needs to be edited, one of which was from last summer! (thru no fault of my own) I've been wanting to get out of the wedding video business and into wedding photography as photography is much much less time consuming on a per project basis..
http://www.jcsphoto.com/newsite/index.html
That'll differentiate yourself more than a b&w film option would.. what it comes down to is the quality of the image itself, not some intangible differences between film & digital that only "some" of us can tell.
Shooting 300 images per wedding? Sure, you'd have to be freakin' amazing(I'd say top 5 in the client's market - seeing that you're from Toronto) and the couple is hiring you simply for your "unique" style. Otherwise, you'd need to shoot more and edit them down and do all the shots that the family ask for. Factoring in time for development & scanning, film is simply no longer cost effective as the primary medium for this industry.
Dave: I know how you feel, I do wedding videos as a side gig to my 9-5 regular job. I've 4 weddings in the pipeline that needs to be edited, one of which was from last summer! (thru no fault of my own) I've been wanting to get out of the wedding video business and into wedding photography as photography is much much less time consuming on a per project basis..
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Tegla
Member
Dave, for weddings maybe you should consider buying MF camera. Still digital can't beat that big negative which soaks so much light and so much details. I've bought Mamiya 6MF and tommorow I will get in my hands ))
Seller is a wedding photographer, and he had 2 of them. As going to digital he offered me one of them. But he still uses one Mamiya 6. He snaps hunderds digital photos, but 1 photo on 120mm beats all of them.
Mamiya 6 is light and is like Leica in steroids.
Cheers
))Seller is a wedding photographer, and he had 2 of them. As going to digital he offered me one of them. But he still uses one Mamiya 6. He snaps hunderds digital photos, but 1 photo on 120mm beats all of them.
Mamiya 6 is light and is like Leica in steroids.
Cheers
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
So if the web designer kerfuffle isn't settled by the next RFF meet, I will pay extra for the ring side seat.
dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
Lemme "splain" the 1800 for ya.
My wedding days are usually 12-14 hour (or longer) affairs so, in reality, maybe 150 shots an hour. The primary shooters I'm working with are racking up 2,500+ shots for the day. I'm not shooting to "keep up with the Jones' ".
The ceremony (depending on what type/length) sucks up a lot of those shots but so do the formals and the "getting readys". Three to four shots of each formal pose to ensure the "whoops... cousin Merle was picking his nose in that one and Aunt Brandine had her eyes shut in that one and Uncle Geech's goiter was in an awkward position in that one" are all taken care of.
At the end of the day, the edits are EXTREMELY tight - not just mine but the other photographers as well.
I do know that while I would be more "careful" (for the lack of a better word and just to use more quotes) shooting film there are a number of problems with this method for those that, as ywenz mentioned, really can't tell the difference b/w film and digital anymore: 1) developing - unless it's MY wedding (i.e. my couple, my booking) I'm not about to "waste" money/time on developing film 2) cost - film costs, as you're all aware, are getting expensive - 1 roll of 36 of decent film would be running me in the $5-10 per roll area (and I'm shooting available light Tmax 3200 or Delta 3200 along with 400 asa Tri-X) - so even 300 photos would add $40 to $80 or more to the cost of the wedding. 3) Proof costs - either I would be paying for 4x6 proofs (which I don't have to do now with digital as it's an online gallery) or I would be paying for someone to scan the images once I cull them.
I hate to rain on everyone's film parade but outside of those that DO want to pay for a film wedding, it just does not make financial sense to shoot a full film wedding anymore.
I'm not saying that it cannot be done or that it hasn't been done or that it's not being done currently but for the money I'm currently making second shooting it's not going to be feasible. It's that simple.
Now.. I know, as Ywenz has said, that 300 images - for an entire 12-14 hour day - is a very small amount and one had better be sure, absolutely positive, that they're capturing 150-200 MINIMUM shots that are bang on. That leaves you with 100-150 that can be "screw ups" - but even then, when I shot film, I was still shooting 2 or 3 shots of each formal pose because of exactly the same reasons (Cousin Merle, Aunt Brandine and Uncle Geech).
I will do a full B&W film wedding in the future - with a couple that will appreciate it, want it, and will allow me to shoot it - and guess what.. I won't even charge for it - because it is something I WANT to do; but for the time being, in order to continue to shoot (because I do like shooting period) weddings I must stick with digital.
Dave
My wedding days are usually 12-14 hour (or longer) affairs so, in reality, maybe 150 shots an hour. The primary shooters I'm working with are racking up 2,500+ shots for the day. I'm not shooting to "keep up with the Jones' ".
The ceremony (depending on what type/length) sucks up a lot of those shots but so do the formals and the "getting readys". Three to four shots of each formal pose to ensure the "whoops... cousin Merle was picking his nose in that one and Aunt Brandine had her eyes shut in that one and Uncle Geech's goiter was in an awkward position in that one" are all taken care of.
At the end of the day, the edits are EXTREMELY tight - not just mine but the other photographers as well.
I do know that while I would be more "careful" (for the lack of a better word and just to use more quotes) shooting film there are a number of problems with this method for those that, as ywenz mentioned, really can't tell the difference b/w film and digital anymore: 1) developing - unless it's MY wedding (i.e. my couple, my booking) I'm not about to "waste" money/time on developing film 2) cost - film costs, as you're all aware, are getting expensive - 1 roll of 36 of decent film would be running me in the $5-10 per roll area (and I'm shooting available light Tmax 3200 or Delta 3200 along with 400 asa Tri-X) - so even 300 photos would add $40 to $80 or more to the cost of the wedding. 3) Proof costs - either I would be paying for 4x6 proofs (which I don't have to do now with digital as it's an online gallery) or I would be paying for someone to scan the images once I cull them.
I hate to rain on everyone's film parade but outside of those that DO want to pay for a film wedding, it just does not make financial sense to shoot a full film wedding anymore.
I'm not saying that it cannot be done or that it hasn't been done or that it's not being done currently but for the money I'm currently making second shooting it's not going to be feasible. It's that simple.
Now.. I know, as Ywenz has said, that 300 images - for an entire 12-14 hour day - is a very small amount and one had better be sure, absolutely positive, that they're capturing 150-200 MINIMUM shots that are bang on. That leaves you with 100-150 that can be "screw ups" - but even then, when I shot film, I was still shooting 2 or 3 shots of each formal pose because of exactly the same reasons (Cousin Merle, Aunt Brandine and Uncle Geech).
I will do a full B&W film wedding in the future - with a couple that will appreciate it, want it, and will allow me to shoot it - and guess what.. I won't even charge for it - because it is something I WANT to do; but for the time being, in order to continue to shoot (because I do like shooting period) weddings I must stick with digital.
Dave
back alley
IMAGES
good to see you again dave, it's been a while eh?
sounds like some basic decisions need to be made (not counting getting a new web designer)
income or hobby?
shooting for money (not a bad thing) or enjoying it as a hobby and purely a creative outlet (not a better thing).
i shot weddings for years, on & off. some on my own for a basic fee and handed over the film undeveloped to the customer, some for a studio here in town where i handed the film to the owner and i got a basic fee.
i did it for as long as i could stand it (i was a hack wedding shooter) and then sold off all the wedding gear i had so i could not be talked back into doing it again.
enjoy the cash for as long as you can and then get out - and keep the m and fast 35 for when the fun is back.
joe
sounds like some basic decisions need to be made (not counting getting a new web designer
)income or hobby?
shooting for money (not a bad thing) or enjoying it as a hobby and purely a creative outlet (not a better thing).
i shot weddings for years, on & off. some on my own for a basic fee and handed over the film undeveloped to the customer, some for a studio here in town where i handed the film to the owner and i got a basic fee.
i did it for as long as i could stand it (i was a hack wedding shooter) and then sold off all the wedding gear i had so i could not be talked back into doing it again.
enjoy the cash for as long as you can and then get out - and keep the m and fast 35 for when the fun is back.
joe