OT: Photojournalist triumph

djon said:
Copake started this thread to applaud the success of a fine photographer, not to provide a forum for whining and jealousy.

When someone says he "can't be bothered" it means he simply isn't up to the challenge.

Seems that way to me.

Success of a photog? Really? Luck, yes. Success, I doubt it very much. Fine photog, I'm not going to argue that. Fact is, there are uncountable others who do similarly good or better work and never get the recognition they deserve, never even get the chance for that recognition, simply because they fail to produce the mediocre dros that sells and refuse to play the bribery game. If putting things in that perspective is "whining and jealousy" than so be it.

To me it's like the discussion of doping in sports. Everybody is against it but as long as tons of money is made from it and through its use, no-one will really want to go the whole mile and stamp it out. Those who do will be shunned and denied access to research, media and events. Those who don't use it will never reach the heights, awards, honours and money that goes with the winning positions.

And what challenge is there for me to not be up to? There's no challenge as I don't claim or aim to be a recognised photog. My challenges lie in entirely different fields. Those are the fields where I can be bothered as I have personal interests.
 
djon said:
Copake started this thread to applaud the success of a fine photographer, not to provide a forum for whining and jealousy.

When someone says he "can't be bothered" it means he simply isn't up to the challenge.

Seems that way to me.

A rather harsh judgement don't you think, sir? Especially since different people choose or have different challenges thrust upon them. Also not all people have the same interests. Some like Feds, some Kievs, and I hear there are a few who like Leicas, if you can believe that.

Perhaps a little more consideration for that diversity we all enjoy?

Have a good day sir.
 
This is kind of a weird thread.

The photograph is evocative and eye-catching. On the other hand, working news photographers tend to get more excited when they make a magazine cover. Each newspaper has 365 front pages every year, whereas a weekly news magazine has only 52.

It's not really a "lucky shot." It's the result of a hard-working professional who's been doing this for awhile and was assigned or self-assigned the story for a major news organization. Nobody characterized the accompanying story, by writers named Jane Perlez and Raymond Bonner, as having struck it "lucky" by being on the front page of the New York Times. They're professionals selected by their bosses to report on and interpret what's going on in the world, and their work measured up well enough to convince the editors to put in on that day's front page. Yes, there are many people who could have written just as capable a story -- perhaps even with greater beauty or charm. I don't think that's really the point. Folks in the news business are like the rest of us -- people who are just trying to get their jobs done, and those who try a little harder or have a little more talent or hustle or whatever tend to be the ones who succeed more often (but not always). For any pursuit, there are plenty of people who don't get the recognition they deserve, and plenty of others who won undeserved recognition. There's also a lot more to news photography than getting the prettiest picture. You have to balance art with equipment, your vision with that of your boss's; you have to ignore your family, travel a lot, be pushy, know how to sell yourself; plus you have to deal with a bunch of people who claim they're just as good as you are. Imagine ranting at your car mechanic just because you also know how to do an oil change. Listen folks, we pay news photographers to get a front-row seat of the world on our behalf so that the rest of us can go about our regular lives --like spending the holidays with our kids. Any one of us could've bought a plane ticket to Thailand and taken a picture of flaming lanterns. I, however, opted to spend the evening at home in the United States.

There's also not much point in harboring bitterness toward news photographers. Their professional demands help drive the quality and technology of the photo industry -- from the Leicas and Contaxes of the 1930s and 40s to the Nikkors of the mid-50s, which inspired the German/Japanese competition for quality up through today's digital revolutions. High-end photographers tend to be the ones who can afford to adopt cutting-edge technology, thereby getting it into the marketplace so that, over time, its cost can trickle down to ordinary consumer prices.
 
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All very valid arguments, Vince.

There's no one single answer, or one single opinion. I respect everyone's work and contribution to this world. I have done less than menial work in the past and I know how little recognition people get. And that's the whole point I want to make about this "honour": others deserve it as much or more but never get it, for many reasons. The one reason I strongly object to is the injustice caused by manipulation and corruption, of which there's just too much when it comes to contests of all sorts.



VinceC said:
This is kind of a weird thread.

The photograph is evocative and eye-catching. On the other hand, working news photographers tend to get more excited when they make a magazine cover. Each newspaper has 365 front pages every year, whereas a weekly news magazine has only 52.

It's not really a "lucky shot." It's the result of a hard-working professional who's been doing this for awhile and was assigned or self-assigned the story for a major news organization. Nobody characterized the accompanying story, by writers named Jane Perlez and Raymond Bonner, as having struck it "lucky" by being on the front page of the New York Times. They're professionals selected by their bosses to report on and interpret what's going on in the world, and their work measured up well enough to convince the editors to put in on that day's front page. Yes, there are many people who could have written just as capable a story -- perhaps even with greater beauty or charm. I don't think that's really the point. Folks in the news business are like the rest of us -- people who are just trying to get their jobs done, and those who try a little harder or have a little more talent or hustle or whatever tend to be the ones who succeed more often (but not always). For any pursuit, there are plenty of people who don't get the recognition they deserve, and plenty of others who won undeserved recognition. There's also a lot more to news photography than getting the prettiest picture. You have to balance art with equipment, your vision with that of your boss's; you have to ignore your family, travel a lot, be pushy, know how to sell yourself; plus you have to deal with a bunch of people who claim they're just as good as you are. Imagine ranting at your car mechanic just because you also know how to do an oil change. Listen folks, we pay news photographers to get a front-row seat of the world on our behalf so that the rest of us can go about our regular lives --like spending the holidays with our kids. Any one of us could've bought a plane ticket to Thailand and taken a picture of flaming lanterns. I, however, opted to spend the evening at home in the United States.

There's also not much point in harboring bitterness toward news photographers. Their professional demands help drive the quality and technology of the photo industry -- from the Leicas and Contaxes of the 1930s and 40s to the Nikkors of the mid-50s, which inspired the German/Japanese competition for quality up through today's digital revolutions. High-end photographers tend to be the ones who can afford to adopt cutting-edge technology, thereby getting it into the marketplace so that, over time, its cost can trickle down to ordinary consumer prices.
 
Somehow I feel "humbled". By simply recognizing the fact that a PJ photographer's shot was chosen by two major newspapers for the front page - I have been elevated by RML to having conferred "honors" on that individual.

I never requested such authority, and don't want it! All I was doing was commenting as a newspaper reader with an interesti in photography how proud this particular PJ must feel.

She or he works as a PJ. I'm sure that well over 99% of his/her photos never get published. Then, to have one of them "hit" the front pages of two major newspapers is - well I imagine it is like hitting the lottery.

I like to watch baseball and support a particular team. However, if an opposing pitcher on another team throws a perfect game against my team - I applaud him for having done so.

It's known as good sportsmanship and recognizing someone's success.

That's all it is.

If "shadenfreude" (sp?) is experiencing a feeling of joy in the misfortune of another - what do you call feeling antipathy in the good success of another? Becuase that's kind of what is going on here.
 
As a former PJ, thanks for bringing this to our attention!
As a former PJ who won "honours" and awards, I resent the suggestion that these are rigged. When I was in the profession I worked very hard and took great personal pride in the images I produced. When my collegues in the industry voted some of my images as their favourite, I was very happy and proud for the recognition of my peers. It meant I was "doing it right". There was never any financial reward for these accolades, not even a bonus or raise from the papers I worked for.
If someone is truly disinterested in this image, or the fact that it was brought to our attention, why comment on it at all?
 
Well Said

Well Said

photogdave said:
As a former PJ, thanks for bringing this to our attention!
As a former PJ who won "honours" and awards, I resent the suggestion that these are rigged. When I was in the profession I worked very hard and took great personal pride in the images I produced. When my collegues in the industry voted some of my images as their favourite, I was very happy and proud for the recognition of my peers. It meant I was "doing it right". There was never any financial reward for these accolades, not even a bonus or raise from the papers I worked for.
If someone is truly disinterested in this image, or the fact that it was brought to our attention, why comment on it at all?

A perfect riposte. Success in any field doesn't come easy and should be applauded.

Gid
 
Yes, there's zero "luck" invoved in this photographer's success...he got to the front page of the most important publication on earth because he met the particular editorial requirement of the particular photo editor (NYT employs the BEST) better than other hard workers happened to do. That this makes wannabes jealous is not a surprise.
 
as always, it's the your choice to stay or leave john.
but i do think you're missing the point here, in fact worse, you're trying to create a point that has not been made by any but you!!

no matter, i'll miss your 'character' should you choose to leave...

joe
 
Joe/Jon,

Please don't let this happen over what I thought was a simple "accolade" post.

It's not worth it - I am at fault for thinking it would be okay to post what I did. Jon simply agreed with the subject matter.

I am sorry.

George
 
george, relax. i don't see a problem with anything you have done here.

rml, a bit negative but seems to have come around to seeing other's points of view.

djon, cranky, self righteous and feels the need to teach others a lesson.

joe, amazed at how this crap can grow & prosper
 
copake_ham said:
Although undoubtedly taken with a DSLR, the Reuters photographer Andrees Latif scored a real coup in the "serious" print media today. His (her?) evocative photo of the commeration of the first anniversary of the tsunami tragedy taken in Khao Lak, Thailand managed to make it in very large (approx. 7 x 10.5 inches) size on the front pages of both the New York Times and the US edition of the Financial Times (London).

Quite a career highlight for a photographer!!

I have no connection to this photographer but thought this was worth noting.

George, is this the photo?

1khaolak.jpg


source: http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/arkiv/korttidsarkiv/0,3683,nyheter_0512_25,00.html
 
RJBender said:

No.

Actually, what is ironic is that it was taken at night on the beach using available light (AL). Isn't AL one of the RF "mantras"?

In fact, the available light was from many candles that were being lit under paper "hot air" balloons which then took flight.

So you had in the foreground people lighting fires under these "balloons" (and thus, illiuminated by them) while aloft, in an otherwise totally black sky you saw a mass of "firefly-like" flames being carried aloft by the "balloons".

Apparently they lit and sent aloft 5000 of these - approx, one for each person killed in the immediate area.

What was special to me was that it was a pic taken with the AL of the candles - as if one was in a cathedral - although, in this case the "cathedral" was all of the sky!

There was posted on the NYT website a similar photog taken by a different PJ from a side angle to the one that was published. Maybe I should have posted that link - but I didn't think doing so would be fair to either PJ.

Heck - earlier in the day - to me it was just the amazing sight of two major, super-serious, non-chain, independent, newspapers having the same pic on the front page in a size that was all out of proportion to pics they normally put there.

And, as I'm told about broadsheet newpapers - the key was not just the size but that, obviously, it was "above the fold" (i.e. so all could see it on a new rack).

There are (and have been) tons of evocative pics from the tsunami (and Katrina etc. over the past year or so). What makes this one "special" is that it "caught the eye" of two "picky" editors from two, very different and totally independent world class newspapers.

And that's the way it is this ..... 😉
 
Okay, please forgive the fact that this is just a "clip" from the front page of the newspaper.

And please also forgive that it is just a scan from my "super cheapo" flatbed scanner which is older than some of the folks who post here.

And, further, please forgive if I once again "blow it" in tring to upload an image.

But if everything "works" - here, in its less than "pristine" form is the notorious picture from the frontpage of the NYT and FT that I first mentioned:
 
Wow - it "worked"!

Now, say a prayer or hold a silent moment for the victims and then ask yourselves - why the angst over this thread today?

P.S. Not to be the "mad scientist" but I could help but do a PS "auto adjust" to see what it did to the pic...
 
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