abumac
Well-known
What could you recommend me? Thank you.
Old Horizont or Horizon 202
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PKR
Veteran
I too am interested in this. I've heard that the build quality of the Kremlin cameras is not good. I think the 202 is the cheapest. Maybe some of the others are better. A widelux F7 is around $1,000. Maybe worth the money.
A fixed lens Pano is likely better, as there are fewer moving parts. But then, they are much more expensive.
p.
A fixed lens Pano is likely better, as there are fewer moving parts. But then, they are much more expensive.
p.
Frank Petronio
Well-known
I had one of the old Horizants, the angular one with the bottom handle. It worked well most of the time but it would randomly eat film. But it wouldn't kill it, just shake the shredded film out and try again ;-) It made mostly even exposures and I thought it was decent for $150.
I just tried a Horizon Kompact, which is related to the 202 I think. It was plastic but well made, on par with a inexpensive Japanese P&S from the 80s. It made nice even exposures and was smooth to load. The only thing that killed it for me is that it is fixed focus at f/8 yet they still set the focus point to near infinity, so anything closer than say, 40' looked soft to me.
If you want to do it right, I'd look for a Noblex over any of them, and a 6x12 120 model at that ;-) But if the top of the line Horizon, that does focus, came up as a good deal I'd consider it strongly.
A fixed lens pano like a Xpan or 6x17 would be nice but hardly the same, the swinging lens is very different and to me, advantageous.
I just tried a Horizon Kompact, which is related to the 202 I think. It was plastic but well made, on par with a inexpensive Japanese P&S from the 80s. It made nice even exposures and was smooth to load. The only thing that killed it for me is that it is fixed focus at f/8 yet they still set the focus point to near infinity, so anything closer than say, 40' looked soft to me.
If you want to do it right, I'd look for a Noblex over any of them, and a 6x12 120 model at that ;-) But if the top of the line Horizon, that does focus, came up as a good deal I'd consider it strongly.
A fixed lens pano like a Xpan or 6x17 would be nice but hardly the same, the swinging lens is very different and to me, advantageous.
PKR
Veteran
Here's the manufacture's web site:
http://www.kremlinoptics.com/catalog/panoramic_cameras.html
They make a number of cameras. Some are described as "professional" and cost more. I expect the build quality is higher. Lomo and others are re-branding these cameras and in some cases, increasing the price dramatically.
p.
lomo branding
http://usa.shop.lomography.com/cameras/panoramic-cameras/horizon-perfekt
http://www.kremlinoptics.com/catalog/item/horizon_s3_u_500_panoramic_camera.html
http://www.kremlinoptics.com/catalog/panoramic_cameras.html
They make a number of cameras. Some are described as "professional" and cost more. I expect the build quality is higher. Lomo and others are re-branding these cameras and in some cases, increasing the price dramatically.
p.
lomo branding
http://usa.shop.lomography.com/cameras/panoramic-cameras/horizon-perfekt
http://www.kremlinoptics.com/catalog/item/horizon_s3_u_500_panoramic_camera.html
Last edited:
Beemermark
Veteran
I have the 202, bought in the '90s. Don't use it much but I never had a problem with it. Decent lens, decent range of speeds and comes with B&W filters.
Mister E
Well-known
The wideluxes are as fickle a beast as you can make. I returned mine and replaced it with an Xpan.
spanish_inquisition
Spanish Inquisition
Leaning toward a Horizon 202
Leaning toward a Horizon 202
I have shot with Widelux F7, Horizon 203, 202 and the older, Horizont version. Widelux was nice but it needed maintenance every ~6 months or so. Horizon 203 is a bit quieter than the 202 and the Horizont. I felt that the lens on the 203 didn't get sharp until f11/f16. Many people claim that the 202 is in fact sharper than the 203 (due to some assembly details). Widelux F7 gave the sharpest pictures at large apertures. That makes sense because it is pre-focused on ~5m (instead of infinity) and I shot a lot of people shots, so it appeared sharper than the Horizon cameras.
Horizon 202 is so cheap now that it's a crime not to try one (you can always return it within the 14-day window). Yes, 202 has the habit of chewing film sometimes, but it is because people don't load it correctly. You have to make sure there is no slack in the film. That's when the sprockets gets ripped apart by the 202. Typical Russian design, what can I say.
Leaning toward a Horizon 202
I have shot with Widelux F7, Horizon 203, 202 and the older, Horizont version. Widelux was nice but it needed maintenance every ~6 months or so. Horizon 203 is a bit quieter than the 202 and the Horizont. I felt that the lens on the 203 didn't get sharp until f11/f16. Many people claim that the 202 is in fact sharper than the 203 (due to some assembly details). Widelux F7 gave the sharpest pictures at large apertures. That makes sense because it is pre-focused on ~5m (instead of infinity) and I shot a lot of people shots, so it appeared sharper than the Horizon cameras.
Horizon 202 is so cheap now that it's a crime not to try one (you can always return it within the 14-day window). Yes, 202 has the habit of chewing film sometimes, but it is because people don't load it correctly. You have to make sure there is no slack in the film. That's when the sprockets gets ripped apart by the 202. Typical Russian design, what can I say.
abumac
Well-known
Thanx to all. I have bought an old metallic Horizont. It should arrive in a five or six days. I let you know ... One question. I have found different informations on the web about settings and shutter ... to cock and to set .. or to set and to cock????
Requin
Established
The older Horizonts can get tricky - if used for a longer time the felt / foam gasket for the turret gets worn out and you can get a diffuse incidence of light. This causes vertical stripes on the film and you have to get your horizon repaired.
These stripes can also be caused by reflections on the turret edge.
Advantage of the old Horizont over the new Horizon is, you can use a 6x6 cm enlarger, for a widelux negative you need a 6x7 cm enlarger (more expensive). Widelux is more prone to the vertical stripe problem because of the delicate mechanics of the shutter. And last but not least: Widelux is more expensive than Horizon.
If you use a Horizon- or Widelux-Kamera you'll have to keep in mind some cautions any way. (Incidence of light, film transport problems, banding problems, loading film and so on).
Shutter setting on the new Horizon 202 with cocked shutter only.
The pre Horizon 202 was the Horizont (with t) which was built since 1967 with a loose view finder. Beware not to lose the finder, you won't find a new one.
Good luck with you Horizont!
These stripes can also be caused by reflections on the turret edge.
Advantage of the old Horizont over the new Horizon is, you can use a 6x6 cm enlarger, for a widelux negative you need a 6x7 cm enlarger (more expensive). Widelux is more prone to the vertical stripe problem because of the delicate mechanics of the shutter. And last but not least: Widelux is more expensive than Horizon.
If you use a Horizon- or Widelux-Kamera you'll have to keep in mind some cautions any way. (Incidence of light, film transport problems, banding problems, loading film and so on).
Shutter setting on the new Horizon 202 with cocked shutter only.
The pre Horizon 202 was the Horizont (with t) which was built since 1967 with a loose view finder. Beware not to lose the finder, you won't find a new one.
Good luck with you Horizont!
abumac
Well-known
And on the old one?
K
kjoebek
Guest
Pictures from a old Horizont. Film: Rollie retro 100
And here is the cam.
More pictures: http://www.phosee.dk/pictures_mine?start=100
And here is the cam.
More pictures: http://www.phosee.dk/pictures_mine?start=100
Florian1234
it's just hide and seek
Isn't there also a "problem" with the 202 and the focussing fixed on 10m or so? I saw a page somewhere on the net for hacking the filmplane with tape to focus on 2-3m.
abumac
Well-known
Please, please answer my question: How is the right order on the old Horizont. First cocking the shutter and then sett the aperture and time or setting first aperture and time and the cocking the shutter?
K
kjoebek
Guest
First set then cock 🙂
Requin
Established
The manual for the Horizon 202 says: Shutter speed and aperture should be set only with the shutter cocked.
Because the Horizon 202 is very similar in construction to the Horizont I assume the shutter works the same way. But I can't give any guarantee.
Because the Horizon 202 is very similar in construction to the Horizont I assume the shutter works the same way. But I can't give any guarantee.
abumac
Well-known
abumac
Well-known
I've just got mine. It is an old metallic one.
BSchall
Established
On the Horizon 202 the adjustment levers for shutter speed and aperture are inside the camera body until you cock the shutter. Then the levers swing out where you can access them. No way to set them without the shutter being cocked. Don't know anything about the older Horizont.
