Orwo NP20 Development times.

[Sid836]

After trying unsuccessfully to find the elusive Orwo Rezepte 1100 to get the development times for the Orwo NP20 (ASA 80/DIN 20). I have tried the first roll of it in Rodinal 1+50 for a guessed development time of 12' minutes at 20 degC and the result was a very thin without much detail negative. What is the recommended developer and times for that film? I have several medium format rolls and consider developing them in fresh D23. Are there any times for that developer? Are there any suggestions available for D76 to use them as a reference point for the D23?

 

[zniv]

I developed a few rolls of NP20 in Rodinal. I definitely developed it longer, I think near to 18 min, in 1:25 dilution. And go back well-looking results.
But with that old film you can never be sure how it will react. Depends so much on how it was stored.

Have you considered just stand developing it?

 

[Sid836]

It seems indeed that 12 minutes was too short. I will try for 18 1+25 with my next roll. Do you recall at what sensitivity you had it shot at?
I had thought of stand development, but I avoid it as I have no control what I will get on the negative at the end. I usually do wet printing and sometimes thin negatives can be a problem there.

 

[k__43]

1h 1:100 😀
I think I did that successfully but have no example in my flickr stream

this one was on Diafine 3+3minutes:
""" by Kay K, on Flickr

 

[James1]

I've got a copy of Orwo Rezepte - a poor quality copy in English, or I could scan my book giving you a high-quality copy in German - let me know.

The times given for NP20 are as follows:

Orwo A03 (Agfa Refinal): full strength, approx 8 minutes
Orwo R09 (Agfa Rodinal - pre-1945 version): 1+40, 9-11 minutes
Orwo A49 (Agfa Atomal):full strength, 9-11 minutes

Your guess at 12 minutes wasn't too bad, but you might have got thin negatives because the agitation scheme advanced by Orwo is more agressive than "normal". I've developed NP20 (and its succesor Orwopan 100) for 14 minutes @20*C in original R09, agitating for 45 seconds, then three inversions per minute.

 

[Sid836]

@k__43 it looks great in Diafine. Pitty that I cannot get any in my country! 🙁

@James1 Could I have a scan of it if possible? I would really appreciate it!

Thank you very much for the developer/times. When saying aggressive how much more it should be over normal agitation? Currently I have been doing 30" initial and then three inversions every minute after. I guess that a more intense cogitation scheme plus 2-3 more minutes in the developer would had given me something more usable.

 

[zniv]

It seems indeed that 12 minutes was too short. I will try for 18 1+25 with my next roll. Do you recall at what sensitivity you had it shot at?

I had read somewhere that film loses sensitivity with age and that it should be overexposed, so I shot it at ISO 50.

 

[Sid836]

I have thought of that too. I will expose it at EI 50 to avoid absolute luck of detail in the blacks.

 

[k__43]

I'd really try Rodinal semi-stand for an hour - I do that with almost every expired film. you also don't have to compensate for temperature if it is within normal room temperatures

 

[Sid836]

I used to do stand developments with Rodinal with temperatures lower than 19 degC to avoid excessive grain. The negatives have always been thin though and the blacks were grainy back in photoshop. Also in some cases there was some strange halo around things. I am not sure I have been doing something wrong with stand development.

 

[James1]

Annoyingly, I cannot find the cable to my scanner, so I have taken a photo of the relevant pages instead...

... and also annoyingly, I cannot attach them to this post in a sensible resolution. Happy to send them by email to anyone that wants them. PM me.

In the Orwo 1100 process, agitation is referenced to the appropriate section of Orwo Rezepte for "Entwicklungsdose", where the agitation scheme is recommended to be one movement of the tank every 15 seconds.

Certainly, I have used this exact scheme to develop Orwo colour film, but I ended up with a more "normal" agitation as in my last post for developing Orwopan 100 (and Orwo NP55).

 

[Sid836]

Thank you James! I have found and bought the ORWO Rezepte book. My German is not that good to fully understand it, but I get the essentials. 🙂

I will definitely try aggitaion by one inversion every 15 seconds. My best so far to keep the grain low is the extended minimal agitation of 30" initial agitation, then 5" every three minutes after and prolonging the development time by 50%. It would be interesting.
Should one expect higher contrast by that?