julianphotoart
No likey digital-phooey
OT, but otherwise camera-related.
I hope I have the terminology correct. Most Nikon film bodies have the tab around the lens throat that "indexes" the lens to the body for light-metering purposes. I looked on-line but could not find info about which Nikon DSLR bodies, if any, have the same indexing tab. So, in other words, which Nikon DSLR bodies will meter wide-open with older Ai and Ai-S lenses?
My wife wants to drag me kicking and screaming into getting a DSLR. Canon 5D is too much money so luckily that's off the table. Pentax/Samsung seems stuck on kind-of-old sensor technology. I have zero Minolta/Sony lenses. 4/3 sensor just seems sooooo small. Nikon is the last alternative. The D200 seems kind of nice. I have lots of manual-focus Nikon lenses and if the D200 body doesn't have the indexing tab I have an argument not to get one.
I hope I have the terminology correct. Most Nikon film bodies have the tab around the lens throat that "indexes" the lens to the body for light-metering purposes. I looked on-line but could not find info about which Nikon DSLR bodies, if any, have the same indexing tab. So, in other words, which Nikon DSLR bodies will meter wide-open with older Ai and Ai-S lenses?
My wife wants to drag me kicking and screaming into getting a DSLR. Canon 5D is too much money so luckily that's off the table. Pentax/Samsung seems stuck on kind-of-old sensor technology. I have zero Minolta/Sony lenses. 4/3 sensor just seems sooooo small. Nikon is the last alternative. The D200 seems kind of nice. I have lots of manual-focus Nikon lenses and if the D200 body doesn't have the indexing tab I have an argument not to get one.
Warren T.
Well-known
Hi Julian,
I believe the following Nikon dslr's will meter with AI or AI-S:
D1, D1x, D2H, D2Hs, D2x, D200
I use a D100 that will not meter with ai or ais lenses, but will mount them, so I happily use my old, smooth focusing mf, ai and ais lense on that body. We don't need no stinkin meters
If your wife wants you to get a dslr, then by all means, accomodate her and get one
Warren
I believe the following Nikon dslr's will meter with AI or AI-S:
D1, D1x, D2H, D2Hs, D2x, D200
I use a D100 that will not meter with ai or ais lenses, but will mount them, so I happily use my old, smooth focusing mf, ai and ais lense on that body. We don't need no stinkin meters
If your wife wants you to get a dslr, then by all means, accomodate her and get one
Warren
RObert Budding
D'oh!
You can have non-AI lenses converted for very little money - something around $25. And then they'll work on the D200.
Athena
Well-known
julianphotoart said:
I am a long time Nikon film SLR user with a number of both manual and AF bodies and various lenses through the entire line from pre-AI to AI and AIS etc. I also have a couple of Nikon DSLRs.
I consider the film SLRs and the DSLRs to be two very independent systems - even though there are some lens crossover opportunities (particularly b/w late-model film SLRs and DSLRs).
So, I'm not sure why you would want to use AI/AIS lenses with a Nikon DSLR and expect to maintain matrimonial harmony, much less take good images.
Firstly, Nikon DSLRs are designed to use AF lenses, and espescially current versions. There are "cheapies" (e.g. the G-series) and then there are present-day versions of high-end classic AFs (both primes and zooms).
Yes, you can mount AI/AIS lenses on the DSLRs (they all use the F-mount) and perhaps "convert" some over - but why?
It sounds as if you wife wants the DSLR and she probably just wants to use it as a very high end P&S - that is - with an AF zoom lens and the camera set on auto mode.
You'd be better off to just accept that and purchase say a, D200 and "splurge" on a good mid-range AF lens - perhaps even with VR (vibration reduction).
She will continue to love you and you will likely "steal" the camera for a while to satisfy your own "digital jones".
BTW: I still prefer film but having a late-model film SLR (e.g. a F5 or F6) means I can ensure modern lens compatibility. Then, I pull out my classics (e.g. F3HP) when I want to take "real" pictures with my AI/AIS lenses!
Warren T.
Well-known
Athena said:I am a long time Nikon film SLR user with a number of both manual and AF bodies and various lenses through the entire line from pre-AI to AI and AIS etc. I also have a couple of Nikon DSLRs.
I consider the film SLRs and the DSLRs to be two very independent systems - even though there are some lens crossover opportunities (particularly b/w late-model film SLRs and DSLRs).
So, I'm not sure why you would want to use AI/AIS lenses with a Nikon DSLR and expect to maintain matrimonial harmony, much less take good images.
Firstly, Nikon DSLRs are designed to use AF lenses, and espescially current versions. There are "cheapies" (e.g. the G-series) and then there are present-day versions of high-end classic AFs (both primes and zooms).
Yes, you can mount AI/AIS lenses on the DSLRs (they all use the F-mount) and perhaps "convert" some over - but why?
It sounds as if you wife wants the DSLR and she probably just wants to use it as a very high end P&S - that is - with an AF zoom lens and the camera set on auto mode.
You'd be better off to just accept that and purchase say a, D200 and "splurge" on a good mid-range AF lens - perhaps even with VR (vibration reduction).
She will continue to love you and you will likely "steal" the camera for a while to satisfy your own "digital jones".
BTW: I still prefer film but having a late-model film SLR (e.g. a F5 or F6) means I can ensure modern lens compatibility. Then, I pull out my classics (e.g. F3HP) when I want to take "real" pictures with my AI/AIS lenses!
I am also a long time (35 years) Nikon film slr user and I still own and use F2, F2s, F3hp, and F4/F4s along with a slew of mf (non-ai, ai, and ais) and af primes and zoom lenses. I ended my Nikon film body purchases with the F4 (no F5 or F6 for me). I consider my D100 dslr a part of one system (not two independent systems) that includes using ai or ais lenses that are not available in AF versions. It is entirely possible to take superb images with older mf, ai or ais lenses on dslr bodies. This does not mean that I always use my mf lenses on the dslr, but it is really nice when I feel like using the classic Nikkor 105mm f2.5 ais on my dslr, I can.
--Warren
JonasYip
Well-known
Athena said:
I don't think of them as different systems at all, and use the same lenses on any of the cameras. My default lenses for the D2x tend to be manual focus primes: 24/2 AIS, 50/1.4, 35/2, 135/2.8... although I do have the big AFS zooms for when I need them.
There are plenty of reasons to use the older MF lenses, like the focusing action (smooth, with some resistance, instead of all loose and wobbly), or the fact that some lenses aren't available in AF form (35/1.4, the 28PC, etc). So it's nice to have body that meters with them.
In my case I also shoot with various homemade lenses, or random lenses with hacked together adapters, and it's nice that the camera will meter with anything mounted to it, or even nothing at all...
j
Lonely Driver
Established
Athena said:I am a long time Nikon film SLR user with a number of both manual and AF bodies and various lenses through the entire line from pre-AI to AI and AIS etc. I also have a couple of Nikon DSLRs.
I consider the film SLRs and the DSLRs to be two very independent systems - even though there are some lens crossover opportunities (particularly b/w late-model film SLRs and DSLRs).
So, I'm not sure why you would want to use AI/AIS lenses with a Nikon DSLR and expect to maintain matrimonial harmony, much less take good images.
Firstly, Nikon DSLRs are designed to use AF lenses, and espescially current versions. There are "cheapies" (e.g. the G-series) and then there are present-day versions of high-end classic AFs (both primes and zooms).
Yes, you can mount AI/AIS lenses on the DSLRs (they all use the F-mount) and perhaps "convert" some over - but why?
It sounds as if you wife wants the DSLR and she probably just wants to use it as a very high end P&S - that is - with an AF zoom lens and the camera set on auto mode.
You'd be better off to just accept that and purchase say a, D200 and "splurge" on a good mid-range AF lens - perhaps even with VR (vibration reduction).
She will continue to love you and you will likely "steal" the camera for a while to satisfy your own "digital jones".
BTW: I still prefer film but having a late-model film SLR (e.g. a F5 or F6) means I can ensure modern lens compatibility. Then, I pull out my classics (e.g. F3HP) when I want to take "real" pictures with my AI/AIS lenses!
I ONLY use AIS lenses on my D200. Bokeh and lack of distortion is important to me. Autofocus and VR is not.
julianphotoart
No likey digital-phooey
Lonely Driver,
Given what you've just written, does that in fact mean that your D200 has the index tab and can meter wide-open with an AIS lens?
Given what you've just written, does that in fact mean that your D200 has the index tab and can meter wide-open with an AIS lens?
JonasYip
Well-known
julianphotoart said:
I'm not Lonely Driver, but yes, the D200 will meter wide open with AIS lenses. The first replier's list is correct (i.e. all flavors of D1 and D2, plus the D200)
j
Lonely Driver
Established
julianphotoart said:
Yeah, you have to "program" what the max aperature is for each lens and it meters perfectly. So if you put on a 105mm f2.5 (good choice!) you go though the menu, pick the 105mm lens, then select the 2.5 aperture. It doesn't take longer than 5 sec when you switch lenses, but you do have to remember to do it. The Nikons are also designed to remember your last selection, so the next time you select the 105mm the 2.5 is automatically highlighted.
JonasYip
Well-known
Lonely Driver said:
Although note that you only have to do this if you want matrix metering. You can slap anything on there and get spot or center-weighted metering.
j
fgb2
Established
Manual lens data entry also allows the camera to add lens focal length, max aperture & shooting aperture to the EXIF data as well as affecting flash functions.
I found it hard to focus fast MF lenses on the Nikon D200 screens and switched to a split image/microprism collar screen from Katz Eye Optics plus a DK-21M magnifying eyepiece which I find makes focussing much easier, more like an old Nikon F.
I found it hard to focus fast MF lenses on the Nikon D200 screens and switched to a split image/microprism collar screen from Katz Eye Optics plus a DK-21M magnifying eyepiece which I find makes focussing much easier, more like an old Nikon F.
Lonely Driver
Established
fgb2 said:
It's a little schizo, but the rangefinder confirmation light does work on the D200 (i.e. it lights up when something's in focus). (side note: The F4 and D2H confirmation light was much, MUCH better). I learned on a F2, but I used an H2 screen, so MF on the D200 works fine for me w/o any special focusing screens (I'm also addicted to the grid lines)
fgb2
Established
I like the grid lines too, but they are not built into the screen itself so can still be used with a 3rd party screen (including switching on & off through the menu as usual).
Lonely Driver
Established
fgb2 said:
Maybe I'll try it then. I didn't actually know the screens were interchangeable. Thanks!
julianphotoart
No likey digital-phooey
Thanks for your responses. I am now doomed to get the D200 I guess. As one follow-up though, here's one other thing I'm wondering. The one zoom I have is a second-hand 24-120 AF-D zoom. When I put it on my F3HP with standard prism the viewfinder image seems far dimmer than when I put it on my F4 with standard prism. Is this my imagination? Just wondering, since we're more-or-less on the subject. I think I'll throw in an image too. I'm really excited about just having gotten an old Nikon F plain prism. Looks so good. I suddenly started using the camera this past week-end since it's now seems so nimble.
Attachments
fgb2
Established
Lonely Driver said:
They aren't, according to Nikon. Katz Eye supplies instructions on how to do it yourself, it's not really much harder than on the other Nikon SLRs where the screen is changed through the lens mount (like the F100 or F6, as opposed to taking off the prism like the F). It took me a little while to get the screen in there properly, and if you don't want to do it yourself, they will do it for you for a price.
When I put it on my F3HP with standard prism the viewfinder image seems far dimmer than when I put it on my F4 with standard prism.
I haven't used those two cameras, but after you have been used to the F + 50/1.2 the D200 viewfinder will definitely seem small and a little dim. With the magnifying eyepiece it looks better to me than without, and at any rate the D200 viewfinder is much bigger and brighter than the D50 or D70. I haven't tried the newer more-affordable models (D40, D80).
Lonely Driver
Established
julianphotoart said:
I'm an F2 fan myself - love it.
I don't know if "doomed to get a D200" sounds fair. I liked the handling of the D2H better, but the D200 is a lot smaller and lighter AND produces much better images. I like my D200, but my needs may be different than yours.
I don't think your F3/F4 thing is your imagination even though the screens are the same, the F3 does seem a bit brighter. I usually only shoot with fast primes, so the darkness thing rarely bothers me.
Lonely Driver
Established
fgb2 said:
How much is the Katz eye and does the Af still function with it? Any negatives at all with it?
Agreed with point 2 - the D200 finder is small and a little dim. I got used to it fast, but switching back to the F2 feels really luxurious.
Warren T.
Well-known
Julian,
when I have some time tomorrow, i'll get my F3HP and F4 out to see if I can make some subjective comparisons of viewfinder brightness.
Warren
when I have some time tomorrow, i'll get my F3HP and F4 out to see if I can make some subjective comparisons of viewfinder brightness
.Warren