New York NYC December Meet-Up

I think in this day and age it is wise to keep your photos in as many forms as you can. Prints can be ruined, files can be corrupted, etc. A fire can wipe out all. Digital is good in that realm because it's easy to keep a copy off site or on a cloud.
 
Cal,
I am just sitting here printing out some photos for my wife that she shot on her Galaxy Tab 4 Tablet. The prints are 5.5"x10" of her sculpture. She just wanted them printed on ordinary paper, and uses them as working views. The thing is, back in the 60's I would have spent hours in the dark room to get the same set of prints. Quality wise, the prints would have been slightly better with a 35mm camera, but taken a lot more effort. For quick and dirty it is hard to beat some of these tablets and digital technology.
Cal, I am also deeply impressed in how good your Monochrom is and how the IQ approaches large format with perfect technic and using Piezography.
I missed the last meet-up because of a family event, but will see you the 13th.
Steve
 
dshfoto said:
Cal,
I am just sitting here printing out some photos for my wife that she shot on her Galaxy Tab 4 Tablet. The prints are 5.5"x10" of her sculpture. She just wanted them printed on ordinary paper, and uses them as working views. The thing is, back in the 60's I would have spent hours in the dark room to get the same set of prints. Quality wise, the prints would have been slightly better with a 35mm camera, but taken a lot more effort. For quick and dirty it is hard to beat some of these tablets and digital technology.
Cal, I am also deeply impressed in how good your Monochrom is and how the IQ approaches large format with perfect technic and using Piezography.
I missed the last meet-up because of a family event, but will see you the 13th.
Steve
Click to expand...

Steve,

I kinda took printing to an even higher level, and the results are stunning. The images are now a full 13x19 (marginally bigger), but the large borders make the 13x19's (17x22 paper) seem a lot bigger than they are.

I mistakenly used the term HDR because the amount of detail and the tonality seems exaggerated when compared with my earlier prints that you have seen. I'll be bringing some of the same images that you have seen before, and even without a side by side comparison you will take note of mucho added detail, especially in the shadows, and an extended tonal range that I'm not use to seeing even in medium format.

This all came about due to Anthony, (Not Jamal) calling me about getting some advice about framing a print that I gave him a while back, and I decided to make an improved version for framing. I wasn't expecting such a drastic jump in IQ.

Cal
 
HEADS-UP: I bought a package of Epson Exhibition Fiber in 17x22 yesterday. This particular paper does well with Piezography's seven shades of black, and in particular with the warm neutral to selenium split tone that I am using.

It seems the Jon Cone Type 5 is the best for shadow detail, but the Epson Exhibition Fiber is great with highlights and is reported to give off this glow that resembles a wet print on fiber.

I'll be making some new prints of the same file to compare the looks of these two papers with the same inkset. Nice thing about the Epson paper is that it is less expensive than the Jon Cone Type 5 and I have a New Jersey connection to get good bulk pricing without NYC sales tax. My dealer in New Jersey is the biggest Canson distributor in the U.S. If anyone wants to bulk up on paper let me know.

Kinda crazy but I've already made about 30 prints over the past week and a half, all 17x22's.

Cal
 
Laid down 7 shades of black last night on the Epson Exhibition Fiber. Wow. a really different look. Even without the gloss overcoat that fully developes the shadows and blacks I can see that these prints closely resemble silver wet prints on fiber. Might be a dead ringer and easily mistaken for a silver wet print.

The Jon Cone Type 5 has an extended tonal range that has mucho deep blacks and shadow emphisis, but the Epson Exhibition Fiber has that typical compressed range of tone of a silver wet print and the selenium tones really glow. Both papers have a baryta coating.

I'm really excited to see what these prints look like after the gloss overcoat. I like to wait a day for the prints to dry fully because they dry flatter and perhaps another wet coating on top of a not fully cured 7 shades of black could soften the image. It seems that I have one paper for blacks and shadow details and another for upper mids and highlights.

I made 5 prints so far on the Epson EF and it will be interesting to get opinions and preferences from photographers with trained eyes to compare the differences. These are 13x19.5 prints on 17x22 with the only difference being the paper and its corresponding printing profile curve (images and post processing are the same files for both prints).

There is a major big jump in image quality in this work from my earlier work prints. The format looks a lot bigger/larger. Really hard to imagine that it is this good.

Cal
 
Sunday meet-up

Sunday meet-up

Calzone said:
Laid down 7 shades of black last night on the Epson Exhibition Fiber. Wow. a really different look. Even without the gloss overcoat that fully developes the shadows and blacks I can see that these prints closely resemble silver wet prints on fiber. Might be a dead ringer and easily mistaken for a silver wet print.

The Jon Cone Type 5 has an extended tonal range that has mucho deep blacks and shadow emphisis, but the Epson Exhibition Fiber has that typical compressed range of tone of a silver wet print and the selenium tones really glow. Both papers have a baryta coating.

I'm really excited to see what these prints look like after the gloss overcoat. I like to wait a day for the prints to dry fully because they dry flatter and perhaps another wet coating on top of a not fully cured 7 shades of black could soften the image. It seems that I have one paper for blacks and shadow details and another for upper mids and highlights.

I made 5 prints so far on the Epson EF and it will be interesting to get opinions and preferences from photographers with trained eyes to compare the differences. These are 13x19.5 prints on 17x22 with the only difference being the paper and its corresponding printing profile curve (images and post processing are the same files for both prints).

There is a major big jump in image quality in this work from my earlier work prints. The format looks a lot bigger/larger. Really hard to imagine that it is this good.

Cal
Click to expand...

Cal, will you be bringing any of your recent prints to this Sunday's meet-up?
I would really like to see what you're putting out after all your efforts.
 
Cal, I second that Cal, will you be bringing any of your recent prints to this Sunday's meet-up?
I would really like to see what you're putting out after all your efforts.
 
kkdanamatt said:
Cal, will you be bringing any of your recent prints to this Sunday's meet-up?
I would really like to see what you're putting out after all your efforts.
Click to expand...

K,

I have a new batch of prints (25-30) that is elevated to a new level that I just made since Thanksgiving. I have prints on Epson Exhibition fiber and Jon Cone Type 5 (both baryta papers) using the same inkset and file for comparision. I printed these 13x19 1/2 on 17x22 so the size reveals a lot about IQ and tonality.

The prints I made on the Epson Exhibition Fiber look more like a fiber silver wet print than a fiber silver wet print. The tonality is warmer than the Jon Cone Type 5 and the finish is smoother to give that glossy sheen just like a silver wet print.

The Jon Cone Type 5 has deeper blacks, more shadow detail, and a wider tonality, but the finish with the gloss overcoat is more like a satin finish rather than glossy. The tonality is a bit cooler than the Epson EF, but is still warm toned.

I recommend that anyone who is interested in serious B&W digital printing should come see the prints that I'll be bringing. Rare opportunity to handle prints in your hands and feel the paper. I'll be bringing a lamp that makes D-5000 daylight so you can really see the detail and the tonality under daylight conditions.

The IQ and tonality is kinda mind blowing. I dare say that I am getting large format quality. The prints are big enough that they don't need to be printed bigger, but the IQ is there that suggest why not print mucho big. Know that I'm printing tone and detail that you cannot see on a 27 inch EIZO that is dimmed down to 80 Lumens in a darkened room.

Cal
 
dshfoto said:
Cal, I second that Cal, will you be bringing any of your recent prints to this Sunday's meet-up?
I would really like to see what you're putting out after all your efforts.
Click to expand...

Steve,

Not only all my efforts: all my money.

I would be surprised if I don't get an exhibition next year. In fact that is my goal. At PhotoPlusExpo I kinda blew away the Leica guys at the SL booth with just one print. Pretty funny that they repeatedly asked me if it was a wet print. The senior manager infered that if I could get to California that he would give me a show when I inquired about applying for artistic support.

I always said that I was holding off with printing until I could have the ways and means of printing for exhibition. Now with the divine intervention that occurred I now have an Epson 7800 and the capability to print 24x36. Many thanks to Chris, Mike and Joe.

Didn't think I would get to where I am so fast. I'm blown away with what my Monochrom can do, and with Piezography it seems like a match made in heaven. Over the past 3 weeks I reprinted my latest advances and consumed about $300.00 in paper alone. The carts on a 3880 are not that big and topping them up alone has become a constant pain.

I'm thinking of optimizing my 3880 inkset a little cooler when I get my 7800 online and maintaining two printers. Anyways this is the "Calzone" thing to do. With the most recent Piezography inks I can basically blend my own inkset as long as I restrict my blending to the same shades. For example I can blend a shade 4 warm neutral with a shade 4 selenium in any proportion to vary my split one. I can do this with other shades to make the transitions of true black, warm shadows and cool highlights mucho smooth and with a high level of artistic control. Basically everything is custom and my way even though Jon Cone did all the heavy lifting.

Understand that the seven shades of black are printed in a series of overlapping curves at 2880 DPI with no "dither" for mucho resolution. Then the gloss overcoat gets rid of any bronzing or materism with a bonus of adding a protective coating that is durable. I print "Unidirectional" so making a single 17x22 takes 22 minutes times two printing time alone (seven shades of black first; gloss overcoat is the second printing a day later). I found that a day of air drying is better than using a heat gun to speed things up for flatter paper and fully cured inks that could get softened.

Understand that I have to consider getting an firewire Imacon for my negatives. This is a big-big deal because I use to be an unreformed old school wet printer. Call me radicalized but I never though that I might have to abandon the notion of ever wet printing again.

Interesting to note is that Joe is partially responsible for my most recent jump in IQ and tonality. Anthony is also partially responsible because I wanted to make an improved version of a work print that I gave him for custom framing. I was optimizing a RAW file taken by Joe's new Monochrom that had a great distribution of tone that had a remarkable exposure because it was a very challenging high contrast light but has a full range of midtones as well.

When I made the print I took notice of a squirrel in the deep shadow of a tree in the foreground that I never saw on the EIZO. It became an epiphany that I'm printing more than what is displayed on my 27 inch EIZO. Basically the 27 EIZO as great as it is is just a simplification and an abstraction of what is really captured by a Monochrom.

You once said, "You can't print what's not there" in reference to a good negative, but the eye opener is you can't see what you have in the shadows unless you print. My Eizo even dimmed down and in a darkened room still is too contrasty. Now I know there's a whole lot more information there to spread out, print and exploit. That is what is displayed in these new prints.

Cal
 
Calzone said:
The IQ and tonality is kinda mind blowing. I dare say that I am getting large format quality. The prints are big enough that they don't need to be printed bigger, but the IQ is there that suggest why not print mucho big. Know that I'm printing tone and detail that you cannot see on a 27 inch EIZO that is dimmed down to 80 Lumens in a darkened room.

Cal
Click to expand...

Cal,

Large format, like 8x10 sheet film?

John
 
SuperUJ said:
Cal,

Large format, like 8x10 sheet film?

John
Click to expand...

John,

With some files: like 8x10 contact printed in a vacuum frame as far as resolution. Perhaps not printed on Kodak AZO, although the tonal range is mucho long, especially the Jone Cone Type 5. I'm thinking like contact printed on silver fiber paper pretty easily.

Come see the prints and you tell me. I'm not saying every file prints this way, but if every thing is perfect like exposure, focus and the shutter speed is high enough to simulate a tripod then I say yes.

I see no weakness in the prints. The extended tones and resolution are so smooth that it does suggest large format. My highly detailed landscape shots seem to favor the Jon Cone Type 5 for presentation of more information, but for my street shots the Epson really looks like a silver wet print. In a way the Jone Cone paper is a step towards a salt print with an extended tonality.

One of the guys in the Leica SL booth was a name I kinda remembered as being notable. This guy I would later learn is affiliated with Phase One and is a very serious photographer who shoots View Camera digital. I was able to deeply impress this guy with just one of my 13x19 work prints. It did seem like the Leica guys in the SL booth didn't or couldn't believe that the shot was taken with a Monochrom and that it wasn't a wet print. One print became a thousand words. I was further mandated to show both my SL-2 MOT and my print to some Leica senior director at another booth.

At PhotoPlusExpo I bought a ariel shot of the Domino Sugar Refinery taken from the Williamsburg Bridge with a 28 Cron set at F8.0. I originally brought this print to give to my friend Robert Rodriguez who is the Artist In Residence at the Canson booth. I simply borrowed the print back from Robert and later returned it.

After I harassed the guys in the SL booth with my Leica SL2-MOT for not coming up with a more original name for their new camera. I basically told them, "Why do I need a new SL when I already have an old one?" LOL. I couldn't help it because I'm a jerk. Basically at every year at PhotoPlusExpo I hair-ass the guys in the Leica booth in some notable manner.

My shot required climbing up on a railing and leaning over to a 120-150 foot drop and certain death if I fell onto South 5th street below to avoid getting the bridge's casion in my shot. I have been documenting the demolition of the eight city blocks along the East River over the years, and I discovered that someone must of reported my actions to the authorities because yesterday I found a new tall chain link fence and barbed wire erected to prevent me from taking my shot. I imagine that anyone who saw me taking a shot could think here is a crazy person trying to kill kimself. Anyways I found a work around but the flat lighting yesterday killed my shot anyway.

Last year I basically pre-paid $1750.00 to get $2.5K worth of printing from Digital Silver Imaging. I had many fiber silver prints enlarged to 24x36 on 30x40 paper. While the wet prints from DSI offers a certain smoothness, I like better the results I am getting from Piezography.

Cal
 
Cal,

I agree that the pizo printing is awesome. However, I could not get it working on my R1400 and I don't want to reload my 3880 because I need to print color too often. (Anyone wants the R1400 they can have it if they pick it up, just PM me.) For the time being I will just use the native ink set and QuadTone Rip. I suppose that I need more formal education as I am not as technical as you are. I could always go here: http://cone-editions.com/workshops.html
I found a book at the NYC Public Library called "The Intrepid Art Collector" by Lisa Hunter. It gives a good explanation of what the gallery scene is all about. You can reserve (place a hold) online and pick it up at your local branch. It seems to have really good info for those of us who want to make "art" prints.
In case you have not seen it, here is one man's view of the SL http://www.imx.nl/photo/blog/
Interesting that Erwin concludes, "My advice for 2016 (the celebration year if ten years digital M) is a simple one: stop reading about new Leica products by the evangelists, stop buying new Leica products (or if you really need one buy the M-A and the M262) and devote the full year to improve your artistic capabilities."
Steve
 
dshfoto said:
Cal,

I agree that the pizo printing is awesome. However, I could not get it working on my R1400 and I don't want to reload my 3880 because I need to print color too often. (Anyone wants the R1400 they can have it if they pick it up, just PM me.) For the time being I will just use the native ink set and QuadTone Rip. I suppose that I need more formal education as I am not as technical as you are. I could always go here: http://cone-editions.com/workshops.html
I found a book at the NYC Public Library called "The Intrepid Art Collector" by Lisa Hunter. It gives a good explanation of what the gallery scene is all about. You can reserve (place a hold) online and pick it up at your local branch. It seems to have really good info for those of us who want to make "art" prints.
In case you have not seen it, here is one man's view of the SL http://www.imx.nl/photo/blog/
Interesting that Erwin concludes, "My advice for 2016 (the celebration year if ten years digital M) is a simple one: stop reading about new Leica products by the evangelists, stop buying new Leica products (or if you really need one buy the M-A and the M262) and devote the full year to improve your artistic capabilities."
Steve
Click to expand...

Steve,

It has taken me about 3 years of shooting the Monochrom to get where I am at. Thanks for the flattering remarks, but I just consider myself a guy with a ponytail. When I first laid out the $8K for the MM I dedicated myself to optimizing its potential. I figured out a way to minimize post processing by using filters, and then I learned further that Heliopan "Digital" filters nail the sweet spot of the CCD sensor. If anything it is just the basics of photography like exposure and fundamental technic that have taken me this far. Shooting and developing crazy amounts of film in a sustained manner really made me nail those fundamentals.

This past year of Piezography printing has made me discover the old studio artist within me, and the experience is very similar to when I was in art school decades ago where the challenge was to impress myself and no others. Along the way I annoyed many people, LOL, but I also developed my own style.

Really glad I ran with the ball and went "All in," as Mark Cuban would say. Interesting to note that the dedication to printing has made me a better shooter as well as an editor.

I think your difficulties using a desktop printer with Piezography is not isolated. There seems to be some serious limitations to overcome with small printers, and the earlier inks were more prone to clogging that compounded inconsistencies in the smaller printers. Know I bought my 3880 with a $250.00 rebate, and I basically did not load any inks for over a year while I gathered funds for an EIZO. I did a lot of research over the years on what hardware to buy that had "legs" so I would spend my money only once by buying durable goods. The 3880 is the smallest printer that I would consider, and know it is a workhorse.

As you know the real deal is the full pro printers like my 7800. That's where things really open up. Looking forward to the more advanced paper handling and exploiting the superior loading.

Cal
 
Have a good time all... it's too damn nice today to sit in a bar, so I'm going to take a rare pass on the meet-up. See everyone in January!
 
jsrockit said:
Have a good time all... it's too damn nice today to sit in a bar, so I'm going to take a rare pass on the meet-up. See everyone in January!
Click to expand...

John,

I can't blame you. It was a cool meet-up though geeking out on printing big time. Many attending print with a 3880. I really learned a lot from other experts and it really opened my mind to fresh ways of thinking. Much helpful advice from trained eyes.

Pretty much like in art school where you get stimulated by others. Many thanks to some great insights.

It was really great to see Helen. I really missed her.

Cal
 
jszokoli said:
Kal,

While at the meet-up I had mentioned that I had seen Louis Mendes, on the Queens Borough Plaza. Well the mystery was solved when I jumped on the subway and into the 1930's. The NYCTA was running their holiday special, see;
http://www.mta.info/news-nostalgia-...y-bus/2015/11/25/mta-new-york-city-transit-ny

Joe
Click to expand...

Joe,

Louis gets around. Every year he invites me to go to New Orleans with him to shoot the Maw-D-Graw. Basically he takes Amtrack and works the train as well as the city.

Back in the day Louis hung out with W. Gene Smith during the time of the "Jazz Loft" in Chelsea's flower district. Had 4 kid's with four different women and never married. Sent all his kids to college doing his street portraits.

One time I ran into Louis at the Park Avenue Armory during some Art and Antique event, and he asked me to hold his camera and watch his bag while he got some lunch. Basically for about 20 minutes I was a Louis Mendez impersonator and the crowds of strangers converged upon him (meaning me the impersonator). One friend of Louis' made sure that my story was legit making sure something bad didn't go down and waited suspiciously until Louis returned.

Anyway for 20 minutes I was kinda famous and became the urban legend. The experience was kinda powerful. Louis taught me that I should never put my camera down, and to always have somehow the camera strapped to me. He told me a story of when one of his Crown Graphics was stolen in Coney Island when he put it down for just a moment.

I have mucho shots of Louis and I also have mucho portraits that he took of me. It was a great compliment when someone said that I remind them of Louis Mendez because they keep bumping into me at B&H and Adorama.

Cal
 
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