Timmyjoe
Veteran
I'm seeing more and more folks using the DK-17M. I may look into one of those, might help with the manual focus lenses on my D700.
Best,
-Tim
Best,
-Tim
One year later, the DF: any comment?
- Thread starter robert blu
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x-ray
Veteran
The only downside of the magnifier would be for people wearing glasses or have a big nose like me ;<) glasses could make it difficult to see the entire frame.
Timmyjoe
Veteran
No glasses when I'm shooting thankfully.
Best,
-Tim
Best,
-Tim
ray*j*gun
Veteran
Off point but on my D7000 the KatzEye split screen has no affect on the auto-focus operation. Also the green dot matches the split optical perfectly.
jarski
Veteran
or at least slower than usual pace of model updates. D4 sensor should give good longevity for the Df though.
Addy101
Well-known
You sum it up nicely: "it's just not the same" and if it isn't for you, well, it isn't...
Paul Jenkin
Well-known
Long term Nikon user (film and digital). Liked the idea, initially; saw the real thing but (though okay) it left me a bit cold. I was hoing for no screen, smaller - a bit like a digital camera in a proper film-style body. Minimalist. Doubt it will ever happen.
Highway 61
Revisited
I have to admit - as a long time Nikon bodies and lenses owner (and lover) I was so disappointed with the Df, that I can't help still thinking loud of what it could have been (which Nikon would have had no difficulties to do) : something incredible and unique on the DSLR worldwide market.
I don't think I'm the only one having this in mind.
Please tell me whether I tried to discourage folks to chim in that thread and express themselves. I bet you can't. I, for one, never adressed the Df owners personally or whatever.
While those people (who don't seem to be that numerous) look like they can't stand any critical comment about the camera. Howzabout asking people calling other DSLRs "tubs of lard" to be more polite, too ?
I don't either recommend or don't recommend Robert the purchase of a Df - he's an adult and an experienced photographer and can know what to do with his money, and he will very quickly know everything that is under the Df hood.
Yet, he deserves something better that "I have bought the Df and I love it" which seems to be the only thing we keep hearing.
If those people could also stop adressing others personally instead of trying to explain why the Df is really a better choice than, say, a second hand D610 costing 50% of what a new Df is priced at, this would be interesting.
By the way I am in the process of testing my Ai and Ai-S Nikkor lenses in front of the FF 24MP sensor of the D610 and D750, and contraringly to what I was thinking, they perform extremely well. Seems that I am getting more resolution than with the D700 12MP or Df 16MP sensors even with lenses made in the 1970s. Which tells that those lenses can match the 24MP FF sensor very well.
So - one of the so-thought advantages of the Df versus the D750 and D610 (less demanding sensor with MF Nikkors) might be questionable.
About the DK-17M : I have used it extensively and, yes, it helps. But not enough to a point that it allows you to see things snap into focus when you manually focus. It magnifies, but doesn't change the focusing screen pattern, so for critical focus situations, the limits will stay where they are, that is, within the focusing screen design.
On the Df, because of no eyepiece shutter, it won't be secured, so re-tighten it very firmly from time to time or have it stay in place with a tiny dab of threadlock fluid when you install it, or you will lose it sooner or later.
Best too.
ChrisLivsey
Veteran
No it's not questionable, the sensor is less demanding, it's the lenses that are better than you thought.
When you buy a decent lens, you have a lens that will be useful for many years. When you buy a higher resolution body all the lenses you own get better. (There will be an exception to that with some zoom lenses.)
This is the "do lenses out resolve the sensor" argument. Which gets very muddy very quickly with diffraction and what exactly are you going to measure. Even worse is what happens when you use a less good lens on a high res sensor then down sample it.
BTW I picked up a Df in my dealer, a plastic chrome variant (there you see what's coming now), I didn't like it physically. No doubt the output is excellent, within it's design limitations, but I shoot for pleasure and that camera was obviously not going to give me any.
robert blu
quiet photographer
I didn't imagine to get 10 pages of comments when i started this thread with what I believed to be a simple question. Again I thanks all the people who gave a contribution, sometimes a little bit controversial but this is part of the game.
Of course if I put the question it was because I had, I still have doubts about this camera, there are positive and negative factors.
At this stage "my problem" can be related to the following points:
what kind of photography I do, or I would like to do with this camera. Studio work, reportage, portraits or...This is something I have to answer myself, I'm the only one who can answer it 🙂
Will the camera be my "main" camera or just a camera to use beside my film cameras? In the second case not desiring to have a too heavy kit size and weight are important .
Is the ergonomic of the DF what I'm looking for in a camera? Again I have to find it out personally, the problem is that where I live there is no option to rent it (i had already done if possible) the only option is to test for a short time in a shop than buy or not. And reselling it due to the poor second hand market means waste part of the money, which I do not like so much. As consequence when I buy a camera (DF or not) it is bought and at least for a few years I have to live with it!
Manual focus or autofocus are both viable for me, generally speaking. What is more important is to have an aperture ring on the lens, even if I know aperture can easily be controlled by wheels etc. Most of time I shoot in Aperture Priority.
Image Quality: I have no doubt it is up to my expectation, the many times mentioned low light possibility are interesting for my way to photograph.
Now, next question to the satisfied users of the DF could be what kind of photography are you doing with this camera, but maybe better to open a different thread about it!
As already said I'll visit one of the few shops with the df available bringing a couple of my Nikon lenses in one of the next weeks and try to understand better this camera.
Thanks for the comments to everybody
robert
PS: summarizing there are a few + and a few - in my check list!
Of course if I put the question it was because I had, I still have doubts about this camera, there are positive and negative factors.
At this stage "my problem" can be related to the following points:
what kind of photography I do, or I would like to do with this camera. Studio work, reportage, portraits or...This is something I have to answer myself, I'm the only one who can answer it 🙂
Will the camera be my "main" camera or just a camera to use beside my film cameras? In the second case not desiring to have a too heavy kit size and weight are important .
Is the ergonomic of the DF what I'm looking for in a camera? Again I have to find it out personally, the problem is that where I live there is no option to rent it (i had already done if possible) the only option is to test for a short time in a shop than buy or not. And reselling it due to the poor second hand market means waste part of the money, which I do not like so much. As consequence when I buy a camera (DF or not) it is bought and at least for a few years I have to live with it!
Manual focus or autofocus are both viable for me, generally speaking. What is more important is to have an aperture ring on the lens, even if I know aperture can easily be controlled by wheels etc. Most of time I shoot in Aperture Priority.
Image Quality: I have no doubt it is up to my expectation, the many times mentioned low light possibility are interesting for my way to photograph.
Now, next question to the satisfied users of the DF could be what kind of photography are you doing with this camera, but maybe better to open a different thread about it!
As already said I'll visit one of the few shops with the df available bringing a couple of my Nikon lenses in one of the next weeks and try to understand better this camera.
Thanks for the comments to everybody
robert
PS: summarizing there are a few + and a few - in my check list!
Highway 61
Revisited
Yes and those are very good news because I am owning sparkling manual Nikkors from 20mm to 180mm and I love them all, so having to stop to use them for color, or having to sell them to get G lenses instead would be a pita.
Best to you and to Robert.
x-ray
Veteran
I use my Df for commercial photography and pleasure. I shoot product, architecture and ads involving people. The ad photography could be classified as environmental portraits I guess. For pleasure shooting it could be about anything.
As to the eyepiece magnifier, I e had mine on for around 8 months and I've never had to tighten it.
As to the eyepiece magnifier, I e had mine on for around 8 months and I've never had to tighten it.
dasuess
Nikon Freak
Chris - Thanks for your honest assessment. If the Df doesn't work for someone, then it just doesn't work.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
You have a better description?
FWIW, many late film SLRs (especially Canon) were tubs of lard too. Why were they so bloated?
Cheers,
R.
JHP
Well-known
Well, my new focusing screen arrived. Being the impatient person that I am, I rushed to install it. I failed. I scratched the new screen up to high heaven and made it pretty damn ugly/unusable. It is quite difficult to install these screens I must say, and my job is an electronics technician for Apple, so you'd think this would be a breeze.
Using it in its scratched state however, was ok. It came with a circle shape that didn't quite fit the autofocus point lines on the DF. It also was quite difficult to nail focus with it. Even though it showed the split screen lining up, I was often just out of focus, missing the eyes etc. This may have been my botched installation however.
I noticed no real-world difference in brightness between the screens, if you are crazy about this you might find a difference but I couldn't.
I am going to buy another one at some point and give it another go.
I feel pretty silly.
Using it in its scratched state however, was ok. It came with a circle shape that didn't quite fit the autofocus point lines on the DF. It also was quite difficult to nail focus with it. Even though it showed the split screen lining up, I was often just out of focus, missing the eyes etc. This may have been my botched installation however.
I noticed no real-world difference in brightness between the screens, if you are crazy about this you might find a difference but I couldn't.
I am going to buy another one at some point and give it another go.
I feel pretty silly.
Highway 61
Revisited
Bad news, yet you didn't scratch the original screen so the situation is still under control, the remedy is either to re-install the original screen or ordering another one.
What may make those screens deceptive at first glance is the camera viewfinder magnification. The actual difference will be seen by using a split image screen and the DK-17M 1.2x magnifying lupe altogether. Then, you will have something almost close to the Nikon F2/F3 VFs (at an additional $200 cost ontop an $2500 camera - go figure).
What screen had you ordered ? The Nikon F6 'A' or the Canon EOS 1D 'Ec-B' ? From what you wrote ("circle shape") I guess it's the Canon, so the circle around the split image isn't centered within the focusing overlay grid ?
Using the DK-17M lupe and leaving the original screen in place, then trying to use the electronic rangefinder, may be the best option afterall. But then, let's somehow forget about close-up portraits with f/1.8 or f/2.5 short telephoto MF Nikkors. Or - let's take the habit of taking a lot of pictures when doing a close-up portrait session, so that there are some probabilities for getting at least one of them focused on the subject's eyes. In my experience with either the D700, the Df or the D610 (all having the same finders even if the D700 one displays 95% of the final frame while the other two are close to 100%), this is about one out of seven. Also, while we liked taking such photos at f/2.8 or f/4 with our film Nikon SLRs, with a FF DSLR it's safer to use f/5.6 or even f/8 in the same situations. If you aren't a bokeh buff, it will work for you.
RichC
Well-known
It's actually very easy once you're familiar - the DF is the same as my D800E. It shouldn't take more than about 15 minutes, and no force or awkwardness is needed - if something won't fit or drop into place, you're doing it wrong or have something upside down! I think I could remove the screen in 5 minutes now. (And, yes, doing it the first time was scary - not now though!) Don't replace the screen until you've read the instructions carefully and examined the camera. If you mess up your standard screen, you'll be glad to hear that Nikon will sell you a new one cheaply (in Europe anyway).
Internet chatter about misfocusing with replacement screens and having to use shims to correct it may be offputting, but I think this may well be overstated: my replacement screen focused accurately with the standard shims. And if you do need to mess about with shims, the new screen is supplied with extra shims: all you need to do is try out combinations of shims until the focus is accurate - straightforward, if tedious.
The instructions below may seem daunting, but don't be put off - it's far, far quicker than it seems!
- Set up a work area in a dust-free location: for example, a bathroom after running a shower. Getting dust inside the viewfinder is annoying as you will need to take out the screen to get rid off it! Always seeing a speck of dirt is really irritating!
- Set out everything you will need - the idea is to be able to work fast and efficiently to avoid dust settling in the viewfinder. To minimise dust entering the camera, place a body cap on the camera when not working directly on it.
- Use the finger condoms that came with your new screen - you don't want skin grease on your screens!
- Hold the camera upside down, and examine the camera (the lens opening is at the top):
The screen is held in place by a thin retaining wire that runs around under the edges of the screen, is hinged at the back and locks under a little plastic tab at the centre front (red arrow). The screen has a little orienting tab along the front edge (yellow arrow), to ensure the screen cannot be fitted wrongly. It goes to the left of the locking tab (looking at the camera the right way up). Under the screen are very thin brass shims (like thin picture frames) around the edge of the screen: these shims adjust the focus. - With the camera still upside down, hook your thumbnail over the wire, which has a very small "hump" at the front edge of the screen just to the left of the centre locking tab. Push upwards towards the prism and towards the back of the camera, in the plane of the screen. The wire will release from under the plastic locking tab. It may stay in place against the underside of the screen. Coax it gently away from the screen, so it can hinge upwards (i.e. towards the mirror). If you use the "unhooking tool" that came with your screen, be careful: you're more likely to scratch the screen than if using your thumbnail.
- You now need to remove the focusing screen. Do not prise it out - you may scratch it. Instead, gently rotate the camera, to allow the screen to partially fall out via gravity, so you can get a hold of it with your fingers. The screen will either drop down and rest in the cradle of the wire retainer, but may need a little coaxing. Be careful: if you don't restrain the screen, it and its shims will fall onto the mirror - Not A Good Thing! If the shims come out too, don't worry: just turn the camera upside down, and put them back.
- With the camera upside down again, it's time to put the replacement screen in. If the shim(s) have dropped down to rest in the wire cradle, slightly reposition the camera to make them fall "up" against the underside of the display screen: tapping the camera may help to seat them. Put the new screen in and press the wire back in place with your thumb. It will click under its locking tab - if that's not happening, something is wrong: make sure that the shims and screen are seated correctly, and that the screen is the right way round.
- Look through the viewfinder to check for dust and dirt. If there is any, sigh loudly, remove the screen and use an air puffer and possibly a brush to remove it. Repeat until there are no specks.
willie_901
Veteran
I know exactly how you feel.
Years ago I totally messed up a perfectly good D200 spilt-screen attempting to install it myself. Back then one had to try different shims as well. I wish I had just sent the camera to Katz-Eye and let them do it. I realize Katz-Eye might not offer an option for the newer cameras.
I admire anyone who can do this job themselves and end up with a perfect result (no scratches or other damage) Kudos to you!
ray*j*gun
Veteran
I installed a Katzeye on my D7000 and I'm a clumsy guy and it went well. I now have a D610 but Katzeye doesnt make a screen for that model. I have found though that using the green dot with the stock screen has worked pretty well.
Timmyjoe
Veteran
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