kuzano
Veteran
I see a lot of people on the site using folding 120 cameras, both RF and Front Cell Focus.
I thought I would start a thread with tips on using folding 120 roll film cameras. Perhaps we can amass a data base of tips on how to get consistently good quality images with our folders. Used in a consistent and professional manner, many of these cameras will outshoot other Medium Format cameras built for the last 50 years.
I recently posted a method of "sighting in" your focus methods on these old folders, much the same as one takes a rifle to the gun range and sights it in before hunting season.
I will move that post over here, but today, I am going to start out with a common problem that persistently messes up focus on folding cameras.
When do you wind your film on to the next frame. Do you wind to the next frame before closing the camera for the day....
I suggest DON'T!!!
I discovered years ago that the best time to wind the camera to the next frame is in preparation of the shot, with the camera open. Let me tell you why.
Here's the scenario. Bob always winds his camera to the next frame and then closes the camera to another day. So, now Bob has a fresh, unexposed image on the film platen. Here's a big problem. When Bob opens his camera, the bellows draw creates a vacuum inside the camera, pulling the film away from the platen or forward of the film frame. Bob then focuses his camera either with the rangefinder, a separate rangefinder and/or set the focus distance on the front cell. The problem is that the film is sitting out in front of the proper film plan.... OOOPS! OOF image.
Never wind on your camera before closing it. Leave the last exposed frame on the platen when you close it. Then when you open the camera, the vacuum will displace an image already captured. Then when you "wind on" you will flatten the film against the platen as it moves into position for the next shot.
The "habit routine" then should properly be:
1) Open Camera
2) Wind On to next frame
3) Cock shutter
4) Frame and Focus
5) Shoot the frame.
There is another advantage. You will never be leaving the shutter mechanism cocked and under tension for long periods of time between camera usage.
So, My suggestion is NEVER "wind on" and then close the camera.
Other tips please????
I thought I would start a thread with tips on using folding 120 roll film cameras. Perhaps we can amass a data base of tips on how to get consistently good quality images with our folders. Used in a consistent and professional manner, many of these cameras will outshoot other Medium Format cameras built for the last 50 years.
I recently posted a method of "sighting in" your focus methods on these old folders, much the same as one takes a rifle to the gun range and sights it in before hunting season.
I will move that post over here, but today, I am going to start out with a common problem that persistently messes up focus on folding cameras.
When do you wind your film on to the next frame. Do you wind to the next frame before closing the camera for the day....
I suggest DON'T!!!
I discovered years ago that the best time to wind the camera to the next frame is in preparation of the shot, with the camera open. Let me tell you why.
Here's the scenario. Bob always winds his camera to the next frame and then closes the camera to another day. So, now Bob has a fresh, unexposed image on the film platen. Here's a big problem. When Bob opens his camera, the bellows draw creates a vacuum inside the camera, pulling the film away from the platen or forward of the film frame. Bob then focuses his camera either with the rangefinder, a separate rangefinder and/or set the focus distance on the front cell. The problem is that the film is sitting out in front of the proper film plan.... OOOPS! OOF image.
Never wind on your camera before closing it. Leave the last exposed frame on the platen when you close it. Then when you open the camera, the vacuum will displace an image already captured. Then when you "wind on" you will flatten the film against the platen as it moves into position for the next shot.
The "habit routine" then should properly be:
1) Open Camera
2) Wind On to next frame
3) Cock shutter
4) Frame and Focus
5) Shoot the frame.
There is another advantage. You will never be leaving the shutter mechanism cocked and under tension for long periods of time between camera usage.
So, My suggestion is NEVER "wind on" and then close the camera.
Other tips please????
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summar
Well-known
Excellent advice. It's important not to have a leaf shutter tensioned when you store it.
cicala
Established
In fact , a lot of time, I see the good scene I try to shoot but I forgot to charge the film ........so I loose the shoot .....
Captain Boar
Newbie
It may be useful for thoose who don't shoot dynamic scenes.
But I prefer to keep the camera always ready for shoot.
But I prefer to keep the camera always ready for shoot.
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
That is an issue on a few cameras with a design flaw that permits an air pressure build-up from behind on the film when expanding. But most makers seem to have been aware of the issue (the more so as film often was less rigid back then), and good folders tend to have some kind of air duct between back and bellows space to compensate that. But today there are plenty of old folders where these countermeasures have been covered with glue or fabric in a clumsy bellows repair or light sealing attempt - it is advisable to check for that in a CLA.
But winding early is not advisable even in cameras that have no such issue, as it increases dust issues - all old bellows shed some dust, and that is only relatively harmless when it happens after rather than before exposing.
kuzano
Veteran
Good advice for some, but
Good advice for some, but
I'm 68 years old.... can't remember what "Dynamic" means.
Good advice for some, but
I'm 68 years old.... can't remember what "Dynamic" means.
Ken Smith
Why yes Ma'am - it folds
Adjusting infinity - glasses on or off?
Adjusting infinity - glasses on or off?
Thought this was a silly question at first till I noticed just how much it affected adjusting focus at infinity on my folders.
I'm near sighted, meaning I have perfect vision at book reading distances, but need them to focus far off. I noticed while adjusting infinity on my Perkeo and Bessa II, that if I adjusted with them on, focus at infinity is different than with them off. And according to the distance scale - the distance was about 40 meters' different.
I'm using a piece of frosted glass placed at film plane to focus on and a loupe to check focus.
Since I'm near sighted, should I be doing this glasses off? I do need to take them off while reading since my glasses blur the letters at reading distance.
Adjusting infinity - glasses on or off?
Thought this was a silly question at first till I noticed just how much it affected adjusting focus at infinity on my folders.
I'm near sighted, meaning I have perfect vision at book reading distances, but need them to focus far off. I noticed while adjusting infinity on my Perkeo and Bessa II, that if I adjusted with them on, focus at infinity is different than with them off. And according to the distance scale - the distance was about 40 meters' different.
I'm using a piece of frosted glass placed at film plane to focus on and a loupe to check focus.
Since I'm near sighted, should I be doing this glasses off? I do need to take them off while reading since my glasses blur the letters at reading distance.
kuzano
Veteran
I would say that the point on which you are focusing is at reading distance... the distance to the ground portion of the ground glass. You are not actually looking at the subject distance, but the distance to the glass. Under that set of conditions, if you do NOT need your glasses to read a book, then I say no to your glasses on focusing on a ground glass. I suspect that also means that you do not use your glasses if you use a loupe on the ground glass.
Now another point (and some do not recognize this), the ground side of the GG should be toward the lens. That's the side you are actually seeing at reading distance and is the side exactly at the plane of the film.
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pinkarmy
Well-known
please keep this thread rolling!
kuzano
Veteran
Here is my earlier post on using GG viewing to check focus on folders
Here is my earlier post on using GG viewing to check focus on folders
This process works on any Medium Format camera, but I first used it for folding MF cameras, when I was heavily involved with them:
Here's how I check my rangefinders on Medium Format camera's. I use a ground glass method and a loupe. I have a ground glass from a view camera cut down to 6X9 (or whatever RF I am checking). I put the camera on a tripod with the back open. Then I tape the ground glass to the film plane. (Be sure to put the frosted side of the ground glass toward the lens) (Also, be sure to use the ribs or guides in the camera that the edges of the 120 film actually ride on). The thickness of the ground glass if used backwards can add to any OOF problems. The focusing surface of the GG must ride on the actual rails that the film rides on to get correct placement.
Using the loupe, I focus a "known distance" or "measured distance" subject the best I can on the ground glass. If I am not going to use 3 or more "known distances" at least measure off one subject that is in the 12-20 foot range if those distance are listed on the distance scale. (I also use a dark cloth, just like Large Format).
Once I have a focus point, I take hands off the lens focus ring, and look through the rangefinder. If the rangefinder is a bit off, I refocus using the rangefinder. Then I check again the ground glass. If the ground glass is off, the rangefinder is due for adjustment. I usually run this test on various subjects at different distances. I also note down the distance setting on the lens rings, with the one accurate to the ground glass as the correct distance.
Now, if my rangefinder is off, I can use the distance ring, or nudge the focus in the direction of inaccuracy between the rangefinder and the ground glass until I can find the amount of movement to get proper focus. The actual adjustment of the rangefinder may then be sent to a qualified tech, or you may find a hole for rangefinder adjustment in the top hood of the camera.
Now in case the camera is front cell focusing as opposed to rangefinder focus, you can still use this same method. However you are comparing the ground glass focus against the measured focus distances on the front cell ring. To do this, you will have to measure off about 4 of the distances that are listed on the front cell distance scale and then plant focus charts at those distances.
Then the testing can begin. This can be quite difficult, since you may have to loosen the front cell distance ring, reposition it on the front cell and tighten the adjustment screws. These screws are usually three or four very tiny small blade screws that must not be taken all the way out and use a proper screwdriver to avoid bunging up the screw slots. Loosen the tiny screws a little at a time each, and evenly, so that the distance ring will turn with little resistance on the front cell and not turn the front cell at the same time. After focus on the ground glass, and the distance ring settings mate to each other. Then tighten the distance ring. Then recheck all your subject distances... GG focus to coincide with distance ring setting to each of your properly measured subject distance.
Once you determine your findings, you may want to find a good CLA person on these cameras and have the corrections made by someone else.
Lastly, let me say that I also never shoot Medium Format Folders without securing them to the top of a tripod. If I expect to get a quality image near half the size of a large format negative, I would never handhold the camera, just as I would never handhold a 4X5 camera.
HERE ARE MY THOUGHTS ON HAND HELD SHOOTING!
There was a time when film was much more available in varying emulsions, and some of us actually thought the film and processing were reasonably priced. (Not all of us for sure)
During those times, we shot our cameras indiscriminately, paying little attention to keepers and film waste.
Those days are gone. The only tool you can use to raise your keeper rate and conserve both film and expense is to use the best tripod and head you can afford. If your wallet is thick and your ego dictates that you simply must hand hold to show your strength... go ahead.
Me,.... been using a tripod or a monopod for all my medium format and large format for many years now.
Oh Yeah... that's another Folder Tip. Put it on the list.
Here is my earlier post on using GG viewing to check focus on folders
This process works on any Medium Format camera, but I first used it for folding MF cameras, when I was heavily involved with them:
Here's how I check my rangefinders on Medium Format camera's. I use a ground glass method and a loupe. I have a ground glass from a view camera cut down to 6X9 (or whatever RF I am checking). I put the camera on a tripod with the back open. Then I tape the ground glass to the film plane. (Be sure to put the frosted side of the ground glass toward the lens) (Also, be sure to use the ribs or guides in the camera that the edges of the 120 film actually ride on). The thickness of the ground glass if used backwards can add to any OOF problems. The focusing surface of the GG must ride on the actual rails that the film rides on to get correct placement.
Using the loupe, I focus a "known distance" or "measured distance" subject the best I can on the ground glass. If I am not going to use 3 or more "known distances" at least measure off one subject that is in the 12-20 foot range if those distance are listed on the distance scale. (I also use a dark cloth, just like Large Format).
Once I have a focus point, I take hands off the lens focus ring, and look through the rangefinder. If the rangefinder is a bit off, I refocus using the rangefinder. Then I check again the ground glass. If the ground glass is off, the rangefinder is due for adjustment. I usually run this test on various subjects at different distances. I also note down the distance setting on the lens rings, with the one accurate to the ground glass as the correct distance.
Now, if my rangefinder is off, I can use the distance ring, or nudge the focus in the direction of inaccuracy between the rangefinder and the ground glass until I can find the amount of movement to get proper focus. The actual adjustment of the rangefinder may then be sent to a qualified tech, or you may find a hole for rangefinder adjustment in the top hood of the camera.
Now in case the camera is front cell focusing as opposed to rangefinder focus, you can still use this same method. However you are comparing the ground glass focus against the measured focus distances on the front cell ring. To do this, you will have to measure off about 4 of the distances that are listed on the front cell distance scale and then plant focus charts at those distances.
Then the testing can begin. This can be quite difficult, since you may have to loosen the front cell distance ring, reposition it on the front cell and tighten the adjustment screws. These screws are usually three or four very tiny small blade screws that must not be taken all the way out and use a proper screwdriver to avoid bunging up the screw slots. Loosen the tiny screws a little at a time each, and evenly, so that the distance ring will turn with little resistance on the front cell and not turn the front cell at the same time. After focus on the ground glass, and the distance ring settings mate to each other. Then tighten the distance ring. Then recheck all your subject distances... GG focus to coincide with distance ring setting to each of your properly measured subject distance.
Once you determine your findings, you may want to find a good CLA person on these cameras and have the corrections made by someone else.
Lastly, let me say that I also never shoot Medium Format Folders without securing them to the top of a tripod. If I expect to get a quality image near half the size of a large format negative, I would never handhold the camera, just as I would never handhold a 4X5 camera.
HERE ARE MY THOUGHTS ON HAND HELD SHOOTING!
There was a time when film was much more available in varying emulsions, and some of us actually thought the film and processing were reasonably priced. (Not all of us for sure)
During those times, we shot our cameras indiscriminately, paying little attention to keepers and film waste.
Those days are gone. The only tool you can use to raise your keeper rate and conserve both film and expense is to use the best tripod and head you can afford. If your wallet is thick and your ego dictates that you simply must hand hold to show your strength... go ahead.
Me,.... been using a tripod or a monopod for all my medium format and large format for many years now.
Oh Yeah... that's another Folder Tip. Put it on the list.
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oftheherd
Veteran
Good thread. I have not had problems with film being pulled out of flatness, nor with dust. But one should be alert for that problem and compensate.
Also, I haven't had a problem with hand held shots. I am old enough that I watch more at slower shutter speeds. I am not afraid to brace the camera or use a tripod if it ensures the shot. A little time spent getting the best shot sure beats time trying to post process it, digitally or the old fashioned way.
I have only one 120 RF, a Moskva. All my others are non-RF. I must admit, since I am pretty good at estimating distances, I really like them for their compactness and less weight. There are times when I am happy to have a 6x6 folder, and use as much of the real estate as possible, But I really like my Zeiss 6x9. Either can sit comfortably in the front pocket of two of my 35mm camera bags.
My tip is get a properly working one and use it. That extra real estate is really a pleasure to use. If you never go above 8x10, less so, but above that it begins to show, even with an old folder.
Thanks for the thread kuzano.
RichL
Well-known
Someone on this forum suggested advancing the film till the number was just passed the red window before closing up shop. The reasoning behind that was then you never had to wonder if the frame showing was shot or not. I've used that method ever since and totally agree with it. In reference to the out of focus problem of advancing before closing the cover. I did a test both ways using a supplementary lens and critical focusing with a ground glass using both a Zeiss 631/16 (6x6) and an early Kodak Duo 620 (6x4.5) and found absolutely no difference between the two. I should probably add that when opening one of my cameras my finger is always on the door rather than have it snap into position. Never having had a 6x7 or 6x9 I can't speak to their flatness.
charjohncarter
Veteran
Personally, I like my Balda Hapo 66e the best of my folders, because it has an uncoupled rangefinder. But if you won't like that get a Agfa Isolette, I know truly a pedestrian cam, but it has double exposure prevention, as does the Balda. I got a Medis Rangefinder for less that $10 on Ebay and have added that to my Agfas. These simple but easy Agfas are great. Here are two images from a Balda and an Isolette II:
and I couldn't help but show this one Balda with fill flash:
and I couldn't help but show this one Balda with fill flash:
kuzano
Veteran
Your post feeds into another tip.....Thank You!
Your post feeds into another tip.....Thank You!
Yes, do not be impressed by the fact that your camera SNAPS smartly into the open position. Don't exert a twist to encourage such action. Hold the door while it's moving into the open position and then check the locking of the struts in place with your fingers. Snapping the camera into the open position can damage or misalign struts and the front standard. Also, too often when the front standard snaps into place, the struts kick back and remain slightly unlocked.
Good point Rich L.
Your other point is probably well taken. I don't think the vacuum effect will be as big an issue on the smaller 645 and 66, as on the large 6X9. Also, as Sevo mentioned the quality of the camera you mention may include some sort of relief hole for the bellows draw effect. A 6X9 negative would likely have more vacuum internally.
Your post feeds into another tip.....Thank You!
Yes, do not be impressed by the fact that your camera SNAPS smartly into the open position. Don't exert a twist to encourage such action. Hold the door while it's moving into the open position and then check the locking of the struts in place with your fingers. Snapping the camera into the open position can damage or misalign struts and the front standard. Also, too often when the front standard snaps into place, the struts kick back and remain slightly unlocked.
Good point Rich L.
Your other point is probably well taken. I don't think the vacuum effect will be as big an issue on the smaller 645 and 66, as on the large 6X9. Also, as Sevo mentioned the quality of the camera you mention may include some sort of relief hole for the bellows draw effect. A 6X9 negative would likely have more vacuum internally.
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citizen99
Well-known
I'm with RichL on winding-on until the number has only just passed away from the red window. (With my ageing memory, it's a trade-off between the visual cue that the frame has been shot, on the one hand, and the risk of forgetting how many frames are left and not being immediately ready for the next, on the other. )
For setting the focus, I like to stretch a piece of 3M 'Magic' tape, taut and non-wrinkled, between the surfaces that define the plane of the film emulsion. This is tape 'frosted-translucent' and shows the image nicely for examination with a loupe. The tape peels away nicely without leaving a sticky deposit.
)For setting the focus, I like to stretch a piece of 3M 'Magic' tape, taut and non-wrinkled, between the surfaces that define the plane of the film emulsion. This is tape 'frosted-translucent' and shows the image nicely for examination with a loupe. The tape peels away nicely without leaving a sticky deposit.
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kuzano
Veteran
I'm with RichL on winding-on until the number has only just passed away from the red window. (With my ageing memory, it's a trade-off between the visual cue that the frame has been shot, on the one hand, and the risk of forgetting how many frames are left and not being immediately ready for the next, on the other.
For setting the focus, I like to stretch a piece of 3M 'Magic' tape, taut and non-wrinkled, between the surfaces that define the plane of the film emulsion. This is tape 'frosted-translucent' and shows the image nicely for examination with a loupe. The tape peels away nicely without leaving a sticky deposit.
I've seen the tip on the 3M "magic" tape in lieu of frosted ground glass. The 3M tape has a frosted aspect to it, and would be thin, whereby as long as taping it directly on the slide surfaces where the film transports across the opening, it would be more likely on the exact plane of transport.
I have also used "Tupperware". Find a tupperware container in the semi opaque with a large enough surface to cut a flat 6X9. In this case the tupperware has a thickness to it, so one needs to again apply the frosted side to the surfaces for the film transport. This is sturdy enough to allow use of a loupe.
Other plastic containers found at kitchen departments of Big Box stores, or department stores will also work, as long as semi-opaque and a flat surface big enough for 6X9.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Hm.
I might give my end-of-1940s Franka Solida I a go after all. At least it's small and pocketable, and the shots from a recently-sold Ansco folder in the classifieds were really sharp. Maybe my Franka can match them...?
I might give my end-of-1940s Franka Solida I a go after all. At least it's small and pocketable, and the shots from a recently-sold Ansco folder in the classifieds were really sharp. Maybe my Franka can match them...?
Thomas78
Well-known
After finishing a roll of film, wind the spool several times after the backing paper is completly on the spool before opening the camera back. Only when the paper is wound tight on the spool it can prevent the light from hiting the negative.
Today was the secound time (in my life) that I took out one roll of film where the backing paper was so loose, that I fear I lost some images.
Today was the secound time (in my life) that I took out one roll of film where the backing paper was so loose, that I fear I lost some images.
KoNickon
Nick Merritt
Not a lot to add to what has been mentioned here, but generally speaking you do need to get a little ritual down:
1. Be consistent in winding the film -- either wind immediately after shooting, or immediately before, or partially, as suggested. But be sure to do it all the time. (I'm speaking here of the cameras that don't have a wind lock or double exposure prevention.)
2. Be careful opening, as discussed. Carefully ensure the struts have clicked into place and the lens/shutter assembly is locked in solidly.
3. Remember always to charge the shutter before pressing the release. Some cameras will lock you out of that frame, and so you have to wind on (and miss an exposure).
4. Keep the camera folded up when not in use; it's the best way to keep the bellows material fresh.
I guess that's all I've got.
1. Be consistent in winding the film -- either wind immediately after shooting, or immediately before, or partially, as suggested. But be sure to do it all the time. (I'm speaking here of the cameras that don't have a wind lock or double exposure prevention.)
2. Be careful opening, as discussed. Carefully ensure the struts have clicked into place and the lens/shutter assembly is locked in solidly.
3. Remember always to charge the shutter before pressing the release. Some cameras will lock you out of that frame, and so you have to wind on (and miss an exposure).
4. Keep the camera folded up when not in use; it's the best way to keep the bellows material fresh.
I guess that's all I've got.
graywolf
Well-known
A trick with the uncoupled RF camera is to pre-set your focus distance on the rangefinder, set the camera ready to shoot, then hit the shutter button when the rangefinder shows your subject in focus.
That is just the opposite of the usual way of using a rangefinder. Depending on the movement of the subject, or the camera, instead of changing the focus. Sort of a go/no-go set up.
That is just the opposite of the usual way of using a rangefinder. Depending on the movement of the subject, or the camera, instead of changing the focus. Sort of a go/no-go set up.