Rob-F
Likes Leicas
That website shows that the later model has better dynamic range, but does that really contradict what Sonnar Brian had to say?
Original M Monochrom Still a Good Buy?
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That website shows that the later model has better dynamic range, but does that really contradict what Sonnar Brian had to say?
Sonnar Brian
Established
Dynamic range is the ratio from "brightest to darkest", saturation to threshold. The number of bits controls the number of intensity levels that brightest to darkest get divided into. Leica should have used 14-bits, even more for cameras with wide dynamic range. So- you get contouring, coarse recording of the intensity over a wide dynamic range.
Leica has a problem understanding digital imaging. The lossy-compression of the M8, and also implemented in the M9- is horrible, caused the color banding at high-ISO. Using 12-bits for the M246 limits post-processing the image, which is often required for digital monochrome, also shows lack of understanding.
And Leica Firmware that runs in the cameras: note that Leica does not have a "Software Bug Report" form for reporting the many problems.
I'm sticking with my M9 and M Monochrom, I know how to get the most out of them. I've worked with CCD's since they were new. I see many more M246 cameras on the used market than M Monochrom cameras with replaced sensors. It's a 10 year old camera. At the price they are going for: "Not a good buy" in most practical definitions. If you needed to buy a monochrome KAF-18500 for a piece of scientific equipment, a used M Monochrom is cheap. If you just prefer the rendering of a CCD: it is the last of the breed.
Leica has a problem understanding digital imaging. The lossy-compression of the M8, and also implemented in the M9- is horrible, caused the color banding at high-ISO. Using 12-bits for the M246 limits post-processing the image, which is often required for digital monochrome, also shows lack of understanding.
And Leica Firmware that runs in the cameras: note that Leica does not have a "Software Bug Report" form for reporting the many problems.
I'm sticking with my M9 and M Monochrom, I know how to get the most out of them. I've worked with CCD's since they were new. I see many more M246 cameras on the used market than M Monochrom cameras with replaced sensors. It's a 10 year old camera. At the price they are going for: "Not a good buy" in most practical definitions. If you needed to buy a monochrome KAF-18500 for a piece of scientific equipment, a used M Monochrom is cheap. If you just prefer the rendering of a CCD: it is the last of the breed.
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
Thanks, Brian. That was the summary I needed.
Oren Grad
Well-known
On the one hand, the M 246 does have a larger dynamic range, by a clear margin. The fact that it's recorded in 12 bits rather than 14 doesn't change that. FWIW, I've processed many M 246 files, usually with large to extreme curve adjustments because I tend to dislike the way raw converters render Leica Monochrom files at default settings. In doing that, I've never run into posterization. YMMV.
On the other hand, for scenes that don't require that extra stop and a half to render in a way that suits, the original MM can make excellent pictures too.
On the third hand, as has already been said, the M 246 is newer, is more refined mechanically and electronically, is more readily available now, and seems likely to have service available for some time to come.
Whichever way you go, good luck and enjoy! 🙂
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
IMO, M9M is closest alternative to BW film.
But..t..
Here is no sensors, controller boards and who knows what else Leica doesn't have anymore.
So, not an opinion, but fact. Buying of M9M now is buying of one of the most expensive obsoletes.
If something goes wrong, Leica Camera AG will have graceful mercy on you. They will offer 10K USD camera for 9K USD.
For my muddy BW film style, I was able to find much less expensive alternative. GRD series.
One is GRD III inkjet print another is DR traditional print.
M9M is more if you are after MF/LF film alternative, IMO.
DwF
Well-known
Ultimately, it comes down to what you like, and the practicality for you owning an older digital M body. I can't argue that the 246 is more modern and a great camera.
For me it's all to do with the feeling I get processing the files with my MM that I never felt any desire to upgrade. Also my own personal history with this camera, Ive sold many cameras since owning this one camera that has stayed with me.
From this past weekend-
Seeing Helen's beautiful shot above w graffiti I can't resist posting this relatively early one I made with the MM.
I love the rendering in combination with 50mm C-Sonnar
David
For me it's all to do with the feeling I get processing the files with my MM that I never felt any desire to upgrade. Also my own personal history with this camera, Ive sold many cameras since owning this one camera that has stayed with me.
From this past weekend-
Seeing Helen's beautiful shot above w graffiti I can't resist posting this relatively early one I made with the MM.
I love the rendering in combination with 50mm C-Sonnar
David
Sonnar Brian
Established
My M Monochrom- some favorite shots. Reminds me of my Panatomic-X in Microdol days.
I just don't worry about blown highlights- never did.
Unless working in LWIR and MWIR. That was the 1980s for me.
Jupiter-3, wide-open, ISO 10,000. Better than I could get by pushing Tri-X.
gamma1m1_SEFX2 by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr
Jupiter-3, wide-open, ISO 5000.
Gamma 1.0 M1 DNG-16, Panatomic-X Emulation by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr
I just don't worry about blown highlights- never did.
Unless working in LWIR and MWIR. That was the 1980s for me.
Jupiter-3, wide-open, ISO 10,000. Better than I could get by pushing Tri-X.
gamma1m1_SEFX2 by fiftyonepointsix, on FlickrJupiter-3, wide-open, ISO 5000.
Gamma 1.0 M1 DNG-16, Panatomic-X Emulation by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr
DwF
Well-known
Those look good Brian. I loved Panatomic-X and to my eye, these from MM recall some of that look. I tend to try not to blow my highlights and prbably could push more than I do with MM files.
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
Even with the caveats about the lack of spare parts, I'm still feeling tempted--at least some of the time (the rest of the time I'm not convinced I need or want a monochrom of any version. What do I have a darkroom for). The 14 bit depth of the M9M makes it attractive to me, because I can actually see the remarkable shadow detail in examples published here in RFF. And 18MP seems enough for my needs. If one comes my way, I may take the risk.
helen.HH
To Light & Love ...
if that's what You desire... 😉
Leica Soho Store has an M9M for $3250.00
https://leicastoresoho.com/pre-owned-leica-m9-monochrom-4348087/
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
That does seem a little pricey. I don't think I could pull the trigger impulsively. I'd probably want to sell an M body or two to make room for it, if you know what i mean. Thanks for the heads-up!
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
. . . . . But then again, that is just what they cost. I got me one. Here's a shot with the 50mm Summicron on my M9M:
Samouraï
Well-known
Is there any way you would ever make that Fortran code available to any of us here? I would love to try it out and see how much more I can get out of the M9M.
Sonnar Brian
Established
Dropbox
www.dropbox.com
Fortran Source code, compile under Windows with the Watcom Fortran-77 compiler, version 2.
I expanded the "include files" to make it easier to compile under Windows 10. This will run in a Windows Console, or Powershell. You can give it a single file name, or just hit a return and have it sitting in the directory of files you want to process. I use a "spawn" to create a file with all of the DNG files in the directory. You can run "cmd", change the directory to the SD card, and run the program on it.
"Gammafix.for" optionally allows for fixing bad columns in the image, also fixes hot-pixels. You specify the bad column number in a file.
The software also creates the new DNG file with the Gamma curve applied, uses a "G" in place of "L" for the filename.
First file has Gamma Curve 3 added, second is straight conversion to JPeg.
Last edited by a moderator:
Samouraï
Well-known
Dropbox
Fortran Source code, compile under Windows with the Watcom Fortran-77 compiler, version 2.
I expanded the "include files" to make it easier to compile under Windows 10. This will run in a Windows Console, or Powershell. You can give it a single file name, or just hit a return and have it sitting in the directory of files you want to process. I use a "spawn" to create a file with all of the DNG files in the directory. You can run "cmd", change the directory to the SD card, and run the program on it.
"Gammafix.for" optionally allows for fixing bad columns in the image, also fixes hot-pixels. You specify the bad column number in a file.
The software also creates the new DNG file with the Gamma curve applied, uses a "G" in place of "L" for the filename.
First file has Gamma Curve 3 added, second is straight conversion to JPeg.
[...]
Thanks so much for that, it'll be a pleasure to put in some time with this and learn a thing or two.
Sonnar Brian
Established
Feel free to post questions in my "DIY" Forum.
Leica M8 bad Line interpolation. Or what you can do with Three lines of Fortran
BLUF- I've been using M8RAW2DNG since it was first out. I still use it. Produces uncompressed DNG, and slightly larger images. It is very easy to read the DNG files and work with them. A while ago I wrote custom code to produce color IR images using an Orange filter with the M8. You must use...
rangefinderforum.com
Just an example...
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