Overcoming fear

I just had a conversation with an attornery ref. photographing people. He stated that while in a public space you have "no expectation of privacy". This is why papparazzi stand on public space and photograph their victims to and from destinations while in this public space.
 
A very on topic thread

A very on topic thread

Hell all,

This is a very good topic for us to be talking back and forth about. As it stands it would seem to me that there are many methods of street shooting. So of course anyone should feel free to try other peoples different techniques in order to find what works for himself.
I have spoken or rather exchanged posts with Mark the photographer who invited the original poster for some Milwaulkee street photography today.

Hello Mark!! Thanks for sending me the link to this thread.

Mark has given me some good ideas that I have seen repeated here. Shooting from the hip has been mentioned and is one of the more interesting methods. For myself I still use manual focus lenses on my cameras and I do have a preference for snapping the subject into focus while looking through my viewfinder. I shoot fast and then I'm done.


I feel I'm not all that experienced at street photography yet mostly because I live between two towns and they are nothing like a city. Meaning they are not at all overpopulated.

I really can't blend in at all while I'm out taking pictures because of the sparseity of people and I absolutly bring my camera with me every day and everywhere I go. I hold it in my hand without any strap.
I have noticed that there is way to much room on the sidewalks and that there are just a few people out and about going on their business. Mostly everyone drives into town and parks the car in a public parking lot and then walks the 100 or so feet to the store of intrest. There is not much walking about on the sidewalks of the town. So for me this environment is challanging.

If anyone has any experince in shooting in local's similar to what I have briefly described I would like to hear what you have come up with.
 
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I would approach this somewhat the way you are starting. First, by carrying your camera everywhere you go. This will get people used to seeing you with a camera. Over time, mowing lawns, raking leaves, painting fences, dogs going for a walk might become your street shots. Perhaps it’s someone fixing a car, offer to help, get to know them and then see if you can shoot. It’s a lot longer term engagement than walking down a street in the city, but it can be just as much fun. You need to look for shadows on lawns, cats crossing the street, bicycles and scooters. The big thing to do, as you live there is to share copies of your shots with folk (them or their house or what ever). Look for things out of the ordinary, challenge yourself to see a different view that anyone else has done. Perhaps it’s learning how the sun changes it’s lighting over the seasons and throughout the day and coming back for a shot when the sun is just right. You might try bars too. Use a table top tripod, a cable release and shoot some existing darkness. You need to know the bars and have an OK from the bartender, but it can be fun.

It will take some time for folks to look past your camera, but if you share your successes, and hang in there, they will.

B2 (;->
 
Peter55 said:
Hell all,

This is a very good topic for us to be talking back and forth about. As it stands it would seem to me that there are many methods of street shooting. So of course anyone should feel free to try other peoples different techniques in order to find what works for himself.
I have spoken or rather exchanged posts with Mark the photographer who invited the original poster for some Milwaulkee street photography today.

Hello Mark!! Thanks for sending me the link to this thread.

Mark has given me some good ideas that I have seen repeated here. Shooting from the hip has been mentioned and is one of the more interesting methods. For myself I still use manual focus lenses on my cameras and I do have a preference for snapping the subject into focus while looking through my viewfinder. I shoot fast and then I'm done.


I feel I'm not all that experienced at street photography yet mostly because I live between two towns and they are nothing like a city. Meaning they are not at all overpopulated.

I really can't blend in at all while I'm out taking pictures because of the sparseity of people and I absolutly bring my camera with me every day and everywhere I go. I hold it in my hand without any strap.
I have noticed that there is way to much room on the sidewalks and that there are just a few people out and about going on their business. Mostly everyone drives into town and parks the car in a public parking lot and then walks the 100 or so feet to the store of intrest. There is not much walking about on the sidewalks of the town. So for me this environment is challanging.

If anyone has any experince in shooting in local's similar to what I have briefly described I would like to hear what you have come up with.
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You know, this could be your approach. To people who live in huge cities this in itself can seem so strange, that a town has so few people to walk around it. In essential it sounds like you live near cities like my hometown. Practically ghost towns after 4-5pm downtown.
 
This is a great thread, its good to here different peoples approaches and mindsets in how we approach street photography.

I am usually a little nervous for about the first 10 mins everytime I go out and shoot street, this never seems to change. But I find what helps me is to shoot of a few frames of just anything really. They will probablay be nothing shots, but once I have put the camera to my eye in public a couple of times, I instantly become confident in what I am doing and continue on from there.

As quite a few people have already said its all about confidence. I make it quite known with my body language I belong, am very confident, and delibarate in what I am doing. When people see this more often than not it puts them at ease and says that you are not being sneaky or taking advatage of them. It also helps them forget you rather quickly so you become invisble. I never walk around with a big sign on my head, "I apologise for being here" as this makes people edgy and unrelaxed.

I have been using my Nikon F3 lately with 28mm and 50mm lenses. I don't have a 35mm rangefinder yet, but I honestly beleive that with confidence and the right body language you could do great street photography with a big pro body dslr if you wanted.
 
BillBingham2 said:
Down town LA as a ghost town after 5 when I was there some years back.

B2 (;->
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It still is.

After night fall it turns into 'Escape from New York'.

But it is getting better with all of the development going on.



HL
 
BillBingham2 said:
I would approach this somewhat the way you are starting. First, by carrying your camera everywhere you go. This will get people used to seeing you with a camera. Over time, mowing lawns, raking leaves, painting fences, dogs going for a walk might become your street shots. Perhaps it’s someone fixing a car, offer to help, get to know them and then see if you can shoot. It’s a lot longer term engagement than walking down a street in the city, but it can be just as much fun. You need to look for shadows on lawns, cats crossing the street, bicycles and scooters. The big thing to do, as you live there is to share copies of your shots with folk (them or their house or what ever). Look for things out of the ordinary, challenge yourself to see a different view that anyone else has done. Perhaps it’s learning how the sun changes it’s lighting over the seasons and throughout the day and coming back for a shot when the sun is just right. You might try bars too. Use a table top tripod, a cable release and shoot some existing darkness. You need to know the bars and have an OK from the bartender, but it can be fun.

It will take some time for folks to look past your camera, but if you share your successes, and hang in there, they will.

B2 (;->
Click to expand...

What to say after this words? I looooove street photography!


1-2.jpg
 
FrankS said:
I love that! I know exactly what Ruben means. Synthesis means "putting together".
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For those who have forgotten it, if there are at all, 'photosynthesis' is the process by which the vegetal world absorve and elaborate light for living.

But when I wrote it, , I indeed meant as Frank says, taking the best from all anwers and making your own path. But I was not aware of the photo double meaning here - what an irony !

:)

Cheers,
Ruben
 
I had a great time getting to know you, navilluspm, and shooting with you.

To the others here, I actually didn't do very much shooting. I think I was talking too much! Navilluspm saw and reacted to a couple good shots that I comepletely missed.

I have learned a lot from this thread since it was started. And I agree that we all might have different approaches. I might vary my approach with each given circumstance. I realize that there are times when shooting from the hip might be the only way you're going to get a particular shot. But my goal is to depend on that technique less and less, as I develope alternative approaches to obtaining the picture. For myself as a street photographer, I hope to develope more relationships with the regulars in the area.

Someone mentioned in an earlier post about shooting in the same area regularely. I think there's a lot of advantages to that. I spent the last 7 years shooting local wildlife, and as I learned more and more about the specific area I was shooting in, I began to learn the patterns of nature, so that my "take home pay" required less time than when I first began shooting wildlife. I think the same can be applied towards street photography. And just as certain animals would become accustomed to my presence over time, and learn that I wasn't a threat, I believe the same thing can happen if we approach street photography in a similar manner. From my own experience, some animals are best photographed without trying to hide from them. For example, hawks (and other birds of prey) have much better eyesight than we do. It's pointless trying to hide from one, because by the time you've even spotted him, he has probably been watching you much longer. And I've found that many times in those cases, if you do try to hide, and they lose a clear sight of where you are, they get uncomfortable. Funny how the same thing can be applied to street photography!

I am basically an introvert, so the thought of initiating conversation with a stranger frightens me! But I know that if I can get beyond the fear, there are endless possibilities to meet people and probably form some pretty great relationships.

I hope this thread goes on, and on, and on. Thank you, naviluspm,for having the courage to start it. I'm looking forward to shooting with you again.

I didn't get anything worth posting from our shoot together. But here's something that was on the same roll, that I had captured earlier in the week. I saw the guy reaching in his pocket, so I got ready. See the coin in mid-air? Is this what they call "the money shot"? :D
 

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Mark,
This is a nice photo. The money shot means the one your client is paying you to do and it will be a sure seller.

I saw this same image on the dp review forum and comented about the over exposure on the Sax mans shirt. Funny, because since I play the Altp Sax just like this man is doing, well, this was the focal point of the image for me. Yes I saw the other man flipping in the coin but I don't remember ever seeing the coin as I do here. LOL we just cannot control what the viewer will find most interesting and what gets his attention in our photographs.


marke said:
I had a great time getting to know you, navilluspm, and shooting with you.

To the others here, I actually didn't do very much shooting. I think I was talking too much! Navilluspm saw and reacted to a couple good shots that I comepletely missed.

I have learned a lot from this thread since it was started. And I agree that we all might have different approaches. I might vary my approach with each given circumstance. I realize that there are times when shooting from the hip might be the only way you're going to get a particular shot. But my goal is to depend on that technique less and less, as I develope alternative approaches to obtaining the picture. For myself as a street photographer, I hope to develope more relationships with the regulars in the area.

Someone mentioned in an earlier post about shooting in the same area regularely. I think there's a lot of advantages to that. I spent the last 7 years shooting local wildlife, and as I learned more and more about the specific area I was shooting in, I began to learn the patterns of nature, so that my "take home pay" required less time than when I first began shooting wildlife. I think the same can be applied towards street photography. And just as certain animals would become accustomed to my presence over time, and learn that I wasn't a threat, I believe the same thing can happen if we approach street photography in a similar manner. From my own experience, some animals are best photographed without trying to hide from them. For example, hawks (and other birds of prey) have much better eyesight than we do. It's pointless trying to hide from one, because by the time you've even spotted him, he has probably been watching you much longer. And I've found that many times in those cases, if you do try to hide, and they lose a clear sight of where you are, they get uncomfortable. Funny how the same thing can be applied to street photography!

I am basically an introvert, so the thought of initiating conversation with a stranger frightens me! But I know that if I can get beyond the fear, there are endless possibilities to meet people and probably form some pretty great relationships.

I hope this thread goes on, and on, and on. Thank you, naviluspm,for having the courage to start it. I'm looking forward to shooting with you again.

I didn't get anything worth posting from our shoot together. But here's something that was on the same roll, that I had captured earlier in the week. I saw the guy reaching in his pocket, so I got ready. See the coin in mid-air? Is this what they call "the money shot"? :D
Click to expand...
 
I like the idea of looking for the shadows

I like the idea of looking for the shadows

Hello Bill,
Thanks for a very good reply and the encouragement.
Like my title say's I like the idea of looking for the shadow's. This is my mission tommorrow.

BillBingham2 said:
I would approach this somewhat the way you are starting. First, by carrying your camera everywhere you go. This will get people used to seeing you with a camera. Over time, mowing lawns, raking leaves, painting fences, dogs going for a walk might become your street shots. Perhaps it’s someone fixing a car, offer to help, get to know them and then see if you can shoot. It’s a lot longer term engagement than walking down a street in the city, but it can be just as much fun. You need to look for shadows on lawns, cats crossing the street, bicycles and scooters. The big thing to do, as you live there is to share copies of your shots with folk (them or their house or what ever). Look for things out of the ordinary, challenge yourself to see a different view that anyone else has done. Perhaps it’s learning how the sun changes it’s lighting over the seasons and throughout the day and coming back for a shot when the sun is just right. You might try bars too. Use a table top tripod, a cable release and shoot some existing darkness. You need to know the bars and have an OK from the bartender, but it can be fun.

It will take some time for folks to look past your camera, but if you share your successes, and hang in there, they will.

B2 (;->
Click to expand...
 
Hi Peter.
I'm glad you've joined this thread. It's good to get perspectives on the topic from all walks of life.

Peter55 said:
Mark,
This is a nice photo. The money shot means the one your client is paying you to do and it will be a sure seller.
Click to expand...

Yes, I knew that.

Oh well, I never was very good at telling jokes.
 
A few anecdotes:

I was shooting the exterior front facade of an office building in Clayton, MO last year, on a weekend. A female security guard came out wanting to know if I had "permission" to take a picture. I explained that you don't need permission to photograph anything you can see while standing in a public area. She said, "OK, thank you" and went back inside.

Several years ago, I went down to the St. Louis riverfront to photograph a favorite bridge. It turned out that they were having a a big speechmaking event I didn't know about, on the Gateway Arch grounds. There were security people. Not security guards; they were more official than that. FBI, police--I don't remember. At any rate, they were stopping everybody to check them out. You had to wait in line. There I was, with my bag full of Hasselblad gear and a manfrotto 3221 tripod with a really big head on it. When my turn came, I opened the bag. They hardly glanced in it and waved me on. I walked down to the levy behind the grandstand, set up my tripod and camera, and aimed it at the bridge. I ignored the whoile speechmaking thing, and they ignored me for about a half-hour while I shot my pictures. So much for rumors of not being allowed to photograph bridges.

When photographing buildings, mostly storefronts, I can generally count on someone coming out to ask what I'm doing. I just explain I'm an amateur photographer who hopes to put together one of those coffee table books about places one sees while travelling. It's always well received. I have been shy about actually asking permission, but recently I decided to ask the owner of the Route 66 Antique Mall along highway 44 in Missouri, if she would like her store to be in my book. She said yes, and I got a shot of her behind her cash register to put in my book. Come to think of it, what small store owner wouldn't want a little free advertising?
 
Last spring, I had my own experience at the very same open air shopping mall that navilluspm mentioned in his first post. This mall has streets and sidewalks, and covers the area of several city blocks. It has parking meters for street parking.

I had photographed there a couple times before I was stopped by a security guard during my third or fourth shoot. She said I wasn't allowed to photograph there. I respectfully told her that I knew of my rights to photograph on the public streets. I also tried to respectfully mention that after 9-11, there have been many photographers confronted on this matter by well-meaning but improperly informed law-enforcement people. She asked if I'd like to talk with her supervisor. I said yes, and she radio-ed for him.

The supervisor told me basically the same thing, but he told me that it was legal to photograph people but not the buildings. We were discussing the issue of whether or not I was actually on public property or not. It seemed to me at this point, that even the security supervisor wasn't clear as to the laws and regulations of this area. During the whole conversation I was persistant but also expressed a clear understanding and respect for his responsibility. I have a feeling that no one had ever been this persistant with him on this matter before this. But he apparently appreciated my respect for his position, and comepletely understood why I saw this as a great place for street photography. So he gave me the name and phone number of the person in charge of the mall.

I never called this person, because shortly afterwards, I realized I had been on private property all along. The reason I've told this whole story is because this open air mall is designed to look EXACTLY like the public streets that are surrounding it's borders! It was deceiving to me. I also remember that my fiancee had rreceived a parking ticket a few weeks earlier,and the strange thing about it was that the ticket said the at the money went to a local charity, not to the local police department. That's the other thing that kind of maks you think it's public property, the local police department patrol these streets just like any other strets in the area. But what made t clear to me was when I was telling a friend about my incident with the security guards, he said, "Remember what was there before the those streets were built? It was a private parking lot."

I had then learned that things aren't always as they seem.

Anyway, here one I shot last February before that incident. Taken with my Panasonic Lumix LX2.

original.jpg



One of the other things that vavilluspm and I briefly discussed during our meeting, was how the public often sees a photographer differently when he's with another person. Before adding anything more to this post, I would like to hear from others on how their experiences diffred when they we with another person, be it male or female, photographer or non-photographer, etc.
 
marke said:
One of the other things that vavilluspm and I briefly discussed during our meeting, was how the public often sees a photographer differently when he's with another person. Before adding anything more to this post, I would like to hear from others on how their experiences diffred when they we with another person, be it male or female, photographer or non-photographer, etc.
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As I stated in my previous post I also like to stroll for photos with other friends that share the same hobby. Altough I may like to have someone that can eventually help me explaining the situation, right now I did not have any real problem nor alone nor with others (knock on wood!!!). Anyway, I remember (or at least the impression I had) that during the RFF meeting in Paris the people we were photographing were more interested than annoyed from that bunch of crazy photogs.
When it comes to kid I usually take photos if my girlfriend is near me, smiling and talking with me while I'm shooting: it makes things easier ...
 
Thanks, Joe. I remember reading that article.

THere's a video of him somewhere on the web, where someone followed Winogrand around as he shot and explained how he went about it. He had the ability to bring the camera up to his eye and back down again, before most of us even see the shot.
 
Very important thread!
When I slipped back into photography some years ago...I decided to confront my greatest fear: asking people. And magically for some month not even one of them declined.
Of course when I got to the point garb shot or miss it out of ethical reasoning I decided finally for getting the picture.
Thanks for posting the documentary on Mermelstein. After all the posts about self confident behaviour it's interesting to see that he has a rather furtive approach and style of moving around (hementions himslef that he's taking something from people). Which is not criticims on my part as the only intersting thing are the results.
But I do agree that the best thing is to feel no guilt as there is some animal instinct in most of us be they "primitive" or not that makes us aware of sombody who's afraid and who's going to intude our Zone of Exicstence..
 
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