Only Bargains selling ?

[srtiwari]

Whereas prices of M-Mount lenses have gone up substantially, there appears to be a general slowdown in sales on RFF ads. Many wonderful items, which at these prices would have been snapped up quickly in the past, now seem to languish forever.

OTOH, any reasonable pricing on Leica or Zeiss glass seems invite a flood of responses, and quick sales. (This, I guess, is based on the assumption that these high prices will seem bargains later) Between these, and the 'also rans', there doesn't appear to be any middle ground.

Wonder if this is the general view, or only mine, since some of my items haven't sold...yet.

 

[Vickko]

Yep, in my experience, selling on RFF requires the right price. Same for LUG.

I am usually able to sell on ebay, for a slightly higher end price than what I post on RFF.

...Vick

 

[FrankS]

RFF folks are pretty price savvy. Is that why my OM4 is not selling?

 

[rxmd]

Maybe you're right in that there is some kind of market stratification going on. Maybe, due to the crisis, this is turning into a luxury goods market for which CV lenses don't really qualify unless they're unique, like the 35/f1.2 etc.

However, I don't know about your items, but, for example, a lens for $6500 plus eventual import duties is not something you buy just like that. And in the other ad with the CV lenses they don't really strike me as particular bargains; they are OK, but nothing that jumps at me.

For me any classifieds sale here needs to overcome a trust barrier; after all I'm buying from someone I don't know and will likely never see, and I have no buyer protection at all. So there are basically three reasons why I might buy something in the classifieds:

1. It's a very good offer, or
2. It's available locally (happened sometimes while I lived in Berlin, now not so often), or
3. It's something unique and oddball that I can get only here from someone I trust, such as an Industar-61 in Nikon rangefinder mount.

In this case (other than I'm not specifically looking for any of the items you're selling) the ads qualify for neither of the three, so I'm not a potential buyer. If, for example, the Skopar 25/4 was $200 (which I've already seen around here) instead of $400 it'd qualify for option 1 above, but then you may not want to sell it at that price.

Likewise, whenever I offered something here I tried to give very good prices. I once sold a Bessa here for 99 EUR. It helps that I don't do this for money.

 

[ferider]

RFF folks are pretty price savvy. Is that why my OM4 is not selling?

Cannt expect anybody to pay more on RFF than at KEH, Frank (EX OM4 = US 165).

A good example why some stuff doesn't go here .... people take ebay prices as a reference, which today are often higher than in reputable stores (KEH/Adorama/B+H) with a no-questions-asked return policy. Not sure why people pay more on ebay ...

Roland.

 

[FrankS]

Truth hurts. Ouch. Price dropped. Ouch.

 

[ferider]

Sorry.

............

 

[Tim Gray]

I've heard all the arguments for rising used prices, but frankly, the used Leica prices are just getting offensive. I saw a version 2 50 Summilux priced at $2200 the other day on some site. That's nuts. I just don't think that some of this stuff is worth what the sellers are asking, which is why they aren't selling. Especially when you can get a new C-Sonnar for half that price.

Another example - Hexanon M 50's. By all accounts, they are great, fantastic lenses. When I first got into Leicas about 5 years ago, you could get one for $300-400. It was a highly recommended alternative to a Summicron, since modern copies sold for 2-3 times the price. Now, I see them priced in the $700 range. I'm sure it's a great lens, but for that price, I'd rather just buy a new Zeiss Planar.

 

[maddoc]

Most items offered here for sale are usually also offered at GetDPI forum and quite often sell there but seller forget to mark it sold here. Also, I think the RF market has cooled down quite a bit and people think twice before buying anything that might be difficult to resell later.

 

[splitimageview]

How can a price be offensive? 😉 If it's too high, don't buy. Or offer less...

 

[redisburning]

well I think since used film stuff has gotten so concentrated as far as "stores" go that they are probably putting a lot of upward pressure on prices.

they bump up the prices a little bit, then ebay prices follow because someone is still getting a good "deal", and then forums follow I guess.

price growth has vastly beaten inflation, the growth in strength of the yen (as much as the Japanese are trying to stop it). I could see the growth of the yuan vs the dollar as being capable of doing this, however most discussion Ive seen suggests the Chinese want new stuff.

Personally I'm going to watching for a Christmas slide. It's the only way I'm going to be able to afford Leica stuff =/

 

[Tim Gray]

How can a price be offensive? 😉 If it's too high, don't buy. Or offer less...

I don't buy them. But when I see this kind of ad: "50 Summilux ASPH. New. I don't have it yet, it's on it's way from the dealer. I bought two, one for me and one for my buddy, but he doesn't want it. $4900." I get a little bit offended 🙂 The way I read those kinds of ads, the seller is just lying to you (I'm sure he really bought one for his buddy...), and he's ruining the chance for the prospective buyer to even get a warrantee, all so he can make a couple bucks. I find that kind of disrespectful to buyers.

Each board has it's own buy & sell culture. I prefer it here on RFF to getdpi, which seems to be keen on maximizing profits, though honestly, largeformatphotography.info and APUG have the friendliest classifieds in my mind. Unfortunately for RFF in terms of prices, some of the clientele of getdpi bleeds over here.

Edit - oh yeah, and the people who are flipping products like that also write crap like "Must use paypal gift option. Shipping extra. $4900 net to me". If they can't be bothered to work out the math for themselves and just build it into their price, instead of using the gift option, which is as I understand it, both against Paypals rules AND voids any buyer protection, I can't be bothered to think that they actually give two craps about a buyer. Just make it $5100, free shipping.

 

[splitimageview]

I don't understand why that would be offensive. Even a little bit. 🙂 If it's disrespectful to you, then just move along. No one is forcing you to buy. New Leica lenses are in high demand, it's just the free market at work.

If someone posted an ad saying "I went to a garage sale and found this M4 and an M2, but I only need one body, so I'm selling the M2 here for $800" would that offend you?

Maybe he bought the M2 for $5. 😉

 

[srtiwari]

Maybe you're right in that there is some kind of market stratification going on. Maybe, due to the crisis, this is turning into a luxury goods market for which CV lenses don't really qualify unless they're unique, like the 35/f1.2 etc.

However, I don't know about your items, but, for example, a lens for $6500 plus eventual import duties is not something you buy just like that. And in the other ad with the CV lenses they don't really strike me as particular bargains; they are OK, but nothing that jumps at me.


In this case (other than I'm not specifically looking for any of the items you're selling) the ads qualify for neither of the three, so I'm not a potential buyer. If, for example, the Skopar 25/4 was $200 (which I've already seen around here) instead of $400 it'd qualify for option 1 above, but then you may not want to sell it at that price...

I agree with much of what you say.
I managed to sell the Summilux 35 ASPH II at the asking price; barely made up for losses from selling other stuff.

The CV 25/4 sold on EBay for $265

I, like many others,sell on EBay, not so much for better prices, but more for the likelihood that the item will sell. I would have been happy to try and negotiate in some instances, but didn't get too many offers.

 

[Tim Gray]

Nope, not at all. Lucky person to find a good bargain. Then again, M2's don't have warrantees any more and any 'new' equivalent is going to be a lot more than that.

 

[splitimageview]

I don't buy them. But when I see this kind of ad: "50 Summilux ASPH. New. I don't have it yet, it's on it's way from the dealer. I bought two, one for me and one for my buddy, but he doesn't want it. $4900." I get a little bit offended 🙂 The way I read those kinds of ads, the seller is just lying to you (I'm sure he really bought one for his buddy...), and he's ruining the chance for the prospective buyer to even get a warrantee, all so he can make a couple bucks. I find that kind of disrespectful to buyers.

Each board has it's own buy & sell culture. I prefer it here on RFF to getdpi, which seems to be keen on maximizing profits, though honestly, largeformatphotography.info and APUG have the friendliest classifieds in my mind. Unfortunately for RFF in terms of prices, some of the clientele of getdpi bleeds over here.

Edit - oh yeah, and the people who are flipping products like that also write crap like "Must use paypal gift option. Shipping extra. $4900 net to me". If they can't be bothered to work out the math for themselves and just build it into their price, instead of using the gift option, which is as I understand it, both against Paypals rules AND voids any buyer protection, I can't be bothered to think that they actually give two craps about a buyer. Just make it $5100, free shipping.

If those things bug you just move on.

Often buyers already know the sellers, and have no problem sending paypal gift as there is already trust behind the sale.

Also, some buyers care more about getting a lens, than having a warranty. Leica lenses very very rarely have warranty issues anyway.

Bottom line: some buyers have differing priorities than others.

 

[Tim Gray]

I, like many others,sell on EBay, not so much for better prices, but more for the likelihood that the item will sell. I would have been happy to try and negotiate in some instances, but didn't get too many offers.

Not telling you or others how to price your items, but I've found that when I need to sell something in a reasonably quick fashion, I go to the photo boards and/or ebay, find the going prices for the item, and price it at about 90% of that. If it's an item that can still be bought new, 80-85% of the new retail price seems to make items move too.

The way I look at it, if I had the item for any length of time, I basically got to use it for for a very small fee. Also, if shaving 5% off of my asking price lets me sell it quicker on a forum as opposed to ebay, it's worth it with all the ebay fees and relative lack of seller protection.

 

[Tim Gray]

If those things bug you just move on.

Often buyers already know the sellers, and have no problem sending paypal gift as there is already trust behind the sale.

Also, some buyers care more about getting a lens, than having a warranty. Leica lenses very very rarely have warranty issues anyway.

Bottom line: some buyers have differing priorities than others.

I already said I move on and don't buy. It's just an attitude in the RF community I haven't noticed up until the last year or so. And personally I find it a shame.

I've had issues with 3 of the 4 Leica lenses I've have. While I've also had issues with some of my Canon lenses that had to be repaired out of warrantee, Leica repair without a warrantee is not only a good deal more expensive, but considerably slower than Canon.

 

[splitimageview]

I'd agree, it's recent, but that's because it's market-driven.

Leica lenses were languishing on shelves prior to 9/9/9. Now, they never even hit the shelves before they go out the door...

Unfortunate about your 75% rate of warranty issues. That's extremely unusual in my experience.

 

[dave lackey]

Maybe a lot of folks are broke?