Notice for Newbie Ebay Sellers

[john_van_v]

I did a post mortum of my ebay buying, and the truth is sad.

I seperated my working cameras and lenses from my non-working, and the non-working pile is about the size of the working set.

As it happens (when bottom fishing), the freight costs are a significant percentage of the camera cost. Added to that is the time spent fiddling to try to get things working, and of course the processing time and expense.

Sellers think they are giving you a deal even if it doesn't work when they evade the question "does this camera (or lens) work?"

When you figure in the total cost (of bottom fishing), then it approaches the cost of buying new, which means abandoning film for digital.

I am proposing here that we write up a short but complete bulleted list of things to do to check out a camera or lens before posting it for sale as working, and that we post it on ebay and attempt to get ebay to make it an official guideline for "noob" photography sellers.

Despite the obvious checks, such as winding the shutter and releasing it, you can still get a clunker: I have a Minolta 202 that I got working right through "exercise," but ultimately reached the parts heap because of a clutch problem (that produced interesting double and triple exposures.)

Here is a start, and I would welcome your critical comments on making this understandable by the most (supposedly) ignorant sellers (I swear, nobody is as stupid as some sellers pretend to be--it is as if stupidity is an excuse to steal):

(Wording is important here)

• Does the camera wind up and fire?
• Look carefully at the lens with a magnifying glass. Does it have any scratches. It is dirty or filmy to tell? If so clean it by splashing water on it (to get loose particles off) and wipe gently with a tissue to get grime.
• Does the lens turn smoothly, or at all?
• Does the iris, called aperture blades, close properly? (Explaining how to test is problematic, M42 is cake--little silver pin in back).
• If you don't now what camera it goes to, then can you show a picture of the back of the lens so we can figure it out?
• And if you don't know, why in God's name don't you say so? (you f'n noob)

See, this is alreadly complicated, but it has to be done if we are going to effectively save these parts from a trip to the land fill.

 

[Ducky]

I doubt if ebay cares at all about these issues.

 

[Gumby]

(you f'n noob).

Why the hostility toward sellers? I feel this way about buyers who take a risk and then complain, or buy a 40 year old camera and expect it to work like brand new.

 

[ruby.monkey]

To be honest, this tells us more about the buyer than about the sellers.

 

[Beemermark]

Why the hostility toward sellers? I feel this way about buyers who take a risk and then complain, or buy a 40 year old camera and expect it to work like brand new.

Here's the crux of the matter - these cameras are 40 or more years old. Over the years 95% of my selling transactions are flawless. Once in awhile something is wrong with the camera that I didn't catch, usually minor but it happens (self timer doesn't work, film counter doesn't work, etc.). Then there are those people who think a 50 year old M3 (or a Canon QL) VF isn't as bright as their brand new m7 and want their money back. And last of all is that percentage of people who think I'm Wal Mart and I should take it back because they can't figure out how it works or they just don't like it after two weeks. My best story is I sold an off brand Nikon mount lens that the aperature blades had fallen off. I described it as such and put it up for parts. Someone bought it for about $5. Upon recieving it they immediately posted negative feedback saying I was a crook. That, I think, is the only buyer that I did not refund his money. If he would have contacted me first I would have given him his money back and told him to keep it.

I'm sorry for the long winded rant but I've had way, way more problems with buyers than I have ever had with sellers, but hen again my expectations are fairly low. I assume most film cameras are in need of a $100 CLA. I only buy from people who have more than 50 transactions or so. I only buy if they promise to take it back if it doesn't work (which is rarely). I NEVER buy from someone who says he got this camera from his father/mother/brother/ long lost uncle and doesn't know anything about camera.

Over the last few years I don't even really try selling anymore. It's just too much of a hassle. Recently I responded to a WTB ad on this forum and ended up selling a Canon QL and Olympus XA for $80 including shipping. Ended up the Canon had a minor problem (took me 10 minutes to fix when I got it back), he never even opened the XA. I took them both back but do you really think it was worth my time and effort for a measly $80?

I'm sorry for the rant but I think eBay should post a warning for Sellers, not buyers.

 

[Gumby]

I'm sorry for the rant but I think eBay should post a warning for Sellers, not buyers.

So we agree... except I think the whining should stop and no "warning posts" to either buyer or seller are necessary or even warranted.

 

[Beemermark]

So we agree... except I think the whining should stop and no "warning posts" to either buyer or seller are necessary or even warranted.

Ditto, my comment was more sarcasm than an actual suggestion 🙂

 

[Gumby]

I NEVER buy from someone who says he got this camera from his father/mother/brother/ long lost uncle and doesn't know anything about camera.

I have, and these have often been my best buys. One needs to be a "smart buyer" or they will be sorely disappointed. Knowing when to buy and when to not buy is a skill that is part luck and part experience. Only experience allows one to gain that experience 🙂

"Bottom feeding" is a skill that involves considerable risk. One who wants to bottom feed must be prepared to accept that risk and not complain when there is a loss.

Sorry to be so clinical about it but those are the facts and little sympathy is felt by me (one who has both won and lost in this game) for whiners.

 

[Paddy C]

There is some risk in shopping on eBay. But eBay, IMO, provides some tools for mitigating that risk and the rest is up to you.

If you want a perfect camera, if you want to be sure of your purchase, than look for such a thing. Not only do they regularly come up on eBay, but you can get a deal too if you're patient.

If you're looking for the bargin/steal of the year, decade, century, or whatever, then you have to be comfortable taking the risk.

I agree with the posters above, that, on the whole, sellers have a more difficult time than buyers.

 

[rdrowe]

I've been with eBay for, what 6 years now. <rant>I think it is starting to become too expensive to make it worthwhile selling - and if there is a problem I have found that eBay give NO support - and take increasing percentages. But, as a buyer, it is becoming increasingly difficult to find decent, legitimate items amongst the dross of chancers and (alleged) thieves </rant>
I still use it, mind, but I wouldn't like to be a newbie....

 

[sevo]

I did a post mortum of my ebay buying, and the truth is sad.

I seperated my working cameras and lenses from my non-working, and the non-working pile is about the size of the working set.

No different here, but that is the price of bottom fishing. The cameras I buy for work do work, but are in a entirely different price range. And for fun items scored at below 20% market value, a 50% dud rate doesn't look that bad.

Nor do I care that the sellers are uneducated - the smart ones do sell at prices I won't buy for, while the occasional bargains can be had from dumpster divers that can't even tell where the front and back of a camera are. Over the course of time you develop a feeling for whether the seller really is clueless (and selling a random mix of trash and mint gear at equal price) or a cheat feigning dumb to offload his 100% broken ware...

Sevo

 

[bmattock]

All cameras and lenses purchased on eBay are presumed to be broken. Bid on that basis. If you get one that isn't, bonus.

 

[Gumby]

There y'go, folks... the only rule one needs to know. 🙄

 

[Jamie Pillers]

No... we buyers just expect it to work like the seller says it will!

 

[Jamie Pillers]

Selling a camera with a self-timer that doesn't work, or a film counter that doesn't work, in my opinion is NOT minor. These are the sort of things that drive buyers crazy... seller says camera works "perfectly" or "with no problems". When they do, then that is what we buyers expect... nothing more or less.

 

[Gumby]

No... we buyers just expect it to work like the seller says it will!

That's a reasonable expectation. But is it reasonable to expect a seller to do a microscopic analysis so the buyer doesn't have to ask questions if seller doesn't like the "One old camera... buy it or don't" description.

 

[venchka]

I got your list.

With a bullet!

1. Don't buy on ebay.

How hard is that?

 

[Gumby]

I1. Don't buy on ebay.

Between Mattock's rule and yours I think all bases are covered! 😀

 

[bmattock]

No... we buyers just expect it to work like the seller says it will!

The seller either does not know, or the seller misrepresents the equipment. Nothing else can be assumed. If the buyer is not willing to proceed with that assumption, the buyer is making an error in judgment.

 

[bmattock]

Selling a camera with a self-timer that doesn't work, or a film counter that doesn't work, in my opinion is NOT minor. These are the sort of things that drive buyers crazy... seller says camera works "perfectly" or "with no problems". When they do, then that is what we buyers expect... nothing more or less.

Buyer has an inflated sense of expectation. Caveat Emptor.