Opportunity Knocks...

bmattock

bmattock

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Note: Long post, my apologies!

In an effort to catalog the remaining B&W manufacturers from around the globe, I have been trying to ferret out manufacturers who are 'hidden' from the Western world in the sense that they are nearly unknown in the Americas or Europe and more or less totally unavailable. This has been slow going and difficult - I'm doing a lot of detective work and tracing down vague references on the 'net, and in some cases, getting no responses from companies that I have managed to track down. I'm doing this because for one thing, I find it interesting, and for another, I figure the time is coming when we'll all be searching for B&W film manufacturers, and it is better to try to establish communication now rather than later.

Everyone knows about Kodak, Fujifilm, and Ilford B&W products. As we know, Agfa Photo recently discontinued production of B&W film as part of their demise. In Europe, we have Maco, Bergger, Tura, Forte, Foma, Rollei, Wephota, Classic Pan and Efke (Adox), all more-or-less readily available - although Rollei, Maco, Bergger, Wephota, Classic Pan, and Tura are reported to be relabeled products that are actually made by others. Classic Pan is the biggest mystery - no one seems to actually know who makes it or where it comes from. All I have been able to find are guesses. It is available for sale, though.

In addition to those, I have seen, on occasion, other films that are not common by any means, but which appear to be available to some extent in the Americas and Europe. These would be Lucky (China), Tasma (Russia), Mitsubishi (US-Japan), and Konica Minolta Pan (Japan). The only ones of these that I have not managed to actually lay my hands on have been Mitsubishi and Tasma - they remain elusive. I have read that Mitsubishi is a repackager of Konica products, though.

And then there are the mythical film manufacturers. These give evidence of their continued existance, but I cannot contact them, even when I can find their alleged websites. They seem determined not to actually sell any of their products, or at least not to foreigners - they won't return any of my emails. These would be Svema (Ukraine) and Era (China).

Well, I had a stroke of good luck recently. I found "Shantou Gongyuan Photo Sensitive Materials Co." at URL:

http://www.chinastera.com

They seem to be the "Era" film company I have heard about. I wrote to them and received a prompt reply. They wish to do business.

So...

I'm willing to pursue this, and import a small quantity of B&W film for evaluation purposes. However, it may be that I'm the only one who has any interest in this. If there is no interest, then I'll not pursue it. If there is interest, we can figure out a project by which we can each get our hands on a couple of rolls and evaluate this film to see what it may (or may not) be good for.

I found Era through this US News & World Report story from 1998, which purports that Kodak actually owns Era, Lucky, and all the other Chinese film manufacturers:

All the Film in China - US News and World Report Story

Most important is this bit:

So Kodak now controls the entire Chinese photo film industry with the sole exception of Lucky Film Corp., a relatively minor player. Kodak has purchased majority control of three film companies in Xiamen, Shantou, and Wuxi and has persuaded Prime Minister Zhu to shut down three others. Two of those entities once had supplier relationships with Fuji, which have now been severed.
Click to expand...

As was noted in later news stories, Kodak did indeed purchase Lucky - so now they own it all, if this is correct.

I was able to find the names of these 'three film companies' on a Canadian government website. They are: Wuxi Almy Photo Sensitive Chemicals Co., Xiamen Fuda Photo Sensitive Materials Co., and Shantou Gongyuan Photo Sensitive Materials Co. Shantou is "Era" as it turns out.

So, you could say that this "Era" Chinese film is Kodak, but only in the sense that Kodak appears to own a controlling interest in them and has invested money in upgrading their capabilities. I do not know how good Era's film is, or what it's characteristics are, but I propose to find out.

Anyone interested in trying this out?

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

FYI - Here are some of the websites. Hard to find these in a single place, so I thought I'd post them. Feel free to use them or add to them - or correct any mistakes I might have made.

Kodak (USA)
Ilford (UK)
FujiFilm (Japan)
Maco (Germany)
Tura (Germany)
Rollei (Germany)
Wephota (Germany)
Bergger (France & USA)
Efke (Croatia)
Forte (Hungary)
Foma Bohemia (Czech Republic)
Lucky Film Company (China)
Tasma (Tartarstan, Russia)
Mitsubishi Imaging (Japan & USA)
Konica Minolta B&W Pan (Japan)

Svema JSC - No Website - Ukraine, part of Sumy Oblast. No contact.
Classic Pan - No Website - Total Mystery
 
love to try something different as well, let us know if you go thru with this.


Todd
 
Would you see if they have 4x5 sheet film? I would be very interested in evaluating that.

William
 
wlewisiii said:
Would you see if they have 4x5 sheet film? I would be very interested in evaluating that.

William
Click to expand...

William, I believe they do, at least it looks that way on their website. I'm not sure what they require in the way of a minimum order, but I'll see what I can find out!

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

PS - Here is what looks like a link to the 4x5 film:

http://www.chinastera.com/English/ERA1/English_product4.htm
 
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Bill, nice work...

BTW, I'm not interested in trying out the film you mention, since I live in Croatia, about 100 miles from Fotokemika factory 🙂

Just to get some of your facts straight:

I know that Fotokemika (Efke film manufacturer) actually makes some of the film that gets branded for others - namely, I'm 100% sure it makes "Mitsubishi" film (I have a couple of rolls at home, purchased from Fotokemika), and I know it makes at least some film that gets branded as Maco. If you're really interested, I could ask Fotokemika to provide more info (unless it's confidential info, I'm sure I can find out more).

Basically, what it boils down to is that, apart from well-known Ilford and Agfa (although Agfa seems to be finished with B&W!), Foma (Czech Republic), Fotokemika (Croatia) and a couple of Chinese companies (Lucky, etc.) are actually the last of the Mohickans.

I think Rollei film is also outsourced - the same probably goes for Wephota. I'm not sure about the others.

Denis
 
Looks that way to me. Appears to be a fairly basic ISO100 film in 20 sheet boxes. So, yeah, depending on how much we'd need to get, I'd be game. Maybe some roll too, but the 4x5 is more interesting at this point.

William

bmattock said:
William, I believe they do, at least it looks that way on their website. I'm not sure what they require in the way of a minimum order, but I'll see what I can find out!

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

PS - Here is what looks like a link to the 4x5 film:

http://www.chinastera.com/English/ERA1/English_product4.htm
Click to expand...
 
denishr said:
Bill, nice work...

BTW, I'm not interested in trying out the film you mention, since I live in Croatia, about 100 miles from Fotokemika factory 🙂

Just to get some of your facts straight:

I know that Fotokemika (Efke film manufacturer) actually makes some of the film that gets branded for others - namely, I'm 100% sure it makes "Mitsubishi" film (I have a couple of rolls at home, purchased from Fotokemika), and I know it makes at least some film that gets branded as Maco. If you're really interested, I could ask Fotokemika to provide more info (unless it's confidential info, I'm sure I can find out more).

Basically, what it boils down to is that, apart from well-known Ilford and Agfa (although Agfa seems to be finished with B&W!), Foma (Czech Republic), Fotokemika (Croatia) and a couple of Chinese companies (Lucky, etc.) are actually the last of the Mohickans.

I think Rollei film is also outsourced - the same probably goes for Wephota. I'm not sure about the others.

Denis
Click to expand...

Denis,

I'm sure you're right. The way I read it, the 'real' list of makers of B&W film is:

Kodak (USA)
Fujifilm (Japan)
Konica Minolta (Japan)
Ilford (UK)
Forte (Hungary)
Efke (Croatia)
Foma (Czech Republic)
Tasma (Russia)
Lucky (China)

There appear to be several more in China that I have not yet run down, but it would appear that they are all owned ultimately by Kodak, even if they still make their 'own' products. Svema in Ukraine, but I can't seem to contact them. The rest all repackage films made by others, I think. If I am wrong, I know someone will correct me.

By the way, I love Fomapan 200. Great film! I still need to try some Tasma, and I have some Lucky but have not shot it yet.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks
 
Thanks for all the effort Bill!
One thing I can add; I'm absolutely sure Mitsubishi COLOUR film is re-packaged Konica. When I was a cruiseship photographerwe had an agreement with Konica to use their lab equipment on all the ships in the fleet and, of course, use their film exclusively. Depending on where we were in the world, our film would often arrive in the Mitsubishi packaging instead of Konica, but it printed axactly the same using all the same colur channels.
B&W OTH?...
 
photogdave said:
Thanks for all the effort Bill!
One thing I can add; I'm absolutely sure Mitsubishi COLOUR film is re-packaged Konica. When I was a cruiseship photographerwe had an agreement with Konica to use their lab equipment on all the ships in the fleet and, of course, use their film exclusively. Depending on where we were in the world, our film would often arrive in the Mitsubishi packaging instead of Konica, but it printed axactly the same using all the same colur channels.
B&W OTH?...
Click to expand...

Well, I had heard that too, so I think you're right. However, they did make or sell B&W film as well - the standard panchromatic stuff, not the C41 chromogenic. It would appear that they no longer make / sell it, though. I suspect that Denis is right about who made their B&W for them. Funny though - Mitsubishi is a big manufacturer of PET and other plastic films - so they make the plastic bits, they would just need the gelatin and chemistry to make photographic film. It's a mystery.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks
 
Well,

I'd be up for this, sounds like an enterprising and constructive solution to a looming problem. You've obviously done a lot of work on this issue, so thanks for that. Also, it sounds like other forum members have a lot of knowledge too. As for me, I'm a bit behind on this but I do recall that here in the UK, there used to be a number of minor 'own brands' on the market. I assume most of these have now disappeared, but I do know that Jessops who are our major photographic retailer have their own brand, and have recently seen these on the shelves. Boots who are our largest chemists also used to have their own brand. I'm due to go in on Saturday to pick up some processed E6 from Jessops, so will have a little nosey round then, and report back. I am assuming that these own brands are in fact made by one of the major players, but who knows they may not be.

It may also be useful at the end of the day to construct a pdf file of our findings to help others in their search for that elusive silver halide.

And just a quick addendum: What about Polaroid?, probably not of much relevance to many of us using 35mm, but they do still offer several black and white emulsions in various sizes including 5x4

What's the next step?
 
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sfb_dot_com said:
Well,

I'd be up for this, sounds like an enterprising and constructive solution to a looming problem. You've obviously done a lot of work on this issue, so thanks for that. Also, it sounds like other forum members have a lot of knowledge too. As for me, I'm a bit behind on this but I do recall that here in the UK, there used to be a number of minor 'own brands' on the market. I assume most of these have now disappeared, but I do know that Jessops who are our major photographic retailer have their own brand, and have recently seen these on the shelves. Boots who are our largest chemists also used to have their own brand. I'm due to go in on Saturday to pick up some processed E6 from Jessops, so will have a little nosey round then, and report back. I am assuming that these own brands are in fact made by one of the major players, but who knows they may not be.

It may also be useful at the end of the day to construct a pdf file of our findings to help others in their search for that elusive silver halide.

What's the next step?
Click to expand...

I agree with you that most of the 'house brands' are relabeled, which is usually a good thing for consumers - it allows the maker to sell at a lower price point without destroying their brand value and gives the knowledgeable consumer options. Sometimes, the relabeler is forbidden from revealing who makes the film for them, but in the USA, often the box gives it away - 'Made in Hungary' (or wherever) can only mean one thing! I'm not sure if they have similar 'statement of origin' laws in the UK and elsewhere.

Much of the 'house brand' color film in the US is Agfa Vista. Of course, that will have to change now that Agfa Photo is no more, and I'm not sure what the big chains in the US will do - will they line up another 'store brand' maker, or just drop it and concentrate on digital? We notice week by week that the retailers reduce shelf space given over to film in the USA. It may be different in the UK, of course.

I am hoping to be able to build a chart of makers with their cross-references (i.e., Arista.EDU Ultra 200 is actually Fomapan 200, etc), list of biggest and mailorder retailers and stockists, and a subset list of the emulsions and sizes available. I would be pleased to keep such a database available online and we could all keep it updated, a'la Wikipedia.

The next step will be for me to contact the company again, responding to their recent email to me, and let them know how big an order I would like to make and of what types of film. Then I presume they will make me a quote and we'll work out a method of payment. I work at a large bank, so I presume I can get an International Letter of Credit for a small amount and go from there, assuming that they cannot accept a direct payment of US dollars.

But their website indicates a minimum order of 400 rolls of 35mm - that's a lot for an experiment - what if it all stinks? I may ask them if they can send me a representative sample and we'll hand it out here on RFF and get the results back and go from there.

What does everyone think?

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks
 
I agree that if the minimum order is 400 rolls, most people would want to evaluate it first, or at least have it evaluated by someone we agree is technically proficient and responsible.

Another interesting question would be processing info -- we'd want to know if the company provides developing times for developers that are readily available.

Interesting project, and thank you for pursuing it!
 
jlw said:
I agree that if the minimum order is 400 rolls, most people would want to evaluate it first, or at least have it evaluated by someone we agree is technically proficient and responsible.

Another interesting question would be processing info -- we'd want to know if the company provides developing times for developers that are readily available.

Interesting project, and thank you for pursuing it!
Click to expand...

They list times for Kodak D-23 and D-76 on their website:

http://www.chinastera.com/English/ERA1/English_product3.htm

They're a little vague on it though - reporting 6-10 minutes at 20 deg C and unknown dilution. That is, if I'm reading it right. It sounds pretty standard, I'm sure we could sort something reasonable out, and there is always Diafine in last-ditch cases!

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks
 
I'll go in for a few rolls provided the developing matter is clarified - I don't do my own developing.
 
Bill,

Thanks for the thread and the research. I would be interested in trying some of the 35mm and 120/220 roll too if they have it. I wasn't able to understand that they did. I would also be interested in trying 4x5.

Is anyone interested in trying paper? I don't even own an enlarger any more, but might be interested in trying some of it for contact printing 4x5.
 
Rereading the 4x5 page from above, I get the impression that the D-76 is used at stock strength rather than diluted. I'd be only using Diafine anyway, so I'd be curious to see how much of a speed bump it gets. If it's as typical an old fashioned emulsion as it appears in that page, it may well gain two stops easily.

William
 
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