OT: Question on Event Photography Pricing

[bmattock]

I've recently been asked to submit a bid for doing First Communion photography at the local Catholic Church. Apparently, the local feeling is that the existing photographer has been gouging, and they want lower prices. From asking, I am hearing that the practice has been to not charge to photograph the event - just charge a per-print fee. Prices are roughly 8x12=$13, 8x10=$10, 5x7=$6, 4x6=$5. I thought these prices sounded pretty reasonable, since they include processing, printing, and the time of the photographer to both take and process the prints (or have them done).

I told my contact person this, and the response was that the feeling of the community was if the prices didn't come down, they would stop hiring a photographer altogether and go to disposable cameras carried by guests and relatives.

I'm being heavily leaned on because I'm Catholic and will presumably 'respect' the tradition and and so that the money stays 'part of the community', which I sincerely appreciate, but I am not so certain that they're not asking too much. I am told that the average FC results in orders of 50 or so prints by various parties - their feeling is that this is 'enough money' for a photograper to make on a FC deal. Not that it should make a difference, but this is a community within the church that typically does not have much in the way of income.

Any thoughts, pros? Am I asking for trouble to commit to prices lower than these?

I appreciate any thoughts in this area, particularly from those who have this type of experience.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[Wayne R. Scott]

Don't do it Bill.

I wouldn't even open my camera bag for those kinds of prices.

Wayne

 

[bmattock]

Don't do it Bill.

I wouldn't even open my camera bag for those kinds of prices.

Wayne

I was kind of getting that feeling myself. Seems really, really low already. When I mentioned that to my contact, he expressed real disappointment - he thinks those prices are rip-off high. Some kind of disconnect here, or I'm not getting the full story.

Good to hear that from someone who has done it - thanks!

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[yossarian]

Bill, isn't it amazing--any clown with a camera is considered a professional, so how is
one with genuine ability going to make a living? I might consider a reduction in the
4x6 prints, but know this: the approximate costs to your lab are as follows:

4x6--10c
5x7--20c
8x10/1x12--35c

In 1993 I got talked into photographing the Miss Florida Pageant. I hired another
photographer, and what killed me was we shot 127 rolls of film in seven days. If you
plan to do this digitally, you'll have a huge leg up on me there. I'm not sorry I took
the job--it was great experience. And I got to be friends with the previous year's
Miss America, Leanza Cornett (she looks like Natalie Wood). But, in the final analysis,
I lost my ass on that job, and I swore I'd never do anything like that again. To quote
Drew Barrymore: "Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt".

Fred

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

Perhaps they're looking for someone to "offer" their photo services and only charge on a "as needed" basis (i.e. only the photos they charge). Kind of like having a CD, but only paying for the song they like. Not looking at the production costs, labor, experience, etc. That's how I'm interpreting their request.

 

[Socke]

$500 sounds like a lot of money but on the other hand it takes you two days to shoot, develop, select and print.
You need proofs to show to those who might buy a print and you'll take the risk of not selling at all.
Then there is wear on your equipment, you need transportation etc.pp.

No, that doesn't sound tempting to me.

 

[Scarpia]

Bill, remember it is not you who has taken a vow of poverty. Explaining your costs to your contact might help as he /she may be totally unaware of what is involved. Explain that a "pro" is paid for their time, labor and skill and that the time put in photographing and processing could well be devoted to another photo project for which you would be properly paid.
Best wishes, Kurt M.

 

[zuikologist]

Bill, remember it is not you who has taken a vow of poverty. Explaining your costs to your contact might help as he /she may be totally unaware of what is involved. Explain that a "pro" is paid for their time, labor and skill and that the time put in photographing and processing could well be devoted to another photo project for which you would be properly paid.
Best wishes, Kurt M.

I think explaining the costs to your contact might be helpful, but the congregation is comparing the pro print prices to the cost of developing and printing at the local Walmart. They also see $500 as a lot for an hour or two of work (forgetting of course it takes two days to set up, shoot, develop, print etc).

Perhaps allow both the disposables and the pro photogrpaher for a couple of communion services and compare the results. Hopefully the community will get the message.

 

[Brad Bireley]

I do "school portraits" same lighting, background,. etc for a minimum purchase for $10.00.
I pay $1.50 per unit(8x10) from my lab. You can $1.50 units from many different labs. My lab(Lustre Color) has a $40.00 minimum order per job. At $1.50 per unit there is still room to drop the price down from $10.00. Even if you dropped down to $7.50 per unit & sold 50 units you still would come out with $300 roughly. Now this is shooting with a digital camera.

 

[remrf]

Bill, I'm with the others who recommend that you pass on the deal. Those in the church who are arguing for lower prices have no idea what is involved in producing professional results consistantly for a large group . Perhaps after they shoot the event themselves and see all of the possible ways there are to fail they will understand why a pro won't do it for the price they would prefer.

 

[Fitz]

Wow. Suggest that they shoot with a point and shoot digital camera and make prints on their desktop inkjet printer. After disappointing the parents and the relatives with the quality, and complaining to the volunteer camera and printer owner, they may make re-think their comments.

Quality has a cost which as the saying goes you get what you pay for.

-Fitz

 

[Chaser]

YOu also have to factor in that 50 or so prints may be 48 - 4x6 and 2 - 8x10 in which case you would only gross $260...

 

[Brad Bireley]

You beat me to it RJBender . I was just going to mention what other work could come from this.
One thing that we do is if there is a family that has a financial problem we will just give them the minimum package. Especially when doing sports team photos. We always use a pre pay system, so you have all these kids getting their photos taken & you'll notice that a kid will have his/her photo taken & not buy anything. Then we'll ask the coach if the family struggles financially. If so we just order the package for them.

Bill go with what your heart says!

 

[Wayne R. Scott]

Bill,

Let's say that I am the photographer that is currently working with the church (which I am not). I have given them a very good price on the photos, thinking that I would get some more work from them. Then you come along and low ball my work thinking you will get some work from them. I no longer have a potential source for income and you may or may not have a source for $150 wedding packages.

If you heart tells you that this is the thing to do, (or your head says, hey I could use the practise) go for it.

As for me, (I am probably a little conceicted), I don't need the practise anymore, but I do need to be rewarded for my expertise. I will venture to guess that 50 orders is a very high number to shoot for if they are of limited income.

I think that if you want to become successful as a professional photographer you need to "fish" in the right lakes. I doubt very seriously that someone wishing to catch a Marlin would go fishing in an Iowa farm pond unless they wanted Bluegill!

Wayne

 

[bmattock]

Sorry for the delay in responding, guys. I was out shooting a rehearsal for a play that the a local group is putting on later this month. Just got back and am scanning the film I shot yesterday.

You've given me a lot to think about. Yes, my contact has said that he wants one 'official' photographer whom they call for everything, someone whom they can trust. Weddings, First Communions, Quinceneiros (very big with this community), and so on. They even hire photographers to do family reunions around these parts.

Do I want the work? Sure! But I don't want to work like a dog for peanuts. The community is poor, though - I don't want to rip anyone off. These are migrant workers, mostly. My wife said something though - as some of you were saying - she mentioned that they'll spend hundreds on dresses and suits, pay to have visitors from out of town come in and stay at motels, put on a big feed afterwards - and the only thing they have left at the end of it is a cross around a little girl's neck and some photos. And for this they want to spend a buck fifty? She's a smart one, that woman.

So, I'm trying to digest the good advice ya'll have given. Thanks!

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[Brad Bireley]

By no means did I mean to give it away. Say I can make $200 for 4-5 hrs of work, I 'll take it!

And I like to fish for both bluegills & marlin 😉

 

[dcsang]

Whoa.. quite a conundrum.. I've been lucky since I'm not known amongst my congregation as a photographer (even though I do shoot weddings and events and have a part time business doing so).

I wouldn't know where to begin - part of me would want to appease my parish's community and drop prices but at the same time I know that some of the congregation might feel that they can take liberty at crtiicizing the photos I took, even though it's a service that I was offering and not really being compensated for (but I'm guessing that the congregation wouldn't know that). The other part of me feels like I would charge a standard rate of $100 /hour - but for the church (I'm Catholic too) I'd drop it to like $50/hour or maybe do it for "nada" as penance or a form of "alms giving"... but that's me.. it's quite a predicament Bill... and I don't know about you.. but I have got the DSLR that makes me think it's not that big a deal on my part.. of course many full time photographers would probably like to cut me to pieces for saying something like this....

Dave

 

[Wayne R. Scott]

.. of course many full time photographers would probably like to cut me to pieces for saying something like this....

Dave

Dave,

I would never do that, mainly because I never bring a knife to a gunfight 🙂

Wayne

 

[bmattock]

Hehehe, settle down, youse guys! Hey, I'm usually the one people are telling to settle down! Whattya know.

Anyway, I am just digesting all this. I have to come up with some kind of a response. On the one hand, if I tell my contact that I can't beat the current price, I definitely will not get the business - and I'd guess I can hang up any future business through this guy as well. On the other hand, promises of future business if I'll just eat a warm soft one today don't sound that appealing - and I suspect I'd get myself locked into a position of "Well, you did it for X dollars for my cousin's wife's brother's uncle, and why should I pay more?" Frustrating.

And no, I don't want to cut the legs out from under a fellow photographer - pro or not. It seems that the community is ready to make that move, though - they have expressed their dissatisfaction with her - I don't think I had anything to do with that.

And I'm not sure where the $500 amount came from. I'm looking at maybe $75 to $100 profit for the entire gig. Sound like good money? Sure, but remember, you've just earmarked your entire day for that two-hour photo shoot. You won't be shooting any other gigs that day. So that's the profit for the day, regardless of how many hours it takes. You can't get there from here - can't just divide your total take by the hours it takes to do the shoot. That only works if you can go from shoot to shoot all day long. Otherwise, that's your day rate you just earned.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[Wayne R. Scott]

And no, I don't want to cut the legs out from under a fellow photographer - pro or not. It seems that the community is ready to make that move, though - they have expressed their dissatisfaction with her - I don't think I had anything to do with that.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

Bill,

My main point with regard to the other photographer is that the client is showing no loyalty and may not show loyalty to you either.

I suspect that money is not the real issue. The previous photographer may have done poor work, or perhaps broke wind at an inopportune time, or was seen winking at some ones spouse.

If you feel obligated to help your church, work out a pricing schedule that you are comfortable with (Iwould not go lower than what they are currently paying) and present it to them. If they accept it don't eat beans before the shoot and don't wink at any body, male or female.

Wayne