rbiemer
Unabashed Amateur
Re-visiting one of my earliest posts here at RFf...
22 years ago I gave my parents a print. Lab enlarged and professionally matted and framed.
Until recently this was hanging in an upstairs hallway out of direct sunlight.
The folks downsized and moved and early this year they gave it back to me.
I also recently moved and am just starting to hang all the various photos, prints, and paintings. And seeing them anew.
The photo was taken on either APX 25 and a red filter, or, was shot on Techpan rated at 100. I can't recall which now. And I no longer have the negative--too many moves over the years plus, at the time, I didn't care much about the negatives once I'd made or gotten a print. (Why, yes. Yes I was an idiot then!)
Parts of the print have turned sort of brown/copper colored. I don't think the print was toned but is just a silver based print.
Any thing I can do at this late date to fix this print? I could copy this print and replace it but it's probably the earliest "serious" print of mine and it's the print that I gave to the parents so I'd rather not replace it.
Missouri Trees 1995 small by rbiemer, on Flickr
Mo Trees cropped small by rbiemer, on Flickr
22 years ago I gave my parents a print. Lab enlarged and professionally matted and framed.
Until recently this was hanging in an upstairs hallway out of direct sunlight.
The folks downsized and moved and early this year they gave it back to me.
I also recently moved and am just starting to hang all the various photos, prints, and paintings. And seeing them anew.
The photo was taken on either APX 25 and a red filter, or, was shot on Techpan rated at 100. I can't recall which now. And I no longer have the negative--too many moves over the years plus, at the time, I didn't care much about the negatives once I'd made or gotten a print. (Why, yes. Yes I was an idiot then!)
Parts of the print have turned sort of brown/copper colored. I don't think the print was toned but is just a silver based print.
Any thing I can do at this late date to fix this print? I could copy this print and replace it but it's probably the earliest "serious" print of mine and it's the print that I gave to the parents so I'd rather not replace it.
Missouri Trees 1995 small by rbiemer, on FlickrMo Trees cropped small by rbiemer, on Flickr
plummerl
Well-known
This looks very much like a print I made (in the 70's) for my grandparents. It was on AGFA RC and developed the same coppery degradation after quite a few years. I put it down to RC or print processing error on my part.
Steve M.
Veteran
Unfortunately, this is what happens often with RC paper after that length of time, which is why I only print on fiber. It also could be inadequate fixing. Hard to tell w/o seeing the actual print. If it were me I would have it scanned, fixed in post, and printed on an inkjet printer w/ high quality paper (which is not truly archival like fiber photographic paper, but is as good as you are going to get). I know of no way to stabilize what is going on.
aizan
Veteran
you'll want to read "an update on the stability of b+w resin coated papers" by susan s. wagner (pp.60-66):
http://resources.conservation-us.org/pmgtopics/1999-volume-eight/08_09_Wagner.pdf
looks like it's some kind of light-induced deterioration that could have been prevented with toning.
ctein's book "digital restoration from start to finish" explains how to fix it (i don't think there's anything you can do for the original print, aside from storing it in the dark to halt deterioration):
https://books.google.com/books?id=G...AEIQjAD#v=onepage&q=rc print bronzing&f=false
http://resources.conservation-us.org/pmgtopics/1999-volume-eight/08_09_Wagner.pdf
looks like it's some kind of light-induced deterioration that could have been prevented with toning.
ctein's book "digital restoration from start to finish" explains how to fix it (i don't think there's anything you can do for the original print, aside from storing it in the dark to halt deterioration):
https://books.google.com/books?id=G...AEIQjAD#v=onepage&q=rc print bronzing&f=false
joeswe
Well-known
You may find this helpful
A Guide to Fiber-Base Gelatin Silver Print Condition and Deterioration, by Gawain Weaver
Some of the information contained in the guide also applies to RC prints
A Guide to Fiber-Base Gelatin Silver Print Condition and Deterioration, by Gawain Weaver
Some of the information contained in the guide also applies to RC prints
x-ray
Veteran
Is the print actually attached to the mounting board?
Is it spray mounted to the board or drymounted with tissue?
Most likely it's several things in play here. This is due to any or all of the following. The mounting board is not archival or it contains a lot of acid from manufacturing. The adhesive if physically mounted to the board wasn't archival such as spray mount. The print itself was inadequately fixed and or washed. Any or all of these could be the problem.
Light doesn't degrade silver gelatin prints like this. It might yellow the mount but degradation isn't a major issue.
RC papers of that era aren't as stable as fiber paper. I have some RC work prints that were for my advertising clients that didn't need to last and I probably just rinsed them off for a minute after fixing, dried them and picked the best for my client and saved a print for myself. These prints are seriously fading now and turning brown from the residual acid in the print.
I would first suggest making the best scan you can incase this fails then make an archival digital print on acid free rag like Canson Platine using a pigment based printer.
Next I'd try to salvage the original. I'd contact the George Eastman house in Rochester. I did a huge archival project involving 50-75 year old nitrate based circuit camera negs and the archavist at the Eastman House was extremely helpful. I believe they've published a lot of research on archival preservation of old photographs. Your problem is quite common.
If I remember correctly there are sprays to put on the mount and print to neutralize thatcacid. The archavist can tell you exactly what to do and may have a pamphlet they've published on the subject.
Most likely it can be stopped. I have an original vintage Lewis Hine print of the Russian steel workers for Carnegie Steel. I bought it from a very reputable gallery that preserved the print. Archival methods weren't known in the early 1900's and degridation started which is very common. Because it's an original and very rare, the museum had an archavist neutralize the acid and stabilize the print. In the 20 years I've owned it there's been no further change.
Give the Eastman House a call. They're business is preserving art and are very helpful.
Good luck!
Is it spray mounted to the board or drymounted with tissue?
Most likely it's several things in play here. This is due to any or all of the following. The mounting board is not archival or it contains a lot of acid from manufacturing. The adhesive if physically mounted to the board wasn't archival such as spray mount. The print itself was inadequately fixed and or washed. Any or all of these could be the problem.
Light doesn't degrade silver gelatin prints like this. It might yellow the mount but degradation isn't a major issue.
RC papers of that era aren't as stable as fiber paper. I have some RC work prints that were for my advertising clients that didn't need to last and I probably just rinsed them off for a minute after fixing, dried them and picked the best for my client and saved a print for myself. These prints are seriously fading now and turning brown from the residual acid in the print.
I would first suggest making the best scan you can incase this fails then make an archival digital print on acid free rag like Canson Platine using a pigment based printer.
Next I'd try to salvage the original. I'd contact the George Eastman house in Rochester. I did a huge archival project involving 50-75 year old nitrate based circuit camera negs and the archavist at the Eastman House was extremely helpful. I believe they've published a lot of research on archival preservation of old photographs. Your problem is quite common.
If I remember correctly there are sprays to put on the mount and print to neutralize thatcacid. The archavist can tell you exactly what to do and may have a pamphlet they've published on the subject.
Most likely it can be stopped. I have an original vintage Lewis Hine print of the Russian steel workers for Carnegie Steel. I bought it from a very reputable gallery that preserved the print. Archival methods weren't known in the early 1900's and degridation started which is very common. Because it's an original and very rare, the museum had an archavist neutralize the acid and stabilize the print. In the 20 years I've owned it there's been no further change.
Give the Eastman House a call. They're business is preserving art and are very helpful.
Good luck!
Bill Clark
Veteran
Do you still have the negative?
You could make a digital photo of the print and correct in Photoshop then print by a lab.
You could make a digital photo of the print and correct in Photoshop then print by a lab.
rbiemer
Unabashed Amateur
Thank you for the suggestions, folks!
I have been reluctant to open the frame and really don't want to replace the print, but it seems I'll have to if I want to fix this.
Xray, I will reach out to the people at the Eastman House--I sometimes forget that museums do a lot more than just house collections of stuff.
I am going to see if there is anyplace local who can scan this print for me as it is too big for my scanner.
The good news about this is that, realistically, there is no reason not to replace this--it is my own photo and only about two of us in my family have any concern about it as an object. And, I have plenty of other tangible reminders of my relationships with the parents.
Rob
I have been reluctant to open the frame and really don't want to replace the print, but it seems I'll have to if I want to fix this.
Xray, I will reach out to the people at the Eastman House--I sometimes forget that museums do a lot more than just house collections of stuff.
I am going to see if there is anyplace local who can scan this print for me as it is too big for my scanner.
The good news about this is that, realistically, there is no reason not to replace this--it is my own photo and only about two of us in my family have any concern about it as an object. And, I have plenty of other tangible reminders of my relationships with the parents.
Rob
rbiemer
Unabashed Amateur
Bill,
There is a astonishingly small chance that the negative is inside the matte--I do remember doing that once or twice--but I think I'd got over that particularly silly idea by then. And, I don't have any of my few negatives or prints from then.
Right now, my only digital camera is my phone so I will end up having the print scanned, I think.
Rob
rbiemer
Unabashed Amateur
I uploaded the two photos I have in this thread to my flickr account, left them as "public" and just was checking my email and had a notification that some one favorited one of the photos.
NOT the upload which at least has the entire photograph but they,
apparently, liked the crop I made to show the degradation.
Gee whiz, maybe I'll just start randomly cropping a 20 or 25 percent piece of all my photos and just put those on line...
Rob
NOT the upload which at least has the entire photograph but they,
apparently, liked the crop I made to show the degradation.
Gee whiz, maybe I'll just start randomly cropping a 20 or 25 percent piece of all my photos and just put those on line...
Rob
pgk
Well-known
I have copied largish prints in two sections and stitched them in photoshop then adjusted and had them digitally printed on archival paper with surprisingly good results. Trick is to get everything squared up and even lighting then its easy enough.