One year later, the DF: any comment?

[Monz]

Thanks Phil, good to know.

Monz, are those screens only sold in Japan? Is there a place in the States where you can buy those?

Best,
-Tim

Hi Tim,
I think the company is based in Taiwan but they ship internationally and take Paypal.

http://www.focusingscreen.com/conditions.php

I don't know if they have a US outlet... may be worth contacting them via their contact page.
I have not bought anything from them and have no connection.

Cheers.

--
Monz

 

[Timmyjoe]

You won't see a huge difference between the D700 and the Df sensors, both for resolution and noise at high ISOs.

Couldn't disagree with you more on this. I shoot a D4 (same sensor as Df) and a D700 all day long for work, and the difference between the sensors, especially in low light, is dramatic. I can get useable shots with my D4 up to ISO 12800, but my D700 get's dodgy above 3200. Also, 12MP vs 16MP does not seem like much until you need to crop, and my clients need 4000x3000 pixel images. I lose clarity with the D700 quickly when I need to crop, whereas the D4 holds up alot better.

Big difference in the sensors, especially in low light.

Best,
-Tim

 

[Highway 61]

Couldn't disagree with you more on this. I shoot a D4 (same sensor as Df) and a D700 all day long for work, and the difference between the sensors, especially in low light, is dramatic. I can get useable shots with my D4 up to ISO 12800, but my D700 get's dodgy above 3200. Also, 12MP vs 16MP does not seem like much until you need to crop, and my clients need 4000x3000 pixel images. I lose clarity with the D700 quickly when I need to crop, whereas the D4 holds up alot better.

Big difference in the sensors, especially in low light.

Best,
-Tim

This is good to know. My experience is biased in that I never shoot above ISO 1600 (the five to six digits ISO world is a terra incognita for me), and never crop. I don't like pictures taken in low light which look like the scenery was lit by an armada of movie projectors, and pictures which aren't properly framed upon shooting are thrown away - an old film shooter habit.

In that respect the 95% VF covering of the D700 kept annoying me. The gap between what it displays and what you get on the pic is tiny, but it's here and in close-up portraiture or macro work this can be a bug in your coffee sometimes.

 

[Huss]

Most of your Ai-S lenses won't perform very well in front of the D750 24MP FX sensor (resolution issues, vignetting, purple fringing, CAs).

For those lenses designed during the film era, the 12MP (D3/D700) or 16MP (D4/Df) FX sensors are the perfect match.

Then there is that darn manual focusing problem...

Reviews on fredmiranda.com from pro users with 36mp D800s beg to differ.

And yes, there is that darn manual focus problem. But that is the same with all these cameras. Which is one of the main reasons I was so disappointed with the DF. Nikon implied that it was specifically designed to use with old MF glass. But that was pure marketing babble as there was no difference in the focussing screens/system than their other products. Apart from the AF not being as good as their top line products.

Of course you can take great shots with the DF. You can with pretty much any camera, the limitation is in the user not the product. But.. there is not one thing on the DF that stands out in execution. And that is the sad thing, because it could have been incredible.

 

[Timmyjoe]

My experience is biased in that I never shoot above ISO 1600 (the five to six digits ISO world is a terra incognita for me), and never crop.

Not sure how that statement lines up with your previous statement.

You won't see a huge difference between the D700 and the Df sensors, both for resolution and noise at high ISOs.

What are you referring to when you say, "high ISOs".

 

[Highway 61]

What are you referring to when you say, "high ISOs".

3200 at the very most. Which, I know, will sound dumb to many people daily shooting at 25600.

And yes, there is that darn manual focus problem. But that is the same with all these cameras. Which is one of the main reasons I was so disappointed with the DF. Nikon implied that it was specifically designed to use with old MF glass. But that was pure marketing babble as there was no difference in the focussing screens/system than their other products. Apart from the AF not being as good as their top line products.

Of course you can take great shots with the DF. You can with pretty much any camera, the limitation is in the user not the product. But.. there is not one thing on the DF that stands out in execution. And that is the sad thing, because it could have been incredible.

My feelings exactly. There is even something sad in all that story.

 

[mfunnell]

Why are folks willing to pay more than double for a Leica M240 or M9 and not $3k for the Df.

Well in my case it's pretty simple: I have a lot of M and LTM lenses and I like rangefinder cameras for some kinds of things. I don't have a lot of investment in Nikon gear, using Canon for my DSLRs and having used OM gear back in my days using manual focus film SLRs. I was interested in the Df when it came out, in a general sense, but had no real desire to buy into a whole new (to me) system. I've been very happy with my M240 (and very grateful that an unusual circumstance allowed me to afford one).

Not that I think there's anything wrong with the Df. I'm sure it's a great camera for some people. Just not for me in my circumstances.

...Mike

 

[willie_901]

Huss sums up how I feel about Nikon... disappointment.

..."But that is the same with all these cameras. Which is one of the main reasons I was so disappointed with the DF. Nikon implied that it was specifically designed to use with old MF glass. But that was pure marketing babble as there was no difference in the focussing screens/system than their other products."

This is not ignoring X-Ray's and others' satisfaction with MF. Nikon's only supports one AF mode. Even though one can improvise with a modified third-party focusing screen as described earlier, this is not acceptable to me. I feel Nikon should acknowledge the needs of people who appreciate MF.

 

[Roger Hicks]

(1) Could have been a better camera. True.

(2) Name a better camera for manual focus Nikon SLR lenses. Difficult.

Cheers,

R.

 

[dasuess]

(1) Could have been a better camera. True.

(2) Name a better camera for manual focus Nikon SLR lenses. Difficult.

Agree with Roger... While the Df does not have everything we wanted and maybe more than we wanted in some ways, for folks like me who have been shooting Nikon F or F2, etc for many years - it's the best FF Nikon digital out there today.

I'm shooting the hell out of my Df while waiting for the Df2 - which has to be perfect - right?

 

[emraphoto]

Anybody here that uses the Df professionally? I see a lot of 'coulda beens, shoulda beens' w/ regards to ergonomics, but is it paying anyones bills and if so, how good is it at that?

My partner is also a professional photographer, like working 5 days a week with amarketing and communications office. She has just put the wheels in motion for an upgrade to the DF from a D3/D700/D3 kit. Maybe a month or so. I'll pass in the experience.

I always getting the hand me downs 🙂 I would be interested in a DF but I have a D200 all geared up to shoot AI lenses and it is still pumping out the hits.

 

[emraphoto]

And I got the D200 for free from you know where!

 

[raid]

This store has it for sale for $2099.

http://americacameras.com/index.php?id_product=492&controller=product&id_lang=1&gmc_currency=1

 

[x-ray]

Because I love using my Leica and I really did not like using the DF that I rented. I'd pay double for a camera that I'd love to use than save money on one that I do not want to use.
You feel the other way, which is cool as we all have choices.

I'd buy a D750 to use my AIS lenses, not the DF.
And its sensor gives spectacular images. Here is a real world review:

http://www.rossharvey.com/reviews/nikon-d750-review

I love the Df but wouldn't pay double the price. As you say we have choices which is good.

 

[JHP]

I love mine, I use it for pleasure and for work. The design can be annoying, like having to unmount to access battery and SD cards while on a tripod, and the auto focus is nothing like the D3S I used to use in low light. Otherwise it's great, I love the size and the controls let me move from my Leica's to it without changing my thinking.

Oh how I wish they put the D750 auto focus in it. That would have made it worth the large price tag.

 

[dasuess]

I love mine, I use it for pleasure and for work. The design can be annoying, like having to unmount to access battery and SD cards while on a tripod, and the auto focus is nothing like the D3S I used to use in low light. Otherwise it's great, I love the size and the controls let me move from my Leica's to it without changing my thinking.

Oh how I wish they put the D750 auto focus in it. That would have made it worth the large price tag.

The above might explain why some love the Df and others hate it. I love it and really have no complaints, but I only use MF Nikkors. I don't use a tripod that much and I have yet to drain the battery on a single shoot.

It all boils down to how you use it. As with most things in this life, YMMV.

 

[Highway 61]

(2) Name a better camera for manual focus Nikon SLR lenses. Difficult.

Not difficult. A D700 with a Katzeye split image focusing screen in it.

The Df is in no way designed for manual focus Nikon SLR lenses. This is sad but true. Marketing sayings only. Same viewfinder and same focusing screen as in the D600/610.

Yes it's the only Nikon DSLR to have a flippable AI coupler tab for metering with non-AI manual focus Nikon SLR lenses, but this is not what makes manual focusing accurate.

 

[acidnaut]

I wish I had rented one instead of buying it outright. Picture quality is excellent but I bought it because I was expecting a digital FM. It's not quite there due to its dimensions but hopefully nikon smartens up and does it right next time. How sweet that will be. The Df is a good camera but it's no digital FM.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Not difficult. A D700 with a Katzeye split image focusing screen in it.

The Df is in no way designed for manual focus Nikon SLR lenses. This is sad but true. Marketing sayings only. Same viewfinder and same focusing screen as in the D600/610.

Yes it's the only Nikon DSLR to have a flippable AI coupler tab for metering with non-AI manual focus Nikon SLR lenses, but this is not what makes manual focusing accurate.

Using MF lenses isn't just about focusing. It's about . . . um . . . using MF lenses. Of course you can bodge an MF lens onto any current Nikon tub of lard, but if you want to use the lenses (and that includes AI coupling) on something faintly resembling a real camera, then I stick by what I said.

Cheers,

R.

 

[x-ray]

Leicas digital M's are a far cry from the film M. It too is thicker and bulkier just like the Df and guess what you have to remove it from a tripod to replace the battery and exchange SD cards.