Nr. vs №

[Simon Bruxelles]

Is there any significance in the use by Leica of Nr. as opposed to № ? I am thinking particularly of a black Leica IIIa currently being offered on ebay with a claim that it is all original. Most sources suggest the only black IIIas were earlier models such as the IA which had been upgraded. This one does not appear to be an upgrade as the serial suggests it started life as a IIIa, however it does have Nr. as a prefix which is in itself slikghtly unusual. I have no interest in buying the camera but I am curious about it. If anyone is interested it is eBay #220946441534

 

[sevo]

A German Meyers 1909 encyclopedia only lists №/No. (from Italian numero) as a valid abbreviation for number, while a recent Wahrig lists it as historic/extinct, and Nr. as the regular abbreviation. Nazi and pre-Nazi campaigns against foreign words will have been one factor speeding its replacement - but the use of French/Italian terms in finance and accounting had already been on the way out throughout the 19th century, as Milan and Paris lost their dominant role in global banking after the Napoleonic wars.

Leica switched from No. to Nr. with the IIIf, but as far as I can make out, there is no strict consistency to numbers on factory replacement top plates - whether these received the original number in original or new spelling seems to have been at the liberty of the engraver.

 

[Cepg]

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/ indicates that 800 IIIa's was originally produced in black enamel finish. But hard to beleive that this example really was not repainted, it looks like new. But maybe it is from collection, who knows... At least, nickel parts also looks same nice 🙂

 

[Simon Bruxelles]

800 is not an insignificant number. Do you know where that information comes from? The references I have found so far all say there were no original black IIIas, only earlier cameras that were given an upgrade. Thanks, Simon

 

[john neal]

The lettering looks to white and the black paint to silky to be original.

Surely at that date all the engraving would be filled with Woods metal and the paint would be gloss laquer?

 

[LeicaTom]

No. is Leica original and Nr. is REPLACEMENT top plate from Factory, was a way they kept track of replaced top plates on older models.

Tom

 

[Simon Bruxelles]

Thanks Tom, that's the answer I was looking for. I recall having read that somewhere before but couldn't find the reference.

 

[LeicaTom]

Thanks Tom, that's the answer I was looking for. I recall having read that somewhere before but couldn't find the reference.

Yes, sadly I have seen at least 4 or 5 "stepper" and also "flat top" REPLACEMENT top plates put on / Original WW2 era Luftwaffen IIIC cameras that went back to the factory post 1945 and received new top plates at the owners request, hence the nr.

Tom

 

[sevo]

No. is Leica original and Nr. is REPLACEMENT top plate from Factory, was a way they kept track of replaced top plates on older models.

I don't know whether they actually kept track that way - Nr. simply was the proper nomenclature in later days.

 

[Dralowid]

Like John I'd suggest that this camera should be high gloss and woods metal....and really the condition is too good to be true.

I know some would argue about the existence of the 800 black IIIas, I don't have the knowledge to chip in but have always assumed that and black IIIa (and I have a few) is a conversion.

Picking up on Simon's comment, 800 is not a tiny number...they made a production run of less than 1000 SL2 MOTs and in Leica terms only yesterday.

Michael