Ok, would-be customs cheats...

The point of this thread is not about problems of corruption, which are widespread and not confined to one country. And declaring actual price of an item sold when shipping it out of the country is not about caring about someone's feelings. Its about following the law and doing the right thing as a citizen.

Those who feel otherwise can buy and sell with those who feel the same way and face any ill consequences that result.
 
ellisson said:
The point of this thread is not about problems of corruption, which are widespread and not confined to one country. And declaring actual price of an item sold when shipping it out of the country is not about caring about someone's feelings. Its about following the law and doing the right thing as a citizen.

Those who feel otherwise can buy and sell with those who feel the same way and face any ill consequences that result.
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Well said.
 
I'm in complete agreement with Dante.

A major peeve of mine is when RFF members - and members of other forums - post items for sale, saying they accept PayPal but wanting the money sent as a "gift" (in breech of PayPal contract). Otherwise, they want PayPal fees paid in addition.

This is blatantly dishonest and dishonorable.

If a seller accepts payment by PayPal, the stated price should be for PayPal Purchase. I don't care if discounts are offered for other forms of payment, but PayPal Gift shouldn't even be considered.

I'm not sure exactly how much PayPal purchase fees to the seller are, so I am tired of asking if the stated price is for PayPal Purchase and, if not, how much extra the seller requires.

There are a lot of dishonest practices that are largely accepted by society, but they are still dishonest despite said acceptance.

- Murray
 
Ko.Fe. said:
I'm not surpised you are with him and making fasle assumtion abouts me.

I'm paying 60$K in taxes from 100K$ annual income.
The problem here is not with paying of taxes as you could see from my numbers.

Healthcare in Ontario is on costant decline even after additional tax was imposed on us and services are consantly getting delisted with more taxes collected. The problem with healthcare is in the elected by idiots goverment which first name is corrumtion and second name is missppending.
Billions of dollars are stolen from Ontraio health care. Proven facts.
Same situation is with schools. We have portables at freshly build schools and falling appart old schools, dangeriossly falling apart. Yet, schoolboards organisations like in Toronto misspending millions of dollars ever year. Also proven facts.

But, yes, for you and him it is easy to blame Canadains for not paying taxes. You give no sh..t how we feel and what is local situation in terms of spending of collected taxes, it is all about how you feel. Very american.
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You need a better accountant...I'm one. The maximum you would pay the government on $100k is just over $30k..perhaps $6.5k more if the government takes back the OAS they give you (no you never paid for this). Even if you spent the entire balance on taxable items...HST maxes at $9k. If you are adding property taxes, you are comparing apples and oranges...you choose where you live and the costs follow.

I'm with Dante...I pay the tax/duty when it applies. If I have a problem with the level of tax or how the money is spent, I have a voice and a vote.
 
Ko.Fe. said:
Corruption and huge misspending at Toronto school boards is matter of proven facts, but many like you prefer not to know about it.
Shame on you. :mad:
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Really? Shame on me? I know all about it and I NEVER claimed there was no misspending, nor that there was not corruption. And yes, the voters make choices that you or I don't agree with. After all, Rob Ford was mayor for four years.

That's my final post on this thread within a thread.
 
photomoof said:
Try that with a New M9, sent to say Germany from the US, and see how that goes, you will not be pleased, or you might be lucky. That is how cheating (smuggling) works.
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I once shipped a brand new Monochrom to the Netherlands...after all, it looks just like an old timey film camera. Shipped in a previously used box, with bubble wrap and nothing else, it flew through customs.
 
mwooten said:
I understand what you're saying, but while you didn't exchange cash you did exchange something of value for the lens you received.
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Oh dear, here we go back again. I have just been told that we should be taxed based on price we paid , not based on value (which is subjective), but you go back and now say it's not based on price but value... Please check all my posts on this subject and the write comment...
And the let's think about the trade logic - when I buy an item for cash in the shop I pay VAT (or you in US - sales tax), but would you go back to the shop and say - look, it's wrong color, I want to exchange it for another, will you pay the tax the second time? The same logic for repaired abroad items should apply.
 
Coming from a VAT / customs annoying country -
My take is that the customs process delays delivery by up to 3 weeks, often involves arbitrary values that need to be contested, adding another week, + additional charges for storage, delivery (on top of postal charges), to which VAT is also added...
whereas if a low value is declared 95% of time it goes swiftly through without a hitch.
And the icing on the cake is that if, as I often do for more expensive gear, I have the item shipped to a US address and carry it in on a flight, there is no question that customs/VAT will not apply.

So while I report and pay taxes within the confines of the law, this is something else...
 
bmattock said:
This is not a rant, but an observation. I had to sell a lot of cameras a few years back. I stopped listing for outside the USA because buyers routinely demanded that I mark the item as a gift. It felt weird that I had to explain in my listing that I would not lie on the forms. Additionally, my disclaimer was routinely ignored anyway. I had too many long discussions with buyers who were angry with me even after my notice in the listing. I was typically threatened with negative feedback - for obeying the law!

Added to the 1-in-3 chance that the buyer would find some imaginary fault and demand a partial refund, I was glad when I no longer had to sell anything. I'm a good ebay buyer -since 1996. I don't care to sell. So many dishonest cheats out there. Sad really.
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Tell me about it! And since they criminally stopped allowing sellers to leave negative feedback (or even just a simple right to reply) against such unsubstantiated false 'problems' and BS negative feedback usually invented by such buyers who see your perfect 100% feedback score as an apt barrel to blackmail you over....oh God that annoys me. :bang:

I would hate to have to sell stuff on Ebay now, especially fragile and expensive individual items like cameras and glass. Ebay will just give instant refunds through Paypal to people on a whim and you can be left hanging. I think it works best for people who also have bricks and mortar stores and run it on top of that business and also when they move enough sales in terms of volume that they can afford to take hits from such unscrupulous people and still be profitable.

As to the tax question, it's also around 35% here and a good chance of being broken when you get it!
 
valdas said:
And the let's think about the trade logic - when I buy an item for cash in the shop I pay VAT (or you in US - sales tax), but would you go back to the shop I say - look, I't wrong color, I want to exchange it for another, will you pay the tax the second time? The same logic for repaired items abroad should apply.
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Actually, the same logic does apply. You don't have to pay VAT or tariffs twice if you exchange your item for another. Same with repairs, you only pay VAT on the work (repair bill).
 
I did ask the seller on one occasion to allow me to pay for the item in two PayPal transactions for the item when it was clear that the seller can't have the item insured for the full amount at a sensible price. The item was in a really nice condition, the price was relatively high and I thought the half of what I paid (I presented only one PayPal transaction as a proof of purchase to the customs office) was a fair share my country should take a bite at. I really hate that they think shipping should be taxed too (although I understand the logic behind it).

Yes, I feel a bit bad about it. Because I cheated in MY country.

I never did know that marking the item as gift is illegal in US for a person. You declare and pay taxes on the money you make with selling used items?

On the other hand, I've been offered the "as gift" sending many times for my WTB ads after I informed the seller that their price is not really that attractive when I add some 25% to it (I do always state that I'm from EU in the ad).
 
Dante_Stella said:
So for the people who are perpetually asking to undervalue items or declare them as gifts (this seems to me almost every other thing I try to sell on RFF) -

- Does it occur to you that if you ask sellers of items to do dishonest things that those sellers are going to regard you as dishonest?

- Do you realize that there are civil and criminal penalties in the U.S. for falsifying export forms? Or that a lot of us work in regulated industries where we are not going to put licenses in jeopardy (to any degree) for the sake of saving you a buck?

- What's your basic problem with following the law in your country or paying your taxes?

I regard paying taxes and duties to be a "cost of doing business" wherever you live. Those taxes and fees pay for things like national health care, comprehensive social welfare systems, and/or really good educational systems.

Dante
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You left out land mines! :rolleyes: :p
 
I envy the countries that have a much higher import tax free value than Germany. We have to pay import taxes (19%) as soon as the tax would exceed 5€ and we also have to pay taxes for the shipping costs. Say I buy a dead camera in hopes of fixing it for 10€ and the shipping is 15€ or even more (easy with USPS) then I have to pay import tax over the added amount.
The worst thing here about the import tax is (really if it would be just the few euros I have to pay I'd be fine) that 4 out of 5 times I get something shipped to me, DHL is to lazy to do the declaration for me (like they are supposed to) and I have to go to the ONE customs office in Berlin (over 3 million people here) and sit there for 2-3 hours (plus 1h traveling time)!
 
k__43 said:
I envy the countries that have a much higher import tax free value than Germany. We have to pay import taxes (19%) as soon as the tax would exceed 5€ and we also have to pay taxes for the shipping costs. Say I buy a dead camera in hopes of fixing it for 10€ and the shipping is 15€ or even more (easy with USPS) then I have to pay import tax over the added amount.
The worst thing here about the import tax is (really if it would be just the few euros I have to pay I'd be fine) that 4 out of 5 times I get something shipped to me, DHL is to lazy to do the declaration for me (like they are supposed to) and I have to go to the ONE customs office in Berlin (over 3 million people here) and sit there for 2-3 hours (plus 1h traveling time)!
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This this this, so much this :bang:

ok, it's 19% VAT... and it's + another 18% (or so) if the value exceeds 150€ (item + shipping)
You even have to pay the import taxes for (real) gifts, they want to see an invoice if someone from outside the EU wants to send you a gift :rolleyes:

Once a friend of mine bought some really small item from China, 15 cent, free shipping. He had to go to the customs office here in Berlin and wait for around 2 hours to pick it up... and to pay nothing :D
 
Ko.Fe. said:
So what.
If you don't want these requests simply specify your views and believes on taxes in the listing.
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Your belief in the rule of law is such that you believe that people who intend to follow it should notify you. That's rich! I have problems with the way money in my country is spent, too--a huge proportion of it is wasted on the way to killing people; you are concerned about the tiny amount wasted on helping people. You need to re-examine your life, I think.
 
I can't speak for everyone but importing stuff to Canada feels so random and arbitrary at times. I wouldn't ask someone to falsify customs forms but often it costs me less to ship something from Hong Kong or Japan or the UK, than from NY or California. Sometimes there's import duties, sometimes not and the rules aren't always clear on what or how things are taxed.

On the other hand I never had problems with things "disappearing" at customs or arriving damaged after inspection or anything.
 
Try shipping something to Italy or Brazil or Russia if you want to see it disappear or take weeks to be cleared.

BTW, despite comments to the contrary earlier in the thread, it's easy to insure items (by third party) for a different amount than the customs declaration (yes, even those marked 'gift.')

Capital gains? Anyone selling gear for profit will file a business return or schedule C on their personal tax return. This isn't capital gains.
 
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