brian steinberger
Established
I sent my beloved Bronica RF645 to KEH for a CLA and received it back today with a note saying that some gear assemblies need to be replaced inside and that the parts are no longer available, sorry. Well the gear assembly for resetting the window counter after a roll is finished is what needs replaced. But a few flicks on the winding lever will reset the window. SO, the camera still functions, but this has me extremely scared. How much longer will this camera last until it will not function anymore? When will Tamron stop supporting it? I'm assuming Tamron will have the parts to fix it? What happens when they don't service Bronica stuff anymore? What about all our cameras? Film cameras were built to last because the film got better, the camera didn't have to. In these digital days cameras only need to last a few years then are replaced because technology moves so fast. But it seems parts and good technicians are dissapearing. I'd like my Bronica and my Mamiya 6's to last the rest of my life (I'm 30). But I highly doubt this will happen. Electronics fail, and these cameras weren't built super tough. I feel as if to keep shooting film I will need to invest in a Hasselblad or Mamiya RB67, something mecahnical that will always be able to be fixed. But SLR is not my style of shooting. I enjoy rangefinder shooting. My Mamiya 6's have had minor problems so far and were easily fixed. Plus Mamiya is still around and will still service their film cameras, but for how long??
This whole situation just has me scared. I'm thinking I should buy another RF645 to take some of the burden off the one I have. But if so, it will just be a paper weight a few years down the road when Tamron stops service and or parts aren't available. I guess it's all just a huge gamble then as to how long the camera will last.
Thoughts? Suggestions?
This whole situation just has me scared. I'm thinking I should buy another RF645 to take some of the burden off the one I have. But if so, it will just be a paper weight a few years down the road when Tamron stops service and or parts aren't available. I guess it's all just a huge gamble then as to how long the camera will last.
Thoughts? Suggestions?
Vickko
Veteran
For my mechanical cameras (e.g. Leica M4), I don't worry.
For my electronic cameras, e.g M9, Hasselblad 203FE, I worry but not a lot. One day they might die. I have mechanical backups.
Or the M9 / 203FE will be long obsoleted and something else will be available.
Vick
For my electronic cameras, e.g M9, Hasselblad 203FE, I worry but not a lot. One day they might die. I have mechanical backups.
Or the M9 / 203FE will be long obsoleted and something else will be available.
Vick
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
For mechanical Leica's we might run out of capable repair people in the foreseeable future.
A lot of Leica techs will retire in the next twenty years and if nobody steps up to fill the gap, we might be in for trouble.
Over a year ago I launched a thread on the issue but it died soon. Seems nobody worries and everybody's happy to leave their camera at a repair tech's place for months on end.
I've always wondered what will happen to my camera when somebody kicks the bucket while my payment has been sent and my camera hasn't been serviced yet? Will I even see it again?
A lot of Leica techs will retire in the next twenty years and if nobody steps up to fill the gap, we might be in for trouble.
Over a year ago I launched a thread on the issue but it died soon. Seems nobody worries and everybody's happy to leave their camera at a repair tech's place for months on end.
I've always wondered what will happen to my camera when somebody kicks the bucket while my payment has been sent and my camera hasn't been serviced yet? Will I even see it again?
Platinum RF
Well-known
I think they have stopped to support Mamiya 6.
boomguy57
Well-known
I'm not sure how old the most-used camera repair people are (e.g. DAG and Sherry Krauter) but once they are done repairing Leicas what will happen? I have no idea if one can even send old bodies to Leica to be serviced anymore--does anyone know?--and once the best people are finished doing it, then what?
I have wondered (and worried) about this quite a few times. I would hate to have my venerable M3 (or M6) sitting and staring at me from the shelf after something breaks and it can no longer be repaired.
I'm guessing this is a concern of others, particularly of the younger cohort of RFF. The OP mentioned he was 30, and I am 29 myself. Is it reasonable to expect that I will be able to shoot my film cameras for life? I don't think film will die, but once no one can fix old cameras, the market will surely plummet further than it already has. Or?
I have wondered (and worried) about this quite a few times. I would hate to have my venerable M3 (or M6) sitting and staring at me from the shelf after something breaks and it can no longer be repaired.
I'm guessing this is a concern of others, particularly of the younger cohort of RFF. The OP mentioned he was 30, and I am 29 myself. Is it reasonable to expect that I will be able to shoot my film cameras for life? I don't think film will die, but once no one can fix old cameras, the market will surely plummet further than it already has. Or?
brian steinberger
Established
Maybe they have, but if it's something minor they will still fix it. I guess it depends on parts being available. I sent mine to Bob at Precision Camera works, he had no problems finding parts. I know the winder assembly is the part most are worried about. I have 2 bodies so hopefully that will get me farther into the future.
brian steinberger
Established
EXACTLY my fear..
Vickko
Veteran
Hmmm. I see this like old cars. Mechanical cameras aren't rocket science, and are easily understood mechanisms. I am guessing that there are a decent number of techs out there that can easily move into camera adjustment and repair. Sure there are legends now, but there are also those who are skilled and not so "famous".
The issue is with dead electronics. Once they are dead, and replacement modules become scarce, you have pretty much a paperweight.
Vick
The issue is with dead electronics. Once they are dead, and replacement modules become scarce, you have pretty much a paperweight.
Vick
brian steinberger
Established
My problem was a gear assembly. What about those? Those are made unique to each and every camera. Once those parts dry up the camera is useless?
KoNickon
Nick Merritt
Wouldn't it be great if some community colleges taught camera repair? Not that this would necessarily enable one to earn a living by itself, but as part of a larger electronics repair business it could be a lucrative specialty.
Anyone on this forum who has been getting more and more into camera repair? It'd be nice to encourage the next generation.
Anyone on this forum who has been getting more and more into camera repair? It'd be nice to encourage the next generation.
Platinum RF
Well-known
Metal parts can be made in reasonable cost in China, electronic component is out of questions
enasniearth
Well-known
Repair
Repair
Well , a camera I really enjoyed using the Konica hexar rf , took Leica lenses .
Purchased it brand new ( first new camera purchase since 1970 -all the others were used )
Konica was bought by Minolta , Minolta was bought by Sony .
About two years old it shows error 11 , shutter motor
Parts not available - no support from Sony .
So last non manual film camera - back to the old stuff .
Repair
Well , a camera I really enjoyed using the Konica hexar rf , took Leica lenses .
Purchased it brand new ( first new camera purchase since 1970 -all the others were used )
Konica was bought by Minolta , Minolta was bought by Sony .
About two years old it shows error 11 , shutter motor
Parts not available - no support from Sony .
So last non manual film camera - back to the old stuff .
boomguy57
Well-known
I have often thought of trying to learn--though I am not really mechanically inclined, so teaching myself is out. If only I had the money to support myself through an internship with DAG...
Bob Michaels
nobody special
I read these threads that imply camera repair is some super duper high science thing that only two people in the world can do. Just not so. There are very many out there who do excellent work. And cameras are not so complex that one has to have specific training for each model.
There was a community college that taught camera repair, may still. I think it was in Washington state.
There are lots of parts out there, mostly in the form of parts cameras. Every repair tech seems to have their own stash and they supply each other when needed.
It was explained to me that electronic parts seldom fail. It is normally the ribbon cable connections which are repairable.
I sometime hang around a camera repair shop. The biggest problem I hear is that labor costs for a repair will cost $135 but the camera can be replaced for $75. That is where that stash of parts cameras come from.
So I am not worried in the least about either mechanical or electronic camera repairs in the future.
There was a community college that taught camera repair, may still. I think it was in Washington state.
There are lots of parts out there, mostly in the form of parts cameras. Every repair tech seems to have their own stash and they supply each other when needed.
It was explained to me that electronic parts seldom fail. It is normally the ribbon cable connections which are repairable.
I sometime hang around a camera repair shop. The biggest problem I hear is that labor costs for a repair will cost $135 but the camera can be replaced for $75. That is where that stash of parts cameras come from.
So I am not worried in the least about either mechanical or electronic camera repairs in the future.
kevin_v
Established
I'm rather young, but I'm not terribly worried about lack of repairability in the future. As mentioned mechanical cameras aren't quite rocket-science. They're complex, but I would suspect that a careful person with a repair manual and a bit of practice could figure most out. As far as parts (such as gears and springs and such), in theory, in the future, you'll be able to print them.
ColSebastianMoran
( IRL Richard Karash )
Mechanical is one thing. If you love your RF645 enough, you could have a new gear made. I suspect my Nikon F2, Mamiya Universal and C220 will be repairable forever.
High volume cameras are OK too. For your Yashica Electro, Nikon FE, FG, etc, there will always be a donor body available.
It's the lower volume hybrid cameras that are endangered. Hexar RF and AF, Contax RX, and maybe Leica CL for example. Donor body? I doubt it. And, as said above, you can't remake the electronics.
How about our modern lenses? Those with motors, VR gear, and electronics might not be repairable after manufacturer support ends.
High volume cameras are OK too. For your Yashica Electro, Nikon FE, FG, etc, there will always be a donor body available.
It's the lower volume hybrid cameras that are endangered. Hexar RF and AF, Contax RX, and maybe Leica CL for example. Donor body? I doubt it. And, as said above, you can't remake the electronics.
How about our modern lenses? Those with motors, VR gear, and electronics might not be repairable after manufacturer support ends.
brian steinberger
Established
Having parts made is possible yes, but how much money we talking to have something made?? It would be close to being worth more than the camera is worth, then you'd still have to have someone re-assemble. It would be too costly.
Harry Lime
Practitioner
I've given this some thought and made the decision to settle on gear from companies that will still service cameras for the foreseeable future.
I figure that Leica will service the M series and some of the R bodies as long as they are in business. Private shops should also be able to service these cameras for the foreseeable future, as there are several decades worth of spare parts floating around. Leica shooters and collectors are quite dedicated (fanatical?) and willing to put up the money to have their gear serviced.
Hasselblad will probably repair their film bodies and lenses for a very, very long time.
You can still get the F3, F4, F5, F100, F6, FM2, FM3a serviced by Nikon. If you're in the UK be cautious, because the main authorized repair center may not take your film body repair all that serious. The staff seems to consider film shooters to be either dinosaurs or amateurs. I had two terrible experiences with them. No such problem with Nikon in Munich, Germany. Go, figure.
I'm pretty sure that Rollei will service the major Rolleiflex models and 6xxx series for as long as they are in business. Two years ago they did a full rebuild on my 2.8GX that was dropped in London.
I'm not sure what they story is with Mamiya, but there have to be an awful lot of digital backs out there attached to RB / RZ bodies, not to mention the 645 series.
If you're shooting LF maybe Linhof is the way to go. But then again there really isn't a whole lot in a LF camera that can't be serviced by someone with reasonable mechanical skills...
I figure that Leica will service the M series and some of the R bodies as long as they are in business. Private shops should also be able to service these cameras for the foreseeable future, as there are several decades worth of spare parts floating around. Leica shooters and collectors are quite dedicated (fanatical?) and willing to put up the money to have their gear serviced.
Hasselblad will probably repair their film bodies and lenses for a very, very long time.
You can still get the F3, F4, F5, F100, F6, FM2, FM3a serviced by Nikon. If you're in the UK be cautious, because the main authorized repair center may not take your film body repair all that serious. The staff seems to consider film shooters to be either dinosaurs or amateurs. I had two terrible experiences with them. No such problem with Nikon in Munich, Germany. Go, figure.
I'm pretty sure that Rollei will service the major Rolleiflex models and 6xxx series for as long as they are in business. Two years ago they did a full rebuild on my 2.8GX that was dropped in London.
I'm not sure what they story is with Mamiya, but there have to be an awful lot of digital backs out there attached to RB / RZ bodies, not to mention the 645 series.
If you're shooting LF maybe Linhof is the way to go. But then again there really isn't a whole lot in a LF camera that can't be serviced by someone with reasonable mechanical skills...
Harry Lime
Practitioner
I would like to add that parts is only part of the equation.
The other two are training and the proper tools.
Obviously factory training is the best, but if you can read a service manual and have high mechanical skills you should be able to execute a repair.
The proper tools are a different story. In addition to the standard things like screw drivers, optical bench etc. there are an awful lot of custom tools, jigs, alignment devices etc. that can only be purchased from the manufacturer. Without these items servicing a camera becomes a lot more complicated.
The other two are training and the proper tools.
Obviously factory training is the best, but if you can read a service manual and have high mechanical skills you should be able to execute a repair.
The proper tools are a different story. In addition to the standard things like screw drivers, optical bench etc. there are an awful lot of custom tools, jigs, alignment devices etc. that can only be purchased from the manufacturer. Without these items servicing a camera becomes a lot more complicated.