fidget
Lemon magnet
...most of mine seem to be 'insiders' with me the one on the outside. Not sure what, if anything, that may say.
Fabulous expression on his face, it really makes the shot.
Well caught, or provoked!
Dave
Outsiders
- Thread starter lawrence
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Fabulous expression on his face, it really makes the shot.
Well caught, or provoked!
Dave
airfrogusmc
Veteran
rhl-oregon
Cameras Guitars Wonders
Speaking to the critiques:
I can be responsible for no one else's interpretation of other images here, but an explain my own contributions. The first, a disabled young man in a permanent wheelchair with his attendant scouting out the street crossing in a very crowded market, attracted me for its intimacy and the sense that they are virtually a compound being. But yes, they invited stares from those who surrounded them who were not disabled, not tatted, not struggling with motor/muscle control.
The second man is a severely crippled Jamaican junkie in San Francisco. Possibly part of a begging syndicate, and paying most of his take to a dealer to keep him out of pain. He was hitting me up for money. I offered him money for breakfast to pose for me, and he posed with aplomb and tremendous dignity. When he saw me an hour later, he sought more cash, because what I had given him had been taken from him either as tribute or by force by stronger panhandlers.
Those are the thumbnail stories for my images.
The question about who is an outsider, and how, and why, is legitimate. The images are trying to apprehend these things. And a forum for visual discussion of a proposed subject should be able to evolve its idea at the visible level for more than a few hours without having to answer merely verbal charges about its still-improvisatory rule of engagement.
So why not contribute rather than scoff? William Blake comes to mind: The questioner, who sits so sly/Shall never know how to reply.
I can be responsible for no one else's interpretation of other images here, but an explain my own contributions. The first, a disabled young man in a permanent wheelchair with his attendant scouting out the street crossing in a very crowded market, attracted me for its intimacy and the sense that they are virtually a compound being. But yes, they invited stares from those who surrounded them who were not disabled, not tatted, not struggling with motor/muscle control.
The second man is a severely crippled Jamaican junkie in San Francisco. Possibly part of a begging syndicate, and paying most of his take to a dealer to keep him out of pain. He was hitting me up for money. I offered him money for breakfast to pose for me, and he posed with aplomb and tremendous dignity. When he saw me an hour later, he sought more cash, because what I had given him had been taken from him either as tribute or by force by stronger panhandlers.
Those are the thumbnail stories for my images.
The question about who is an outsider, and how, and why, is legitimate. The images are trying to apprehend these things. And a forum for visual discussion of a proposed subject should be able to evolve its idea at the visible level for more than a few hours without having to answer merely verbal charges about its still-improvisatory rule of engagement.
So why not contribute rather than scoff? William Blake comes to mind: The questioner, who sits so sly/Shall never know how to reply.
S
squareshooter
Guest
For example
taskoni
Well-known
Very nice shots Helen!
Here's one of mine:
Regards,
Boris
Here's one of mine:
Regards,
Boris
back alley
IMAGES
danielsterno
making soup from mud
BTW: I am a virgin RFF poster until now- be kind.Ive been a daily reader of forum & fan of everyone's work in the Gallery for last year & this my first post here- from a new to me M6 purchased in Feb
airfrogusmc
Veteran
lawrence
Veteran
You assume that the term 'outsiders' is perjorative and that it only applies to one class of person. Many great artists, photographers, muscians etc. have been proud to call themselves outsiders. You may consider the photograph of a poor person looking in the window of an expensive restaurant as trite or compassionate, depending on your own prejudices.
Taipei-metro
Veteran
not a real baby! an outsider!
town of Ji-ji, Taiwan
town of Ji-ji, Taiwan
back alley
IMAGES
i love red sneakers!!
Taipei-metro
Veteran
Hahaha, like to have one of those too,
It'll match my camera bag colour!
BlackXList
Well-known
I find that the drive to exclude, or undermine the value of shots of people who appear to be somehow unfortunate, or to write these shots off as "exploitative" ends up with a sanitized view of the world through "acceptable" subject matter.
By "protecting" those people in this way, it ends up hiding them from view, and that bothers me.
Yes, it's possible to conduct yourself in an exploitative manner as a photographer, and that would be deeply distasteful, however I discount the idea that by taking somebody "unfortunate"'s photograph, you're necessarily exploiting them.
Sometimes those photographs, show viewers how disposable society can view those who fall outside it's norms as, and to me that's an entirely valid photograph. Equally some photographs show a great deal of character, and it can be a celebration of that, and sometimes the fact that a photograph of an "unfortunate" can make you think "this really could have been taken at any point in the last X years" and realise that our "progress" as societies is often very limited in who gets to benefit from it.
By "protecting" those people in this way, it ends up hiding them from view, and that bothers me.
Yes, it's possible to conduct yourself in an exploitative manner as a photographer, and that would be deeply distasteful, however I discount the idea that by taking somebody "unfortunate"'s photograph, you're necessarily exploiting them.
Sometimes those photographs, show viewers how disposable society can view those who fall outside it's norms as, and to me that's an entirely valid photograph. Equally some photographs show a great deal of character, and it can be a celebration of that, and sometimes the fact that a photograph of an "unfortunate" can make you think "this really could have been taken at any point in the last X years" and realise that our "progress" as societies is often very limited in who gets to benefit from it.
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furbs
Well-known
Really lovely idea & thread...
The Inimitable Frank Chu by ffurbss, on Flickr
Frank Chu, of 12 Galaxies fame. I see him around town a few times a week and always stop to chat. This one was with the F2 and 24/2.8 AIS.
The Inimitable Frank Chu by ffurbss, on Flickr
Frank Chu, of 12 Galaxies fame. I see him around town a few times a week and always stop to chat. This one was with the F2 and 24/2.8 AIS.
furbs
Well-known
North & Milwaukee? I recognize that corner...
airfrogusmc
Veteran
That's the place. Great area to work in.
MatthewThompson
Well-known
airfrogusmc
Veteran
The way I approach the subjects is up close and very personal. I have conversations with them and try to show them in a dignified light. I'm not taking them from a block away asleep on the pavement or digging through the garbage. This is a mirror to our society and we should all look at it hard because in any society you are only as strong as your weakest link. Some of these people are the ones that many want to sweep under the rug.
Thats my 2 cents.
I do think there is a fine line between making a dignified portrait of people that need to be seen and making images that are exploitive.
Thats my 2 cents.
I do think there is a fine line between making a dignified portrait of people that need to be seen and making images that are exploitive.
noisycheese
Normal(ish) Human
Hear, hear! Well said.
Photographing those who have less than we do is not somehow automatically exploiting them, as many try to claim these days.
airfrogusmc
Veteran
If its approached correctly its no more exploitive than Davidson's "East 100th St" or Arbus's work in the insane asylum or Walker Evan's, Dorothea Lange, etc.
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