pvdhaar
Peter
Bob Helmond
Member
As a veteran of many years of photography, I was fortunate to learn early-on the importance of prompt and orderly management of negatives, contact prints and the identification of the final prints.
Call me paranoid, overly-cautious whatever, but I am positively anal on this subject, but even after nearly five decades of shooting sometimes hundreds of rolls a year, I can still locate a negative for repriinting within seconds if I have access to either an original print or a contact sheet.
The method of my madness is as follows...
Immediately after film processing, 35mm (or 6x6 or 4x5) the film is stored in glassine envelopes. In the case of 35mm the roll is cut into seven strips of five frames (I bulk load rolls that are 35 frames long), and using a Koh-I-Noor technical pen and permanent ink the roll number is penned between the sprocket holes above the first frames. Then all seven strips are slid into the glassine, and the roll number is penned onto the double-layer area of the long seam of the envelope.
If I developed one roll of film today, the roll number would be:
06-11.24-1 (2006-Nov 24-Roll#1)
Of course, the millenium bug bit me, but it's not a computing system and so had no effect on efficiency.
Now, when the contact print is made the roll number is auto-printed on the front along with the frames, but to facilitate the identification of roll numbers in the subdued illumination of the darkroom, the roll number is copied with a fat felt-tipped marker on the reverse.
Negatives are stored in metal drawers, and the contacts in 250 sheet 8x10 paper boxes which can easily hold a few years worth of contacts.
A few details. The 35-frame rolls permit the printing of the complete roll on one sheet of 8x10 paper. The finished prints have the roll number written on the back with the addition of a frame number as in, 06-11.24-1.1.
Some anal archivists may take issue with the use of glassines, but after fifty years I look at my negatives, and there are no issues. By sliding all seven strips in and out only one base and one emulsion side are exposed to the possibility of damage or scratching. Also the 8x10 boxes are free and with the amount of printing I do, are also plentiful.
Now there's one other area of my filing system that bears mentioning. I make one extra contact sheet. This is used to cut out the individual frames that are real keepers and paste them onto 3x5 index cards which have the roll and frame number and other relevant information regarding the image. When viewed with an illuminated magnifier it's just like looking at a print on a wall. Very handy for doing rough layouts. These mini-prints are stored by subject matter in old oak library catalog drawers.
Hope this gets you in the right direction, and if it's more info than you require, well, you asked!
Call me paranoid, overly-cautious whatever, but I am positively anal on this subject, but even after nearly five decades of shooting sometimes hundreds of rolls a year, I can still locate a negative for repriinting within seconds if I have access to either an original print or a contact sheet.
The method of my madness is as follows...
Immediately after film processing, 35mm (or 6x6 or 4x5) the film is stored in glassine envelopes. In the case of 35mm the roll is cut into seven strips of five frames (I bulk load rolls that are 35 frames long), and using a Koh-I-Noor technical pen and permanent ink the roll number is penned between the sprocket holes above the first frames. Then all seven strips are slid into the glassine, and the roll number is penned onto the double-layer area of the long seam of the envelope.
If I developed one roll of film today, the roll number would be:
06-11.24-1 (2006-Nov 24-Roll#1)
Of course, the millenium bug bit me, but it's not a computing system and so had no effect on efficiency.
Now, when the contact print is made the roll number is auto-printed on the front along with the frames, but to facilitate the identification of roll numbers in the subdued illumination of the darkroom, the roll number is copied with a fat felt-tipped marker on the reverse.
Negatives are stored in metal drawers, and the contacts in 250 sheet 8x10 paper boxes which can easily hold a few years worth of contacts.
A few details. The 35-frame rolls permit the printing of the complete roll on one sheet of 8x10 paper. The finished prints have the roll number written on the back with the addition of a frame number as in, 06-11.24-1.1.
Some anal archivists may take issue with the use of glassines, but after fifty years I look at my negatives, and there are no issues. By sliding all seven strips in and out only one base and one emulsion side are exposed to the possibility of damage or scratching. Also the 8x10 boxes are free and with the amount of printing I do, are also plentiful.
Now there's one other area of my filing system that bears mentioning. I make one extra contact sheet. This is used to cut out the individual frames that are real keepers and paste them onto 3x5 index cards which have the roll and frame number and other relevant information regarding the image. When viewed with an illuminated magnifier it's just like looking at a print on a wall. Very handy for doing rough layouts. These mini-prints are stored by subject matter in old oak library catalog drawers.
Hope this gets you in the right direction, and if it's more info than you require, well, you asked!
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amateriat
We're all light!
Bob; That's not too far off from the method I learned from David Vestal's The Craft of Photography, and which I (mostly) use a modified version of.
I'm with you on the one-roll-per-glassine system. Never had a problem with it, and it makes organizing one hell of a lot easier, especially for semi-layabouts like me!
- Barrett
I'm with you on the one-roll-per-glassine system. Never had a problem with it, and it makes organizing one hell of a lot easier, especially for semi-layabouts like me!
- Barrett
jlw
Rangefinder camera pedant
Binders and binder pages take up too much space for me because I've got so many negatives.
I bought a big (1000', I think) roll of Perma-File negative sleeving, the same type the labs use. This is supposed to be safer than glassine envelopes, because it doesn't have seams or glue. I've got a cardboard template taped to the top of the box so it's easy to cut off a six-frame length.
When I get a roll developed, I cut it (or have it cut) into strips of either 5 or 6, and put the entire roll into one of these sleeves. Then I write the roll number onto the outside of the sleeve with black permanent marker.
(My roll numbering system is sequential by year, month, and roll that month -- so for example, the first roll I shot in November was 06-11-01, the second was 06-11-02, etc.)
Contact sheets get marked with the corresponding number and filed separately in a filing cabinet. This makes it possible to let people paw through my contact sheets without having them messing with my negatives.
When a negative gets printed, the print is marked with the roll number plus frame number: 06-11-02_16a, for example.
To make it easier to look up rolls, I enter the roll numbers in a FileMaker database I set up myself. It lists the roll number for each roll, plus the other information that pertains to the kinds of photos I take. (I mostly do dance and theatrical performances, so my database identifies rolls by company, theater, featured performers, etc.)
I'm very good about numbering and filing the negs and contacts right away, but I admit that I sometimes postpone the database entries until I've got several months' worth, then do them all at once.
Incidentally, this same system works fine for digital shooting as well -- I number them the same way, but it's a "shoot number" instead of a "roll number." Everything else is handled the same way. My database includes a code that tells me whether a particular number is a set of 35mm negatives, 120 negatives, 35mm slides, or digital images.
I bought a big (1000', I think) roll of Perma-File negative sleeving, the same type the labs use. This is supposed to be safer than glassine envelopes, because it doesn't have seams or glue. I've got a cardboard template taped to the top of the box so it's easy to cut off a six-frame length.
When I get a roll developed, I cut it (or have it cut) into strips of either 5 or 6, and put the entire roll into one of these sleeves. Then I write the roll number onto the outside of the sleeve with black permanent marker.
(My roll numbering system is sequential by year, month, and roll that month -- so for example, the first roll I shot in November was 06-11-01, the second was 06-11-02, etc.)
Contact sheets get marked with the corresponding number and filed separately in a filing cabinet. This makes it possible to let people paw through my contact sheets without having them messing with my negatives.
When a negative gets printed, the print is marked with the roll number plus frame number: 06-11-02_16a, for example.
To make it easier to look up rolls, I enter the roll numbers in a FileMaker database I set up myself. It lists the roll number for each roll, plus the other information that pertains to the kinds of photos I take. (I mostly do dance and theatrical performances, so my database identifies rolls by company, theater, featured performers, etc.)
I'm very good about numbering and filing the negs and contacts right away, but I admit that I sometimes postpone the database entries until I've got several months' worth, then do them all at once.
Incidentally, this same system works fine for digital shooting as well -- I number them the same way, but it's a "shoot number" instead of a "roll number." Everything else is handled the same way. My database includes a code that tells me whether a particular number is a set of 35mm negatives, 120 negatives, 35mm slides, or digital images.
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gchpaco
Member
Graham's archive system
Graham's archive system
When I first started, I had the intention of scanning all my negatives and using the scans as proofs. This turns out to have been very labor intensive, so what I've settled upon and used for the last several years is the following:
There are some things about it I don't like that I haven't fixed because of time inclinations; specifically putting the date in the roll ID somehow would probably be useful. My eyesight is still relatively good and is particularly good at close up work, so the fact that my proofs for 35mm negatives are as teensy as the negatives itself is not much of an inconvenience; someone less blessed may prefer a different system. When I didn't have access to something that could do RA-4 printing, the question of what to do with color negatives bedeviled me; RA-4 contact sheets are very efficient to make, in a way that scanning an entire roll is decidedly not.
Graham's archive system
When I first started, I had the intention of scanning all my negatives and using the scans as proofs. This turns out to have been very labor intensive, so what I've settled upon and used for the last several years is the following:
- negatives (and positives) live in PrintFile sleeves in archival binders in one of my bookshelves
- negatives have a contact sheet in the same binder as the negative
- this contact sheet has been marked up with a China marker to indicate which exposures are worthwhile
- scans are irregular and only when I want digital output, which is very rare these days
- each roll is assigned a roll ID as it is put in the binder
- each roll records the date it was processed (PrintFile sleeves have positions for both)
- specific exposures are referred to as <roll ID>.<exposure number>
- binders are in order by roll ID
- circular stickers are attached to the binders to note which binders have rolls that have not had contact sheets made, not been proofed, or the like.
There are some things about it I don't like that I haven't fixed because of time inclinations; specifically putting the date in the roll ID somehow would probably be useful. My eyesight is still relatively good and is particularly good at close up work, so the fact that my proofs for 35mm negatives are as teensy as the negatives itself is not much of an inconvenience; someone less blessed may prefer a different system. When I didn't have access to something that could do RA-4 printing, the question of what to do with color negatives bedeviled me; RA-4 contact sheets are very efficient to make, in a way that scanning an entire roll is decidedly not.
craygc
Well-known
I never worry about dating film but I do organise. Once Ive developed and cut a roll it immediately goes into a PrintFile sleeve. Onto this sleeve I stick a small peel off tag on which I write - folder.sequence_number.film_type. Folder just identifies which ring binder the sleeve is in, neg1, neg2, etc; sequence number is just what it says, 0001 ... 0271, 0272, etc; the film type is a consistent format, eg D400 for Delta 400, etc.
These sleeves are just set under weight to flatten the negs and as they are scanned, I have the scanner name the file as eg "neg2.0271.d400.0#". Once the sleeve is scanned, I file it into the folders. As each image is appropriately post-processed I take the ID format in the name and place it into a slot in the EXIF data, then rename the file to reflect that naming convention - this way the identification info always travels with the digital file. (iViewMedia Pro that I used to use stored this info in proprietary files and was what finally drove me to use Lightroom as its replacement)
In doing this, at any point in the process - now or later - I always know where to find a file and/or its associated negative - before or after processing. On top of this I have a comprehensive digital storage system - working drives are a RAID 1 pair on a 4 TeraByte Gig.Eth NAS, these are incrementally copied to two more separate drives (these are on internal drives) - one over each night and the other once a week - all in folder no larger than 4.3 GB. As each of these folders reach this capacity I burn 2 copies on Taiyo Yuden DVDs with one copy at home and the other in the office
These sleeves are just set under weight to flatten the negs and as they are scanned, I have the scanner name the file as eg "neg2.0271.d400.0#". Once the sleeve is scanned, I file it into the folders. As each image is appropriately post-processed I take the ID format in the name and place it into a slot in the EXIF data, then rename the file to reflect that naming convention - this way the identification info always travels with the digital file. (iViewMedia Pro that I used to use stored this info in proprietary files and was what finally drove me to use Lightroom as its replacement)
In doing this, at any point in the process - now or later - I always know where to find a file and/or its associated negative - before or after processing. On top of this I have a comprehensive digital storage system - working drives are a RAID 1 pair on a 4 TeraByte Gig.Eth NAS, these are incrementally copied to two more separate drives (these are on internal drives) - one over each night and the other once a week - all in folder no larger than 4.3 GB. As each of these folders reach this capacity I burn 2 copies on Taiyo Yuden DVDs with one copy at home and the other in the office
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mackigator
Well-known
Old threads rock!
This brings up a question I have been thinking about. If my negs are in Printfile sleeves, does it matter what they are then stored in ? In other words, is there an archival difference between a $10 plastic hanging file bin and a $40 archival one? Or in a cheapo binder and an archival one? Does the difference matter once the negs are sleeved in archival Printfile sheets?
This brings up a question I have been thinking about. If my negs are in Printfile sleeves, does it matter what they are then stored in ? In other words, is there an archival difference between a $10 plastic hanging file bin and a $40 archival one? Or in a cheapo binder and an archival one? Does the difference matter once the negs are sleeved in archival Printfile sheets?
kshapero
South Florida Man
In a drawer, getting bigger all the time. I also have CD scans for most of my negs. They are dated which helps. But generally speaking I am a mess.
urban_alchemist
Well-known
Different folder by year.
Negs numbered in sheets with corresponding contact-sheet/index, and a list of all rolls including date, film type, location and subject keywords. List, contact and neg-sheet all share same number.
Usually get around to it once a month - infront of something REALLY bad on TV...
Negs numbered in sheets with corresponding contact-sheet/index, and a list of all rolls including date, film type, location and subject keywords. List, contact and neg-sheet all share same number.
Usually get around to it once a month - infront of something REALLY bad on TV...
sepiareverb
genius and moron
Films get a sequential number as they are shot- color films start with a C. B&W roll 5137 was shot yesterday, and C836 is in the MP3 now. Frame numbers are easily added to the roll number, and my proof prints get these numbers on the back- every one. So I can find the negative of print 5137.24 as easily as I can find the negative of print 0459.01, shot in 1986.
B&W negs are put in Print File pages and stored in 1" binders- I'm currently in binder #51- and proofsheets are stored in separate binders. I have ten 1" binders that contain the most recent proofsheets, older proofs are stored in 3" binders upstairs. Color negative films get stored in archival boxes- the paged films and proofsheet together in a polyester pocket. I've only been shooting color neg for six years, but this method has lasted. I get my proofs on 10x12 paper, so binders don't work. There are lists in each box to aid in finding things. B&W neg books have a cover page with film #, subject/place, camera/lens/filtration, film type/ISO, and developer/push/pull/normal. These sheets are all in a binder as well.
Slides are stored in metal boxes. I don't shoot much slide film anymore, but when I shot stock daily the slides got edited and then numbered with a year/sequential number (ie: 09-01345).
When I did lots of commercial work those films/slides were stored via the client name, then job number- which began with year/month.
B&W negs are put in Print File pages and stored in 1" binders- I'm currently in binder #51- and proofsheets are stored in separate binders. I have ten 1" binders that contain the most recent proofsheets, older proofs are stored in 3" binders upstairs. Color negative films get stored in archival boxes- the paged films and proofsheet together in a polyester pocket. I've only been shooting color neg for six years, but this method has lasted. I get my proofs on 10x12 paper, so binders don't work. There are lists in each box to aid in finding things. B&W neg books have a cover page with film #, subject/place, camera/lens/filtration, film type/ISO, and developer/push/pull/normal. These sheets are all in a binder as well.
Slides are stored in metal boxes. I don't shoot much slide film anymore, but when I shot stock daily the slides got edited and then numbered with a year/sequential number (ie: 09-01345).
When I did lots of commercial work those films/slides were stored via the client name, then job number- which began with year/month.
eleskin
Well-known
Glass slide mounts for negative storage
Glass slide mounts for negative storage
I use sealed negative boxes that have the 3 ring locking pins for clear negative storage sheets. My important shots are mounted individually in Gepe glass slide mounts for protection and the ability to find the film image fast. My logic was you take thousands of shots, but a fraction of those are the ones you always go back to for prints. The slide mounted negs are then placed in clear sheets that have pockets to hold them. also remember that you can print directly through the mounts. My shots all print perfectly in my Leitz focomat 1C. I have made 30"x40" fiber prints through glass slide mounts with no distortion or loss of quality. Here is another plus: Because the important negatives are mounted like slides and are protected by glass, the risk of damage by scratching the film by a dirt particle when pulling the film out of a negative sleeve is eliminated.
Glass slide mounts for negative storage
I use sealed negative boxes that have the 3 ring locking pins for clear negative storage sheets. My important shots are mounted individually in Gepe glass slide mounts for protection and the ability to find the film image fast. My logic was you take thousands of shots, but a fraction of those are the ones you always go back to for prints. The slide mounted negs are then placed in clear sheets that have pockets to hold them. also remember that you can print directly through the mounts. My shots all print perfectly in my Leitz focomat 1C. I have made 30"x40" fiber prints through glass slide mounts with no distortion or loss of quality. Here is another plus: Because the important negatives are mounted like slides and are protected by glass, the risk of damage by scratching the film by a dirt particle when pulling the film out of a negative sleeve is eliminated.
eleskin
Well-known
"All Photographers are LAZY"
"All Photographers are LAZY"
one thing I failed to mention is that I hated flipping through page after page of negatives to find a shot I wanted. By keeping your favorites in glass mounts in another binder, you will never have to go through reams of film again to find your favorite shot. I professor that I had when I was at Pratt Institute , NYC (Phil Perkis) said "All photographers are LAZY" meaning if you do things right the first time (exposure, etc,,,the problem you face, etc,,,) you will do a minimum of work to achieve the end result.
"All Photographers are LAZY"
one thing I failed to mention is that I hated flipping through page after page of negatives to find a shot I wanted. By keeping your favorites in glass mounts in another binder, you will never have to go through reams of film again to find your favorite shot. I professor that I had when I was at Pratt Institute , NYC (Phil Perkis) said "All photographers are LAZY" meaning if you do things right the first time (exposure, etc,,,the problem you face, etc,,,) you will do a minimum of work to achieve the end result.
charjohncarter
Veteran
negatives are a lot easier to oganize than digital files, at least for me.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
Tell me about it. I'm thinking about trying some screenshot 'proofsheets' of various folders of edited work. I've now got a color laserprinter at work so it might be pretty easy...
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
Since 1987 I have been good at organize files. Primary reason is that I stopped shooting commercially and just for myself. For commercial jobs, everything got filed under client name and shooting dates. Easy enough. My own negs got stuffed into filepages or slide files and stuck in boxes!
In 1987 I started my current system. One letter and sequential numbering. The advantage is that I can dedicated a letter to an area or specific subject and just run a 3 digit film-number. Example P-107 would mean shot in Paris and the number would indicate that it is shot in 1988 (the binder will have the numerical sequence for a specific year),
My regular shooting here in Vancouver or North America is a simple running sequence V,A,B,C,D,E and soon F +001 to 1000 for each letter. Each file page is noted with its number, month, camera,film, developer and also if there is something specific about the roll (camera test, winder test etc). With PrintFiles 6 across and 7 down you have space for 42 negs and if you keep it down to 37-39 shots, that leaves 3-4 inches "free" for notes directly on the page. Fabers India Ink pens (medium, broad nib) works well and doesn't fade.
More specific notes are made for travel shots. S,T or P designation and a simple sheet at the front of the binder will give me the specific trip and the # on the pages relating to it.
At the moment I have approx 7600 rolls filed this way. Any print is annotated with the film number on the back. I don't do contacts anymore, but as I edit directly from negative files I simply circle the specific negative intended for scanning or printing with the marker pen.
So far I have not found any major problem with this system and as I diligently do the marking after each print session - it has become a habit.
Of course, what is left to do is go through all those boxes and binders from pre-87 and sort and file those. One day I will get to it!!!!
In 1987 I started my current system. One letter and sequential numbering. The advantage is that I can dedicated a letter to an area or specific subject and just run a 3 digit film-number. Example P-107 would mean shot in Paris and the number would indicate that it is shot in 1988 (the binder will have the numerical sequence for a specific year),
My regular shooting here in Vancouver or North America is a simple running sequence V,A,B,C,D,E and soon F +001 to 1000 for each letter. Each file page is noted with its number, month, camera,film, developer and also if there is something specific about the roll (camera test, winder test etc). With PrintFiles 6 across and 7 down you have space for 42 negs and if you keep it down to 37-39 shots, that leaves 3-4 inches "free" for notes directly on the page. Fabers India Ink pens (medium, broad nib) works well and doesn't fade.
More specific notes are made for travel shots. S,T or P designation and a simple sheet at the front of the binder will give me the specific trip and the # on the pages relating to it.
At the moment I have approx 7600 rolls filed this way. Any print is annotated with the film number on the back. I don't do contacts anymore, but as I edit directly from negative files I simply circle the specific negative intended for scanning or printing with the marker pen.
So far I have not found any major problem with this system and as I diligently do the marking after each print session - it has become a habit.
Of course, what is left to do is go through all those boxes and binders from pre-87 and sort and file those. One day I will get to it!!!!
historicist
Well-known
Usually I scan my negatives in, and store them as tiffs in folders organised by year/month with filenames which say what camera and film were used, and what the subject of the photo is. I have a subfolder with small jpegs made by a batch action, to make it quicker to look through everything.
This serves as my organisation, the negatives themselves either get thrown in a big bag (35mm) or put in a folder (120) which is at least implicitly organised by date.
This serves as my organisation, the negatives themselves either get thrown in a big bag (35mm) or put in a folder (120) which is at least implicitly organised by date.
dshfoto
Well-known
The negatives are copied to digital using a digital camera and enlarging lenses.The negatives are not cut. Rolls are stored, without sleeves in 8” x 10” boxes with dividers made out of matte board. The lid of the box can be ruled in a grid, and information written about the rolls.
All the digital processing and printing is done with Linux (Mandriva, BibblePro, Gimp, ImageMagick, and TurboPrint).
All the digital processing and printing is done with Linux (Mandriva, BibblePro, Gimp, ImageMagick, and TurboPrint).
Andrew Sowerby
Well-known
I get the disc with the scans and the negs back from the lab. The scans are stored in my computer in a subfolder with the date (e.g. today would be 012109). The individual scan files get a letter at the end (e.g. 012109a, 012109b). The negs are sleeved with the same subfolder name and put in a binder. The CD and index print are labeled and put in a CD storage book.
I'm not a very prolific shooter (maybe a roll every week or two) so it's easy to stay on top of things. I don't know how folks who shoot hundreds of rolls a year and scan the stuff themselves do it. I would go crazy.
I'm not a very prolific shooter (maybe a roll every week or two) so it's easy to stay on top of things. I don't know how folks who shoot hundreds of rolls a year and scan the stuff themselves do it. I would go crazy.
L
lkgroup
Guest
After processing my negatives I cut them into lengths of six and store in a print file which can take 7 strips.
I have a label which I fill in the date place camera lenses type of film developer and times and notes. Also I number the page.
09-01-001
09 = year 01 month January 001 first roll of the year. At the print stage I number the negs 1-36(37). So 08-05-215-10 would be the 10 negative of roll 215 for the year 2008 month of May.
I tape a 8.5 x 11 mailing manila envelop closed and cut off the top 3/4 of an inch and use the folder to file each month. The folders are stored in a file cabinet.
I'm good at getting to this stage but not so good about getting interesting pictures scanned and printed or published (flickr or others). That is on my 2009 resolution list.
Leo
I have a label which I fill in the date place camera lenses type of film developer and times and notes. Also I number the page.
09-01-001
09 = year 01 month January 001 first roll of the year. At the print stage I number the negs 1-36(37). So 08-05-215-10 would be the 10 negative of roll 215 for the year 2008 month of May.
I tape a 8.5 x 11 mailing manila envelop closed and cut off the top 3/4 of an inch and use the folder to file each month. The folders are stored in a file cabinet.
I'm good at getting to this stage but not so good about getting interesting pictures scanned and printed or published (flickr or others). That is on my 2009 resolution list.
Leo
Prosaic
Well-known
I´ll throw away what I dont like in the first place though.