Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Geez, c'mon you guys! I appreciate all the local knowledge you are bringing to this thread (thanks so much!!) but you're scaring the crap out of me even before I get there!
It is a big city now of 8.4 million. Never use to be more than 8 million for decades. Stuff happens. Watch the news.
The old New York is disappearing. New York is not so rough anymore, but still stuff happens.
Anyways if you connect the dots it becomes evident that with all the infrastructure building and construction that NYC will be a city of 10 million within a decade. Hudson Yards when completed will add about 200K-300K more people, and Queens South will also add another 200K-300K. These two projects will be finished within 5 years so they alone gets us close to 9 million.
There is a great disparity of wealth, the rich live right next to the poor, and there is great poverty that is concentrated. There are mentally ill people walking the streets, there are homelessness, and there are some angry people.
There is no other better time to be a photographer in NYC because the changing is happening so rapidly. To really be safe one has to know the history of the areas. For example I have a friend who was mugged in Fort Green by gunpoint literally on his stoop one night. This happened around 15 years ago when Fort Green was beginning to gentrify, even though it wasn't really a bad area.
The area around downtown Brooklyn is newly developed. Pratt University is embedded in that nearby area, yet it seems students become targets of crime.
My gal is an academic and teaches at Fordham's Grad School in Lincoln Center, but Fordham also has a campus in the Bronx. Every academic year it seems students routinely get robbed mugged, assaulted and raped routinely in the Bronx because: one they are not aware of their surroundings; they are preocuppied texting and surfing the Internet; and they are unaware of the privilage and entitlement they are displaying that comes off as arrogance.
The reason I talk about the harsh reality of urban living is if you believe you are in a safe place you will not be ready if something bad happens. NYC is about chaos and random events. That is what makes urban living edgy and exciting, but if you had to would you be able to flip the switch to process an appropriate response?
One summer day I was walking with John on East 116th Street in Spanish Harlem. We were kinda out of place, stood out as not being locals, and we were both carrying cameras. Understand that John is a rather big white guy with a shaved head, and I'm a tall (for an Asian) skinny guy with a muscular build.
Then we heard someone yell out, "You two-come here." The guy who yelled to us was a local that wore a leather vest that accentuated a powerful build of perhaps a UFC fighter. Next to him stood a sidekick.
The wrong thing to do would of been ignore the guy calling out to us, so John and I walked over.
"What are you doing here?" we were being directly asked in an aggressive maner. It wasn't "How you doing. What are you doing here?" if you know what I mean. It was tense and it looked like anything could happen. The other choice of ignoring him would have been an insult that would almost automatically esculate the already present aggression.
Now realize that I am a gentrifier and I kinda just moved into SpaHa just 15 blocks from where we were standing. I knew that half the people in the community received some form of government check, that one quarter of the population lives in Public Housing, and that Spanish Harlem is all about concentrated poverty that is somewhat institutionalized.
To help diffuse the situation I lifted the Leica held in my right hand and said, "Were photographing. I live in the neighborhood a few blocks downtown (really 15 blocks) by the 103rd and Lex subway."
But that was not what he wanted to hear. "What are you doing here," he said again, and then he turned to John and asked, "Are you a cop?"
"No," John said, but yet again that is not what he wanted to hear.
"Are you a cop?" he asked John again.
"Just because I'm a white guy with a shaved head, it doesn't mean that I'm a cop," John said, and everyone laughed.
We would later learn that this fighter was the local vigilante of East 116th Street, and also a bounty hunter. What became muddled is that he kinda bragged about being in jail, sentenced to 17 years for manslaughter, but that seemed untrue because he was too young, unless he maybe killed someone when he was perhaps at the age of 15.
We heard one story about how he broke up a robbery of a local licquer store without a weapon. He threw the guy though a plate glass window.
Then there was the tale of how he bounty hunted. He described his technic of stalking his prey by waiting for them to be engaged in talking to someone, and then he would attack cold cocking and laying out a man with a single blow while explaining, "You are the FXXX who has been screwing my wife." He claimed to have taken down 27 men that way.
He mentioned that the cops don't like him, and it is because he makes them look bad. LOL.
Anyways do you know how you would respond? Would you be cool enough to get yourself out of a sit-che-A-tion? Would you be able to flip the switch and become fierce? Would you be able to think past any fear?
I just say this because in New York anything can happen.
Cal
Steve Bellayr
Veteran
I agree walking across the Brooklyn Bridge is a magnificent experience. Other places are Coney Island, Brighton Beach, and Sheepshead Bay. Take a strong look at the Handball Courts just of West 5th Street in Coney Island. In the Ft. Greene area check out Brooklyn Technical HS, which is maybe the largest high school (bldg) in the world. In Manhattan your have Washington Sq. Park and Greenwich Village. How about Grant's Tomb? Why not a ride on the Ferry to Staten Island? Pick up a copy of The Village Voice and see what jazz groups are performing. That should hold you for a day or two.
roboflick
Well-known
i would be up for a meetup in Brooklyn or Manhattan at some point. Is one planned anytime? I would recommend visiting Brooklyn Bridge park Beautiful views of the bridge with downtown skyline in the background. One of my favorite places to shoot with my 8x10 camera.
Nik
Nik
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Well, he was direct with us, so I was direct with him.
John,
That day you saved us. Things were not looking good. LOL.
You broke the ice. I say that guy could of taken both of us down pretty easily.
Anyways you can't make this stuff up. LOL.
How cool are we that we lived to shoot another day. LOL.
Cal
There's one this Sunday on the LES. Check out:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=157013&page=2
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Nik,
This Sunday a group of us are meeting at ICP to see that show on cell phones and Social Media.
We plan on breaking off and going to our regular monthly Meet-Up at Lorelie's on Rivington which is close by 1:00 PM.
You could meet us at either location.
September's Meet-Up still has an open date. Pick a date if you like.
October has PhotoPlusExpo. Still time to register for free until August 31st. I tend to go early on Saturday to beat the crowds and usually leave around lunchtime. This year we will meet-up using Luis Mendez as our landmark right before the doors open.
Cal
MrFujicaman
Well-known
I hope I'm stating the obvious: Wear shoes that you can either run in or fight in. I like either sneakers or construction boots, be prepared for both.
Cal[/QUOTE]
Calzone, Walmart sells steel toed sneakers-so do several on line stores. Nothing says "leave me alone" like kicking a guy in the kneecap with steel toed shoes.
Cal[/QUOTE]
Calzone, Walmart sells steel toed sneakers-so do several on line stores. Nothing says "leave me alone" like kicking a guy in the kneecap with steel toed shoes.
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Calzone, Walmart sells steel toed sneakers-so do several on line stores. Nothing says "leave me alone" like kicking a guy in the kneecap with steel toed shoes.[/QUOTE]
I worked at two National Labs, and it was required to wear steel toed shoes, sneakers, or boots. The lab gave you a chit of $100.00 and if you exceeded that it came out of your pocket.
Back in the 70's I wore Frye cowboy boots, and back then I was quit a hot head. I dented many a car door when I couldn't drag a driver out of a car. I'm a lot calmer now, but I can still always flip the switch.
I'm a big fan of wearing weapons in plain sight. Being ready for anything is important for survival.
Even the camera held in my right hand is a weapon in plain sight. I don't like neck straps.
Cal
cz23
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That's a sobering account, Cal. Landscape photography, anyone?
John
John
nightfly
Well-known
Late to chime in but depends what you like to shoot. The more gentrified sections of Brooklyn tend to be less interesting visually.
There's some interesting industrial stuff and graffiti around Gowanus still. Some of the landscape there seen from the F train where it goes above ground is pretty cool. I also like some of the old factories in Greenpoint.
You can't really rival Manhattan for the sheer amount and diversity of people. There are certainly interesting parts of Brooklyn to shoot people wise but you will see more people in an hour on a busy corner of Manhattan than in an entire day in Brooklyn.
Brooklyn isn't witout it's charms, great food and lots of stuff to do, but less dense which is why people move there. Most of the murders and things that you read about happen toward East New York as you get further out toward Queens. These areas tend to be underserved by subways and hence cheaper so not as easy to get to.
I see people toting cameras everywhere now so I wouldn't be too worried. You have to really try to get yourself into a bad area these days.
Enjoy your trip. If you're in Ft. Greene, take a look at what's happening at Brooklyn Academy of Music (BAM), they have really amazing music, movies, talks etc. Fall is usually a good new season of stuff.
There's some interesting industrial stuff and graffiti around Gowanus still. Some of the landscape there seen from the F train where it goes above ground is pretty cool. I also like some of the old factories in Greenpoint.
You can't really rival Manhattan for the sheer amount and diversity of people. There are certainly interesting parts of Brooklyn to shoot people wise but you will see more people in an hour on a busy corner of Manhattan than in an entire day in Brooklyn.
Brooklyn isn't witout it's charms, great food and lots of stuff to do, but less dense which is why people move there. Most of the murders and things that you read about happen toward East New York as you get further out toward Queens. These areas tend to be underserved by subways and hence cheaper so not as easy to get to.
I see people toting cameras everywhere now so I wouldn't be too worried. You have to really try to get yourself into a bad area these days.
Enjoy your trip. If you're in Ft. Greene, take a look at what's happening at Brooklyn Academy of Music (BAM), they have really amazing music, movies, talks etc. Fall is usually a good new season of stuff.
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
That's a sobering account, Cal. Landscape photography, anyone?
John
John,
Walk the length of Highbridge Park which is a kinda feral park that is mostly abandoned along the Harlem River. You will see locals cooking right next to the "No Barbecue" signs near almost all the park entrances, but just past that is a no-man's-land where there are no people, no police, and basically you are on your own.
Park lights are toppled over and overgrown. In the wooded areas no lighting works.
There are small sections like under the George Washington Bridge where there is a skateboard park and the Pool where it is civilized and there are people, but most of the park is overgrown and not maintained and is left neglected and this is a rather large park in Madhattan.
There are some nice landscape shots of the Bronx, but a long lens is required as basically you are on a cliff near the George Washington Bridge.
One summer day I walked the length of Highbridge Park alone with two Leicas in a bag. I started in Inwood, went down Washington Heights, and ended in Harlem. Other than at the entrances, the skate board park, and the pool, I only ran into the same person twice.
We were both surprised to see each other, especially the second time; we both understood that any approach would be an act of hostility; and we maintained distance.
Years ago during the Credit Crisis I shot a lot around Newtown Creek. The neglect and sense of abandonment created this moody longing that resonates with my own history and the past. I have mucho medium format landscape negatives that today I think are kind of important.
Much of the old New York is disappearing or is today gone. Today a modern highrise in Long Island City is in a shot I took. It looks awkward and partially blocks the view of the Empire State Building that I took at night.
I lived in Long Island City during that time and at night this all industrial area was uninhabited. You kinda were alone. I think I do my best shooting alone.
Cal
Prest_400
Multiformat
I recall that area and the image quite well. That huge metal overpass that acted as leading line to the Empire State Building. Then those residential "isles" near Newtown in between the industry. Quite strange, but I remember saying that it did look a decent area, and at least the houses looked like so but in case of anything happening you're on your own there.
I kind of became the way that sometimes running into people is worse than being alone, there's a special mojo in solo exploration.
Also how now the high rises were patched, one here and another there without the infrastructure. Soon and they will be all around. A couple of days ago some kids burned a nice forest on a hill near my home. It takes nothing to realize what was, is, and won't be again.
As the one touristy thing, I did go up the observation deck of the Empire state and it was curious to see that side and how the day before the building was seen from LIC and Brooklyn. Kind of another world beside the hype of Manhattan.
As European, there is no other city like it and frankly, since then, European capitals are a bit "meh" and seem rather similar to me.
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
J-D,
Today a very strong skyline is happening around Court Square in Long Island City. When I lived in LIC it was in a historic row house on the same block as the Citigroup skyscapper. Right in front of my house runs the 7 train. Basically I lived right next to the tallest building on Long Island that was considered a terrorist target. When it snowed Citigroup shoveled my front sidewalk for their 24 hour foot patrols.
Things have dramatically already changed since you were last here.
Cal
EDIT: I understand that perhaps London is an exception to your statement about European cities. In many-many ways very similar to NYC: Banking and Finance center; expensive luxury housing; money laundering center by the extremely rich, huge amount of immigrants, ethnically diverse, extremely high cost of living...
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cz23
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Thanks for that, Cal. We Midwesterners are relatively civilized, well-mannered, and rule-abiding. The stereotype is accurate. There are notable exceptions of neighborhoods you wouldn't want to go near, but most urban areas can be wandered safely. And there's much ethnic diversity where shooting is safe.
Over the last couple of years I've changed my approach to street shooting. I no longer think of myself as photographing people. I focus instead on urban compositions with people as elements. It's a subtle but important distinction in my mind. So I'm looking at lighting, setting, and arrangement. People are important, but as just another element in the composition.
I don't know if this has made for better or worse photographs, but I enjoy it more and like what I produce. Maybe it's age or that I've become colored in a midwestern sensibility, but I don't want confrontation or to insert myself unwanted into other people's lives.
John
My philosophy as well... good to see someone else think the same way.
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
John,
Thanks for sharing.
I think I kinda stretch the limits sometimes and maybe cross to places I should not go.
I clearly see a dramatically changing New York, but imbeded in me is part of the old New York from the 70's when we almost became like Detroit meaning bankrupt and kinda left for dead. Understand that what is getting exaggerated in this thread is the violence I kinda grew up with being an Asian (Chinese) during the Vietnam era.
The first thing I learned in Kindergarden was how to fight. By third grade I was really good at it. Pretty much I had to learn to stand my ground alone. I had no choice but be aggressive and at times crazy to survive.
Also I was born in 1958, and in the U.S 1960 census there were less than 235K Asians in the U.S. Amplify that by growing up in the Long Island suburbs when there was little to no ethnic diversity.
I cast a heavy flavor from my past. Thanks for the opportunity to explain all this. Today NYC is about 20% Asian. On one hand I am/was one in a billion, but in the U.S. I was part of a group that was a fraction of even 1/2 of a percent.
Cal
Prest_400
Multiformat
The citigroup building, a landmark I noticed upon arrival and departure with the LIRR. I'm not recalling well how the construction sites were around that area, as I remember more the Brooklyn waterfront works.
Indeed, it's been half a year... Quick enough to rise a building and a plenty more.
London, Paris might be in that category and specially the British city. It does not have the overwhelming presence of NYC (Madhattan).
I'm in the list of those who have a pre and post-NY conception. The not so wide aves and streets engulfed by the skyscrapers and dark night mood.
I enjoyed walking (and shooting) around Midtown at nighttime, there's a lot of Noir ambiance still. I was surprised that Manhattan can be rather dark and not brightly lit at night (out of the Times Sq madness).
+2. I rather always thought of people as part of something bigger rather than targeting them as main subjects. I always kept a not too close relation with people in photography.
jszokoli
Well-known
The amount of construction just now in that area of Long Island City is staggering.
In the the area formed by the Sunny Side train yard, and the loop of the #7 subway, there are so many brand new, under construction, and sites waiting to break ground that I can't begin count them in my mind.
The Citigroup building was the first in that area and it took years to be joined by The City University of New Your Law school, but of late the rate of construction is simply explosive.
Just outside of that loop was five points, that's gone and the court street diner is about to get a huge new neighbor.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_Pointz
I can't think of anything like it in may 50+ years in New York.
Joe
In the the area formed by the Sunny Side train yard, and the loop of the #7 subway, there are so many brand new, under construction, and sites waiting to break ground that I can't begin count them in my mind.
The Citigroup building was the first in that area and it took years to be joined by The City University of New Your Law school, but of late the rate of construction is simply explosive.
Just outside of that loop was five points, that's gone and the court street diner is about to get a huge new neighbor.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_Pointz
I can't think of anything like it in may 50+ years in New York.
Joe