oh my god!

Yeah, I learned the hard way that "backup" means having more than one copy of your files. If I was a digital camera person I'd use a RAID drive, or maybe put all my files on at least two drives, then back them up somehow too.
 
sitemistic said:
Well, I use 500 gig and terabyte usb drives all the time. I have hundreds of gigabytes of digital files on these drives. I also have smaller USB drives that I've had for several years with the original copies of many of these files. I have never had a USB drive fail.

I think you had a problem with a drive. It says nothing about the viability of USB drives for file storage. It does indicate why you should have more than one copy of any kind of file.

Every company you do business with uses hard drives every day. This anti-digital hysteria is over the top.
Click to expand...

In general I agree. We do have to keep up with comptuer technology. When there is a change, it is time to upgrade to that change and move files. That is pretty well accepted in computerdom. However, normally things tend to be reliable. I know nothing about MACs so I cannot be of any help. With PCs there are a lot of recovery tools. Some work better than others, sometimes it just requires different tools. I too have several drives and haven't had a problem with usb itself.

emraphoto - I sure am sorry to hear of your problems. I sure hope you can recover those files. If so, I certainly suggest, as have others, that you make more than one backup, and if current drives are ever replaced, backup to whatever replaces them. Same for DVDs if you start backing up to them. Good luck.
 
Sorry to hear about your problems. Hope you can recover your lost files.

That being said, I really can't understand why people don't back up their important files. Four years of work, and no backup? That's really asking for trouble.

In addition to external hard drives (Western Digital being my favourite brand), I burn my photos to DVD's *and* store them online (using one of the many web based services that offer offsite backup). Even if my house burns down, I'll have my photos safely stored elsewhere. Can't say the same about my slides and negatives. Something to think about..

Here's an article from NYT which you may find useful:

Fewer Excuses For Not Doing A PC Backup

Jarle
 
i was IN THE PROCESS of moving and backing up the files... i certainly am all about embracing new technology but this is a lesson i cannot ignore. there is NO HARD COPY of the files. that is not an acceptable situation to me. one week ago i was willing to embrace migrating files and keeping things up to date. i would have been willing to own and maintain multiple drives... not now. period. i will certainly scan slides and negs and continue to work with cs etc but it will be a frosty day in... well you know where, before i trust digital storage again. losing all my files from 4-5 years of shooting doesn't qualify as "hysteria" for me. losing sleep over it "possibly" happening, perhaps... having it actually happen? that's a very concrete and very serious problem. to have such little trust in the process that i have to run MULTIPLE storage options is not something i am willing to do. so far the tech folks i have spoken with are pointing the finger at the ac powered usb hub... since i have removed it from the fray everything once again seems stable. however in the process it managed to destroy an sd card, a full weekend worth of shooting AND quite possibly 4-5 years worth of work.
sure mistakes were made on my end by not having MULTIPLE back-ups but no matter what is said about the viability of digital capture and storage IT IS NOT viable for long term storage in my CURRENT opinion!
 
sitemistic said:
Not backing up files for four years is faith, not reason.
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well thank you very much for pointing out the painfully obvious. although there was very little chance that i wasn't already aware of such an issue i most certainly have been enlightened now.
 
BOSS65 said:
This is why if your pics are digital, they should be saved on several types of different media - on your computer, dvd, cd & / or external hard drive. You never know which one is going to fail.
Click to expand...

Furthermore, in ten years time, you are not going to know which creation device still exists for you to read the ten year old media. With the exception of hard drives, other media has all changed so rapidly that it's becoming difficult to find a drive to read the media created just ten years ago. This will happen also with hard drive technology, I am sure. But, I am rapidly becoming convinced that the USB interface is already weakening in viability for storage purposes.
 
emraphoto said:
perhaps you have some useable information or hints for recovery as per the original post rather than underlining what i have already been so painfully made aware...
Click to expand...
It's not clear to me what you've tried so far, but a Google search for "mac file recovery" (and similar terms) will list several different recovery tools and services. Any serious Apple dealer should also be able to help.

Good luck.

Jarle
 
thanx jarle... as mentioned i have tried numerous recovery programs but it's out the door to the shop right now.
kuzano-you are talking some serious logic and i for one am not sure i want to spend all that time migrating files from media to media. i most certainly do NOT trust the usb interface at this point.
 
Isn't it amazing how all threds end up in the same place? I think it's a sign to take more pictures, do more work, read and post less... :eek:

/T
 
John, a decent filesystem doesn't just wipe out the whole HD with zeroes (which will take a while) unless told to do so, explicitly. So most likely the data is still in there. Hopefully you can find someone well versed in data recovery. I've seen data recovered from smashed HD plates. Don't lose hope yet.
 
I remember seeing some survey which indicated only a very small number of people do back-up on a regular basis - like les than 2% (I wish I could remember the link). Lets all learn from this .. Unfortunately tomorrow is too late .. back up today.
For you film folks .. then I guess scanning is a back-up .. but nothing is safe. Over all my house moves over the years at one stage I lost all my negs, I have a box of slides maybe 10% and a few positives. Think about your own situation and don’t be too prudent .. if there is the smallest chance it will happen .. then it is more likely it will happen .. that’s what I find.
 
sitemistic said:
"well thank you very much for pointing out the painfully obvious. although there was very little chance that i wasn't already aware of such an issue i most certainly have been enlightened now."

The point is that you are blaming the technology for your failure to exercise reasonable caution.

Clearly you've been shooting digital for several years. How long have you been shooting film?
Click to expand...

Harsh man.... I have worked on computers since 1987 in a consulting on both hardware and software. I tell you this. We have been largely deluded by an industry who could give a Rat's Ass about our archival process. We've been led to believe that the system is trustworthy, and it is not, under the best of circumstances. I make my living, not as much by the mistakes and misunderstandings of the consumer, but as a result of a system that lulls us into a sense of complacency and trust with limited solutions when that trust is betrayed. I am 64, intelligent, thorough and I understand computers and digital systems to a degree that is beyond routine usage.

I know a lot of photographers, who appear to be computer savvy and are using computers in their work daily. Great tools and they use them effectively. However, I don't believe that any one of them understands the gravity of putting a lifes work into the digital system as an archive. The amount of work, and the loss of image quality it is going to take to stay up with archiving work through the evolving (devolvint) changes of technology over a 30 year career span is going to take thousands of hours of time away from the actual act of capturing images. AND, from what I see right now, looking at the users and their use of time and knowledge, it's going to be at high risk.

In this case, blaming technology and the limited education and support that technology affords, is quite the right thing to do. They need to spend more time being up front about the limitations of their products. The industry as a whole is self serving and cares only about engineering and throwing uncompatible systems into the marketplace to insure their own existence. I submit, do we really need more technology than we currently have. For that matter, did we really need any technology developed in the last five years. It's the constant attempt to mix new technology with old that stirs up the mush, and it is the fault of the industry, and those consumers that don't have the time to sort out what works and doesn't as well as those people who trust the lies and lack of information provided by the industry

In this case, should there have been more backups, done with some regularity, and on three different types of media, and another for off-site storage. Probably, but who has the time.

No, this problem would have surfaced anyway. And it would not have had the gravity, because of all those extra backups to look at it as a serious deficiency of digital filing.

Rant Over, with this final comment. There are a much higher percentage of people at this type of risk than you imagine. You may be one of the very few who are doing everything right. May you never lose a digital file ever, and I do not trust that is not going to happen to you at some point.
 
again

again

sitemistic said:
"well thank you very much for pointing out the painfully obvious. although there was very little chance that i wasn't already aware of such an issue i most certainly have been enlightened now."

The point is that you are blaming the technology for your failure to exercise reasonable caution.

Clearly you've been shooting digital for several years. How long have you been shooting film?
Click to expand...
I wasn't blaming anything or anybody... I was merely sharing my INCREDIBLY frustrating experience with my peers in the hope that they might offer up some helpful hints. I have no interest in discussing how long I have been shooting film and/or digital. I am seeking information or like experiences in the hope that I may be able to retrieve the files. I am sitting anxiously in the parking lot of a recovery shop anxiously awaiting the results.when I say I don't trust digital that is the whole of the conversation. I, personally DO NOT TRUST DIGITAL ANY LONGER. Plain and simple... Rationale or not. I do know that I have shooting long enough to make that decision... I hereto proclaim I DO NOT TRUST the digital process. And may I ad I know a whole group of working photographers that don't trust it either.
Believe what you wish about what has transpired... All ia sk is if you do not have helpful advice please, please refrain from rubbing salt in my wounds for at least a day or so.
John
 
sitemistic said:
kuzano, you seem to be arguing for a zero fault system. Isn't going to happen. How do you back up original negatives? You simply do the best you can with what you've got.

Making multiple backups is not a problem. Every file we create at the newspaper is written at the same time to three hard drives. Could all three fail at once? It's possible, but that's simply the best we can do.
Click to expand...

OK, you're right on that point. I seem to be arguing for a Zero fault system. Well, In reality, I would like a better system than the one we have. I would also like to see technology complete the work on both their hardware and software before they bring it to market. I would like to see the system own up to the faults of this "too early" distribution path. OK, that's not going to happen.

And, the consumer is the one who has to reach out for education. The problem the consumer has in doing so is that the industry is such a foreign commodity that most consumers don't ask the questions because the system pretends it is flawless. If the consumer trust the systems, then the first question to ask is Why does the industry have such a convoluted system of technical support.

Yes, responsibility must be shared. And there will never be a Zero fault system.

You did mention one thing that give rise to a temporary solution. As you said, the newspaper writes all files to a redundant system (three hard drives). Then it follows that the newspaper has an IT department, with one or more people fully dedicated to just these issues. In addition, anyone working and using such a network, is aware of the issues simply by awareness of the need for dedicated employees addressing storage and file access.

The average person doesn't often have the resources to hire an IT qualified person to deal with their one computer. Hell, many aren't even aware of "IT Departments" as a function of business enterprises. Well, OK, that's a bit "head in the sand" but it's more common than one might imagine.

Raising that comment about the three drives does offer a potential solution. The average home PC will support redundant technology. One form is called RAID. You can put a RAID controller card in your system, and write files concurrently to two or more hard drives. One of those hard drives can be installed using the "in machine" interface, but it can be mounted in a caddy bay that allows it's removal for offsite or archival purposes.

So, yes, there are systems even today that are more secure than the typical single PC user or home user is aware of.

Responsibility should be shared, and the industry should provide more information than it does. And consumers should really ask the hard questions. How easily can I lose this information and what must I do to insure against that.

I must tell you also, that I teach community ed classes on computers and software. I have a PC troubleshooting class. And the one thing that always occurs to me is that not enough people are taking those classes. On the other hand, I make my living mostly on those people who don't.

This discussion could go on and on. But who wants that. I just loaded up my new used G1 and need to go out and let the light hit some film.
 
kuzano: "the loss of image quality it is going to take to stay up with archiving work" means what, exactly? Are you claiming that the digital image files will suffer from some form of bit rot? Also, show us some image formats from ten years ago that can't be read today. With the millions (billions?) of GIFs and JPEGs around today I doubt that format will vanish overnight. The usual example is Apple's .PICT format, which people bandy around as a lost one, though my copy of Photoshop CS2 appears to open those files just fine.

As for RAID, do keep in mind that it's intended to protect against hardware failures. You do something (or your computer does something) to wipe out your files, your RAID array will faithfully ensure that the wiping out is painstakingly replicated across your 'redundant' array.

I just use a couple of inexpensive USB drives (I think I paid $60 for a 300 gig external USB drive last) that I back up to once a week. Chances of both my PC _and_ the two external drives failing are pretty slim.
 
chikne said:
Guys this is overkill. Most companies these days have some old servers that they can't even give away because no one wants them. A company gave me a compaq proliant a while ago, the thing had a RAID controller w/ array, tape drive, scsi etc...

If you like to spend so much money on hardware that will eventually cost peanuts go for it. The other way around is to use a basic PC, a pentium 2 or 3, buy a low cost scsi controller for it ($20 on ebay), and some large scsi hdd, no need for a RAID controller. Then you install a GNU/Linux distribution of your choice on this and setup a software RAID within the kernel and there you've got your automatic backup for less than $100. Software RAID is even more flexible than hardware RAID since you can mix different types of hard drives and use different levels of RAID without the need for a controller.

Look there: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID
Click to expand...

We're talking about people who don't even back-up their precious photos and you want them to go out and assemble a server from parts? Not very likely. If $750 is too much for you to protect a life time of digital photos, you deserve to loose them. Or stick to a shoe box of negatives in the basement. That will work until the next flood anyway.

/T
 
I commiserate with your experience. Please let us know what happened in the end? Did you recover any of your photos?

I want to tell you and the rest of the readers about a relatively cheap and easy backup solution, the Drobo. The Drobo allows you to insert up to 4 hard drives (any size) and mirrors the content across the drives. Basically a single drive can fail and the Drobo will automatically re-mirror the content across the remaining drives (telling you if there is not enough space or drives to do so). At any point in time you will have two copies of your data on two separate drives and the total storage space available to you for your files is approx. 60% of total hard drive space.

http://www.drobo.com/products_reviews.aspx

I don't sell these units or own shares in the company :) I just think it is a very easy to use system and, unlike RAID, does not required you to purchase identical drives (this can be a pain especially when drives obsolete/unavailable).
 
John,
I have a 1 Tb external hard drive that I connect to my mac. My Aperture and iPhoto libraries are on that drive. I also have other folders of photos on that drive as well.
There was a day or two last month when I thought I had lost everything. Like you, I only saw only an image of the drive on the desktop and it appeared empty. Naturally, I was very depressed. Then a couple of days later, it booted fine and everything was there.
I never figured out exactly what the problem was but my experience suggests that your drive might be just fine.
Reboot your computer and then plug the drive in again. If that doesn't work, try another mac.
I am willing to bet that all is well.
Keep the faith and don't give up.
Eric
 
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