Odd ball

[BrianT]

Now here's a bit of an odd ball. Kiev 4 1960 without self timer, flash synch and although the focussing wheel is present...no focussing mechanism. Another strange thing is the tremendous wear on the outer bayonets, even the face plate is heavily scored. I'm wondering if it has been used mounted onto a microscope or similar. The lens that iarrived with is also somewhat strange. The Jupiter name is in Latin script and it is the only lens I have seen without the serial number denoting the year of production, as shown here the number is 018265. One other thing which isn't that unusual but worth mentioning. When I opened the camera I found a film still loaded from one cassette to another To enable a partly exposed film to be removed.

Very strange the seller from Kiev said he knew nothing about it but as I had bought many items from him perhaps I would like it for my collection for not much more than the cost of the postage.

That wear is puzzling

GOI anyone.....No I couldn't be that lucky.🙂

er

 

[rxmd]

Now here's a bit of an odd ball. Kiev 4 1960 without self timer, flash synch and although the focussing wheel is present...no focussing mechanism.

What do you mean? Obviously there is an inner bayonet; does it turn at all or is it fixed? Or is there just no linkage between the focusing wheel and the inner bayonet, or the bayonet and the rangefinder (if there is a rangefinder at all)? Definitely a strange beast, though.

GOI anyone.....No I couldn't be that lucky.🙂

Unlikely IMHO. From what I see from Princelle at least, neither GOI model had a Contax-style bayonet.

The lens was made by KMZ, which supplied lenses in Kiev mount to Arsenal only until 1955 (Princelle, p. 208). So that already gives a terminus ante quem.

Philipp

 

[outfitter]

The lens was made by KMZ, which supplied lenses in Kiev mount to Arsenal only until 1955 (Princelle, p. 208). So that already gives a terminus ante quem.

Philipp

Can't be a terminus ante quem as the Kiev 4 was not produced until 1958 according to Princelle. Looks like a marriage of lens and body.

My question is whether there is a hole for the self timer under the leatherette? A member of this forum recently rebuilt a Kiev 4, left off the timer and recovered the body so it is not unknown. Ditto the removal of the infinity lock which annoys some people. I suppose the exclusive use of a 35mm lens (also not unknown for any 35mm RF camera) could wear the out bayonet mount after many years.

I think with any camera "variation" that can be easily produced by the user, the presumption is that it is just that (i.e. user modification) and not a factory variation.

Michael

 

[Valkir1987]

When I opened the camera I found a film still loaded from one cassette to another To enable a partly exposed film to be removed.

Maybe you can still have it developed!

 

[BrianT]

Michael, the body under where the self timer should be is solid. But the synch hole is still there. Seems funny why anyone would go to this sort of trouble. As I said the vendor virtually gave it to me. Seems the lens is rather more interesting at least for me as it is the only KMZ I have.

This Princelle book. I think I had one a while ago and tossed it out as useless on kievs....I might be wrong. Any way I can't find it, has it been updated? the only thing I remember is it just wasn't available or delayed, please remind me. if it has been enlarged/updated is it now worth while?

Brian

 

[outfitter]

Princelle suffered among other things from a machine (computer) translation into English. A much promised 2nd edition apparently made it into print, but Hove the publisher went belly up. Copies are (were?) listed at some photo book websites. I haven't seen the 2nd edition but it was supposed to have a real translation; beyond that I know of no other improvement.

Princelle was always like the talking dog for me - not how well it spoke but that it spoke at all. Now some websites have filled in more accurate info and better photos so there are sources of better information on some topics. I always try to copy good info and photos to my hard drive.

Michael

 

[outfitter]

Michael, the body under where the self timer should be is solid.

Brian

That says factory original to me; perhaps a prototype version that lessons costs.

Prototypes of new suggestions were regularly made and sent off to Moscow for approval. Ah the joys of a centrally planned economy.

Another possibility is what gun collectors call a "lunch box special" - parts (some unfinished) stolen from the assembly line and assembled by a worker at home.

Michael

 

[rxmd]

Hi Michael,

Can't be a terminus ante quem as the Kiev 4 was not produced until 1958 according to Princelle.

Yes, not on the body of course. Looks indeed like they were put together later on.

Princelle suffered among other things from a machine (computer) translation into English. A much promised 2nd edition apparently made it into print, but Hove the publisher went belly up. Copies are (were?) listed at some photo book websites. I haven't seen the 2nd edition but it was supposed to have a real translation; beyond that I know of no other improvement.

The version I have here is an English-language "Enlarged Second Edition", ISBN 2-9522521-1-4, published in 2004 by Le Rêve Edition, English distribution by NewPro Ltd, Faringdon, UK, 293 pages. The translation doesn't read like a machine translation, and there's credits for a translator, so I guess there's different versions of the book out there.

Philipp

 

[outfitter]

Description: ALL English Text ISBN-2-9522521-1-4, Le Reve Edition - Chantal Muller, France, 2004, Second Edition. 8 1/4 x 11 3/4", 292 pages, Soft Cover. This revised second edition has been corrected and considerably augmented. Spontaneous feedback by a large number of collectors and close, interactive collaboration with a minority of them, have considerably enriched his second edition. Over 900 black & white photo's and illustrations, over 50% of the book is new material. Bookseller Inventory # 003832

available for $79 (gulp) here:

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/ListingDetails?bi=413452306

Michael

 

[Jean]

Hello all,

It seems to be a Kiev 4a 'medical' - a very rare camera. There's another one in DVD techcameras collection :

http://www.dvdtechcameras.com/collect/arsenal/arsenal.htm

I don't know about the lens. As I own a 1959 Kiev mount KMZ Jupiter 8, I have some doubts about the 1955 year as end of production.

BTW Michael, according to Princelle Kiev III DIN knob is only of German manufacture. As I have opportunities to meet him, I'll ask confirmation.

The bad news is that he's not working in updating the book in the very near future because he's involved in another project. Good news : he owns a huge
documentary and can improve the book.

Jean

 

[BrianT]

I don't know Jean but it's nice to dream, maybe, maybe not.

Michael I know just what you mean. How about the "Siberian" model sold to the Russian army.....Ha, Ha. Mind you it would make the camera easy to operate with gloves so..........

But for the few dollars it cost it's fun and the camera has got the more unusual Ukranian engraving.

 

[350D_user]

Michael I know just what you mean. How about the "Siberian" model sold to the Russian army.....Ha, Ha. Mind you it would make the camera easy to operate with gloves so..........

Hmm... the infinity lock's easy to use whilst wearing gloves?

 

[outfitter]

Hello all,

It seems to be a Kiev 4a 'medical' - a very rare camera. There's another one in DVD techcameras collection :

http://www.dvdtechcameras.com/collect/arsenal/arsenal.htm


Jean

The Kiev medical in that picture has a collar around the outside bayonet mount to make it inside mount only, as well a fixing screw for the tube that adapts to various instruments (microscope, endoscope?)

That could be another question for Mr. Princelle. I just love running down these odd balls, probably bores most of the members of this forum to tears.

Michael

 

[outfitter]

I don't know Jean but it's nice to dream, maybe, maybe not.

Michael I know just what you mean. How about the "Siberian" model sold to the Russian army.....Ha, Ha. Mind you it would make the camera easy to operate with gloves so..........

But for the few dollars it cost it's fun and the camera has got the more unusual Ukranian engraving.

Ah the Siberian model another nice dream. My grandmother was from Siberia, my grandfather told me that when he was out there you bought milk frozen by weight and if you drank tea immediately after coming in from the cold your teeth would crack. Doesn't sound like a hospitable environment for a Contax clone even if it were easy to operate with gloves - Contax cameras were apparently not used much by the German Army because the Leica was better in cold weather (and they didn't even make to Siberia except as prisoners of war).

Michael

 

[BrianT]

Michael, when I got the camera loose in the box was an outside bayonet ring. In fact it's tucked in a drawer somewhere. If I remember correctly it was just the rear bayonet ring of the 35mm lenses, which are just held on with three screws.

Interesting anyway, Kievs, don't you just love em?

Brian.

 

[Jean]

Hello,

For those interested in Kiev mount Jupiter 8 lenses here's my KMZ sample with serial number 5936505 - beside from the same year (?) an Arsenal Lens but it's not a 8M.

Second picture is two samples from 1951.

Jean

 

[BrianT]

I was wrong I hadn't chucked it, I have just unearthed the Princell. But I was right in that I think it was a complete waste of money.......four pages devoted to the Contax/ Kiev, two pages for lenses of which one is a nonsense. Terrible text and awful illustrations, I have tried to see if any of the lenses he shows has JUPITER engraved in Latin rather than Cyrillic script, don't think so but as I say the illustrations are awful. Reckon I'll put things right and chuck it.....it's a waste of space