Pan F and Pyro, Rodinal

[Daniel Unkefer]

I've shot a ton of 120 Pan-F in the past, I always processed it in PMK Pyro+.

Gordon Hutchings recommended Pan F in his Pyro book for 120 and 35mm shooting. I have never been personally disappointed in 25+ years, myself.

PMK is available in safe liquid form from Photographers' Formulary, and they even stock it at my local camera store. PMK Pyro has always been my developer of choice, pretty much regardless of what emulsion I am shooting, especially with a lower speed film like Pan F. The Pyro works wonders in the high values, which is where it -is- most important.

Kodak had a developer that was Pyro-based, they called it D-1. Quite a while before D-76🙄

It's also the most economical developer. A kit seems to last nearly forever.

-Dan, I just bought 1000' of the bulk 35mm Pan F from Freestyle.

 

[ray_g]

I have some Pan F, and will be giving it a try - I will definitely get some from Freestyle pending that. I saw the PMK Pyro from Photographer's formulary. Are you supposed to dispose of the used developer in a special way?

 

[Daniel Unkefer]

No, I've always just run it down the sink with some running water, and it's been fine. I do wear rubber gloves to avoid splashes of liquid getting on me, probably overkill, but Ive never had any problems or real concerns in this regard.

You will get 1/3-1/2 stop more speed out of Pan F if you add a tiny shot of AMIDOL. You can get this from Photographer's Formulary. Adding Amidol to PMK, turns it into PMK+. This is my prefered soup.

BTW the last step in Pyro processing (after fixing) is the Pyro after-bath. This after-bath allows the stain-level in the emulsion to build up, which occurs in the final washing. You save the used developer, and re-run it through the Pyro, after fixing.

-Dan, the staining qualities of Pyro is what makes the negatives processed this way so unique.

 

[Buze]

Is there some online tutorial on Pyro you would recommend ? I got some from Silverprint (powder, despite their website showing 2 bottled to illustrate it :/) but that afterbath is kinda new for me...

I'm a lot more comfortable mixing dangerous things now so I'm not too worried to make the concentrate, but I wonder about the processing differences...

Also, I've read that Pyro negs are sensitive to UV light; so using them for alt processes contact prints is out of the question ?

 

[Stephanie Brim]

I can't afford Amidol so I won't be doing it that way, but I can afford the large kit of PMK Pyro from PF...I may have to give it a try. I've always liked Rodinal with Pan-F...but trying something different couldn't hurt me.

 

[Daniel Unkefer]

I'm not under the impression that Pyro negatives fade, none of mine ever have, but I haven't exposed them to massive quantities of UV light, but I seriously doubt it😕 .

Don't know of any online tutorials, but if you order Gordon Hutchings book, THE BOOK OF PYRO, there is all the inside information you will need. I've also seen the book at the local library.

For a long time, I mixed my own PMK from bulk chemicals. It's really not difficult, and the stuff lasts FOREVER. Still have a BIG plastic bottle of Amidol from PF, it's a lifetime supply, really. I use a flat wooden toothpick to scoop out a tiny little bit to add, right before I dump in the developer. It's really not critical. It changes the developer color right away😛

I always go outside to mix the dry chemicals, just to be sure.

 

[Todd.Hanz]

Ray,
Jay De Fehr is the guy who created 510 pyro I think, he has an article here about it's benefits: http://www.digitaltruth.com/techdata/article-stainingdev.php

As far as I know, never having used PMK, the main differences are you can use the film at box speeds, no bromide drag (which causes streaking on your negs in certain circumstances), once mixed into it's final form it's alot like using HC110 or Rodinal. I use 510 with Acros and Pan F+ and get a light olive green stain on my negs, I scan only and do not wet print so I am not sure how the negs perform with traditional methods.

I tried it with Tri-X once and didn't care for the results.

The premixed PMK sounds like an easy and clean alternative though and would be nice way to try pyro.

good luck,
Todd

 

[Stephanie Brim]

1:1:100 seems to be the normal ratio...is that about right?

 

[Buze]

PMK is 1:2:100.

Also, the author of the PMK pyro no longer recommend the "after bath"; apparently it adds general stain to the neg, making it harder to expose when printing but doesn't add anything to the Dmax.

I developed my first 120 with PMK over the week-end; some pinhole Shanghai GP3 (yeah, chicken!). The stain is interesting !

There are 2 other formulas that sounds interesting : 510-pyro (one concentrate only only) and something called "Pextral" that is a pyro based compensating developer that requires /very/ short dev times for any film (2 minutes in bath A, 1 minute in bath B !)
Pextral is also extremely simple as a formulation, but I'm not sure how to mix it as a liquid concentrate for "normal" use. The B bath will not be storable, but the A one (containing the Pyro) needs to, I don't want to manipulate pyro powder casualy...

 

[pdx138]

Do people typically shoot Pan-F at box speed or do you rate it at 32 or even 25? I always shot it at box speed, but I just got another 500' of it and I'm wondering if I could get better results if I rate it slower.

I shot it a few times at 50, but then noticed when developing that the D-76 development times for shooting at 50 and 25 were the same, so I split the difference and now I shoot it at 30. It works fine at 50, but I like it at 30. I shoot Pan F for slow speed, so might as well shoot it really slow.

 

[Turtle]

I ran some pan F thru DiXactol ages back and it ended up very sharp with discreet crisp grain. Looked very good. I would not hesitate to try it in either a pyro dev (pyrocat HD for example) or Rodinal. I suspect that pyro will give finer grain in general than Rodinal where the grain will be more visible and you will either like it or you wont. Pyrocat HD should give very fine grain and good acutance even on 35mm. To me pyro negs are about glow....and Rodinal about sparkle if that makes any more sense.

 

[jdef]

Hello everyone.

510-Pyro is very different than PMK. 510-Pyro is compatible with all films, formats and development techniques, and makes a very good general purpose developer. If you're interested in more details, check out the 510-Pyro blog.

Jay