Freakscene
Obscure member
Indeed, especially when it is not technical or specialist language, it is simply concocted to make the commentary harder to understand and seem more special or insightful than it is.
Marty
charjohncarter
Veteran
Sorry, guys it was a parody on art critics. My joke.
Freakscene
Obscure member
Too good. I thought it was sufficiently weirdly worded that it was real 👍🏻
Marty
telenous
Well-known
The text parsed the phenomenon, yet commodified our intentions and colluded over our shared repetitiveness of a minority experience, denoted by a sliver of grounded presence in the shape of materialized form. That alone should have given the game away.
Chapeau!
peterm1
Veteran
True today? Really? A bit overheated surely. When was the last time you saw persons of color or of other races relegated to the back of a bus?
I take anything written by The Guardian or the NYT for that matter with a huge grain of salt.
EDIT: I see belatedly that this was intended as a parody. The sad thing is that it is so easy to mistake parody for post modern clap trap that was suggested by the indecipherable, pseudo intellectual and high flown language. It does not change my words above though. Especially in relation to The Guardian and the NYT. I think they both have a life long subscription to this website................THE POST-MODERN GIBBERISH ESSAY GENERATOR:
https://tnextphase.wordpress.com/2014/05/28/post-modern-gibberish-essay-generator/
telenous
Well-known
Let's not lose sight of the topic of the thread and the linked article: Robert Frank's photo and the lesson it brings from that era to us.
peterm1
Veteran
One of my favorite people in the whole world is Thomas Sowell, American economist and philosopher. He is a treasure and he has quite a few things to say both about the vacuousness of post modernism and about the differences between the 1950s and today for minorities. He argues relentlessly that for many black folk like himself economic and social outcomes were actually better (believe it or not) in the 1950s notwithstanding the gross and horrible racism of those times. And the prime reason for this is given below in one of his more insightful quotes (though it is hard to choose - he is so insightful on so many topics):
"The black family survived centuries of slavery and generations of Jim Crow, but it has disintegrated in the wake of the liberals' expansion of the welfare state."
And perhaps his final word on all of the claims of racism prevalent today is this:
"The black family survived centuries of slavery and generations of Jim Crow, but it has disintegrated in the wake of the liberals' expansion of the welfare state."
And perhaps his final word on all of the claims of racism prevalent today is this:
telenous
Well-known
Jesus wept.
DHK
-
I think we’d all agree everyone would have been better off if Africans weren’t taken as slaves in the first place.
peterm1
Veteran
Absolutely. It was an horrific injustice. But my point is that history is a process. Change and enlightenment does not happen over night. I quoted Sowell below and in another quote he points out that slavery is as old as history and just about every civilization once had it. It took a long time to largely get rid of. (Truth is it is still around in some countries just not the modern democracies).
What those who want to attack USA, England and western civilization generally will not admit (assuming they even know) is that it was England which unilaterally abolished slavery and then took it upon themselves to use its great naval power to police the high seas to make sure it actually stopped in practice (admittedly having previously been a significant part of the trade). And it was America which fought a bloody war largely to eliminate slavery on its own shores (having also previously participated in the trade). Apparently all of that counts for nothing and somehow today that sacrifice is supposed not matter. We are all required instead to accept that we bear the "original sin" of living in countries which once participated in slavery or benefited from it. And worse still we are be seen by some as having inherited racism with our white skin - though in my case and I suspect most people, I have seen my DNA chart and there are a lot of non white genes in there too (as if that racial cr#p matters). In any event this is an idea which is itself the very definition of racism. Yet it is pushed relentlessly by those who regard themselves as my moral superiors. But of course we know that is not the point. That is just a convenient means to attack people as a route to power.
Dan Daniel
Well-known
Peter, you might be mistaken in exactly WHAT is a parody? johncharter in post #19 "quoted" some flowery post-modern gunk, and then later admitted that t was his writing meant as parody (this is how I understand what was going on there).
I do not think that the author nor anyone else has declared that the NY Times article on the Frank photo that started this thread is meant as parody. It may very well be unintentional parody to some, of course (and as I wrote above, author/artist's intentions are often not important to reception of a work).
Race is a complex subject in the USA, and often a very emotional one. I doubt that a forum like this will provide the kind of space and consideration needed for a full understanding of what leads each of us to view it as we do. I do like the parable of the five(?) blind men exploring an elephant by touch- depending on where you approach from, what one perceives can be grossly different. I have found that assuming good intentions to people even when it is obvious that the elephant they have hold of is nothing like my elephant is a good basic rule to maintain. Dialog is tough in such fraught and contentious times. Although from another liberal source, The New Yorker, I have found the following article to contain some interesting thoughts:
https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-future-of-democracy/the-right-to-listen
charjohncarter
Veteran
John Carter paraphrased the ideas given to him by Charles Paris which he (Charles) apparently received from a female art critic.
Nice one Telenous.
helen.HH
To Light & Love ...
Wow Peter, You really got heated under the collar
and to think I read BBC, the Guardian, The New Yorker ...giggles
I have two clients that are in the Forbes Black America's Wealthiest
I am almost certain that list would not exist pre 1950's
there has been growth in Black American Life but for sure slow in coming
Racism / inequality still exists and a long road ahead
To the OP, Thank You I enjoyed the article
I did love piecing the puzzle together / Frank's photos and the Critic's perspective
and to think I read BBC, the Guardian, The New Yorker ...giggles
I have two clients that are in the Forbes Black America's Wealthiest
I am almost certain that list would not exist pre 1950's
there has been growth in Black American Life but for sure slow in coming
Racism / inequality still exists and a long road ahead
To the OP, Thank You I enjoyed the article
I did love piecing the puzzle together / Frank's photos and the Critic's perspective
Michael Markey
Veteran
I don`t take any papers and I no longer have a TV.
sjones
Established
It’s telling the way racists preemptively cover themselves by attacking anyone who might call them out for what they objectively and definitionally are. As their spurious contention asserts, the accusers are the problem---the perpetuators of racism---not the guilty practitioners; or that’s what we are led to believe.
To suggest that the liberal welfare state is predominantly responsible for the current struggles that many black Americans confront is so ludicrously tendentious and simplistic in its observation, that it dangerously detracts from real world approaches to deal with the indisputable issue of structural racism, which afflicts all institutions of this country.
But look at the projects? Yes, and look at the fact that many of the inner-city projects failed because of several factors, not the least of which was racism and capitalism itself, which drove white city residents (and job opportunities) out into the suburbs just as subsidized urban housing was taking hold. Compounding problems was the subsequent relocation of industry overseas, another consequence of capitalism, while federal assistance needed for upkeep dwindled.
And let’s also not forget the racist city planning directives and dubious housing contracts that deliberately segregated and swindled African Americans to their economic detriment. Meanwhile, racist redlining practices continue to this day that undermine any hope of attaining substantial financial growth in areas of most need. The culmination of these endemic barriers have far-reaching effects that will require decades more to effectively address, should we ever.
Frankly, the question should be how worse poverty would be without state assistance. And let’s not forget that, because of our racist narrative, we associate ‘welfare’ predominantly with black urban Americans, the dreaded “welfare queen”, when it is white rural residents who benefit more, that is, outside of the main groups who are the greatest beneficiaries: the disabled, elderly, children, and veterans…those damned moochers and takers, just slaves to the system.
In any event, I need only point to the immutable truth that if bigotry was truly abhorred in this country, the bigoted fascist in the White House would have never made it past his xenophobic coated presidential campaign announcement. Trump won in 2016 because of his Goebbels-inspired rhetoric, not despite it. And while he has since repeatedly demonstrated blatant acts of racism, among countless other intellectual and moral atrocities, he still has the support of some 60 million Americans, and he could still win again.
But we fought to free the slaves. Yes, and we also fought to preserve slavery. And while slavery would have ended on its own for various factors aside from the moral imperative, it would likely still be on the books in certain Southern counties had aggressive federal intervention not occurred. But more to the point, why should we seek gratitude for finally ending something so heinously immoral that it should have never occurred. Thank you, rapist, for not raping me again…see how absurd that sounds? And I say this for both sides of the political spectrum: common decency should be the norm, not a self-gratification competition.
And, as the Frank photo clearly documents, let’s not forget that racist segregation laws in the South continued for another century following the Civil War, an oppressive situation worsened by terroristic lynchings. Conservatives actually started spewing the obtuse ‘pull-yourself-up-by-the-bootstrap’ argument prior to the Civil Rights Act while legislated discrimination was still imposed. Think about that.
Moreover, the oppressive and marginalizing impact of segregation was markedly exacerbated and prolonged by mass incarceration, in which black youth faced far worse sentencing than their white counterparts found guilty of the same crime. The ruinous effect of our biased judicial system cannot be ignored, and I highly recommend folks watch the documentary, “13th”, by director Ava DuVernay to better grasp the engrained magnitude of systemic racism.
Yes, white guilt loves the soothing elixir that a black conservative can offer; I know firsthand. But reality forces reexamination, and if anyone cites Candace Owen, then consider yourself a contributor to racism. We rewarded a lying, bigoted, idiotic fascist our country’s highest office, while the GOP has spent the last decade implementing bigoted voter suppression measures. Think about this, and then say with a straight-face that racism is largely the fabrication of its vocal opponents or conniving politicians. Shall we blame the Jews for the Holocaust?
To suggest that the liberal welfare state is predominantly responsible for the current struggles that many black Americans confront is so ludicrously tendentious and simplistic in its observation, that it dangerously detracts from real world approaches to deal with the indisputable issue of structural racism, which afflicts all institutions of this country.
But look at the projects? Yes, and look at the fact that many of the inner-city projects failed because of several factors, not the least of which was racism and capitalism itself, which drove white city residents (and job opportunities) out into the suburbs just as subsidized urban housing was taking hold. Compounding problems was the subsequent relocation of industry overseas, another consequence of capitalism, while federal assistance needed for upkeep dwindled.
And let’s also not forget the racist city planning directives and dubious housing contracts that deliberately segregated and swindled African Americans to their economic detriment. Meanwhile, racist redlining practices continue to this day that undermine any hope of attaining substantial financial growth in areas of most need. The culmination of these endemic barriers have far-reaching effects that will require decades more to effectively address, should we ever.
Frankly, the question should be how worse poverty would be without state assistance. And let’s not forget that, because of our racist narrative, we associate ‘welfare’ predominantly with black urban Americans, the dreaded “welfare queen”, when it is white rural residents who benefit more, that is, outside of the main groups who are the greatest beneficiaries: the disabled, elderly, children, and veterans…those damned moochers and takers, just slaves to the system.
In any event, I need only point to the immutable truth that if bigotry was truly abhorred in this country, the bigoted fascist in the White House would have never made it past his xenophobic coated presidential campaign announcement. Trump won in 2016 because of his Goebbels-inspired rhetoric, not despite it. And while he has since repeatedly demonstrated blatant acts of racism, among countless other intellectual and moral atrocities, he still has the support of some 60 million Americans, and he could still win again.
But we fought to free the slaves. Yes, and we also fought to preserve slavery. And while slavery would have ended on its own for various factors aside from the moral imperative, it would likely still be on the books in certain Southern counties had aggressive federal intervention not occurred. But more to the point, why should we seek gratitude for finally ending something so heinously immoral that it should have never occurred. Thank you, rapist, for not raping me again…see how absurd that sounds? And I say this for both sides of the political spectrum: common decency should be the norm, not a self-gratification competition.
And, as the Frank photo clearly documents, let’s not forget that racist segregation laws in the South continued for another century following the Civil War, an oppressive situation worsened by terroristic lynchings. Conservatives actually started spewing the obtuse ‘pull-yourself-up-by-the-bootstrap’ argument prior to the Civil Rights Act while legislated discrimination was still imposed. Think about that.
Moreover, the oppressive and marginalizing impact of segregation was markedly exacerbated and prolonged by mass incarceration, in which black youth faced far worse sentencing than their white counterparts found guilty of the same crime. The ruinous effect of our biased judicial system cannot be ignored, and I highly recommend folks watch the documentary, “13th”, by director Ava DuVernay to better grasp the engrained magnitude of systemic racism.
Yes, white guilt loves the soothing elixir that a black conservative can offer; I know firsthand. But reality forces reexamination, and if anyone cites Candace Owen, then consider yourself a contributor to racism. We rewarded a lying, bigoted, idiotic fascist our country’s highest office, while the GOP has spent the last decade implementing bigoted voter suppression measures. Think about this, and then say with a straight-face that racism is largely the fabrication of its vocal opponents or conniving politicians. Shall we blame the Jews for the Holocaust?
DHK
-
There’s a great book called The Origins of the Urban Crisis that details what sjones speaks of above.
tbhv55
Well-known
If there were a 'like' button on RFF, I'd use it for this post.
tbhv55
Well-known
I have no knowledge of the Manchester Guardian, but the BBC is a long way from being Liberal/Left, from where I stand. I have indeed considered cancelling my TV licence - not because I find the BBC to be Liberal/Left (it isn't) - but because it is evidently running scared of the Tory Party. BBC political output appears to be determined to promote the agenda of the blustering dimwit currently pretending (but failing) to be capable of running the country.
So, how about that great photo?
robert blu
quiet photographer
So, how about that great photo?
Yes, it's a grat photo with a lot to observe as we read from the NYT article.
I agree Frank didt see all these details when he took the photo but probalby noticed them when editing.
It's not only a simple snap of a New Orleans Trolley but much more, just my idea.
What is interesting is the fact that sometimes looking deeply into a photo you can discover so many details not noticed before.