hamradio
Well-known
I was looking at dslr's today in my freetime, and came across the panasonic dmc l1. I love the style of it. I have a panasonic dmc fz18 p&s, and have been extremely satisfied with it. I'm thinking of buying a low-end dslr within the next 6 or so months. Choices are between the l1, d40, d80, 10d, 20d, or 30d. Stuff in the $500ish used price range.
Opinions on the l1? Seems like the sensor is smaller than other dslr's...how is the kit lens that comes with it? If it didn't look so cool, I probably would not be as interested in it.
Of all of the above choices, which would offer the best bang for the buck?
Opinions on the l1? Seems like the sensor is smaller than other dslr's...how is the kit lens that comes with it? If it didn't look so cool, I probably would not be as interested in it.
Of all of the above choices, which would offer the best bang for the buck?
hamradio
Well-known
Thanks!
One thing that bugs me heavily about my friend's rebel xti is that it is kind of a pain to change shutter speeds and f stop, compared to '70s era slr's. That is one thing that's been holding me back from buying a dslr; things aren't as smooth to operate, and the style of most bodies does not impress me. I like the old look of the l1. It is probably terrible to buy a camera just based on looks, though.
My favorite 35mm slr's are the minolta srt series...a nice solid feel, built like a tank, rokkor lenses are cheap, and bodies are cheap.
One thing that bugs me heavily about my friend's rebel xti is that it is kind of a pain to change shutter speeds and f stop, compared to '70s era slr's. That is one thing that's been holding me back from buying a dslr; things aren't as smooth to operate, and the style of most bodies does not impress me. I like the old look of the l1. It is probably terrible to buy a camera just based on looks, though.
My favorite 35mm slr's are the minolta srt series...a nice solid feel, built like a tank, rokkor lenses are cheap, and bodies are cheap.
JJW
Established
Anyone know of an L1 with lens 4 Sale?
Anyone know of an L1 with lens 4 Sale?
If anyone knows of an L1 for sale for that kind of change with the original Elmarit zoom kit lens, let me know.
I'd like to have a digital camera to try one out and find out what all the hoopla is about... in the meantime, I'm still running film through my M2!
Anyone know of an L1 with lens 4 Sale?
If anyone knows of an L1 for sale for that kind of change with the original Elmarit zoom kit lens, let me know.
I'd like to have a digital camera to try one out and find out what all the hoopla is about... in the meantime, I'm still running film through my M2!
kshapero
South Florida Man
I have a Pany L! with Leica Kit lens. Really great fun to use. I bought it as a refurb but never did the warranty. So it is brand new. also has the Katz Eye split rangefinder for the Nikon adapter that uses all Nikon glass including even pre AI(S) lenses. really cool.
swoop
Well-known
I have one and use it professionally. I bought it primarily as a backup to my M8, and to use for sports and product shots. Areas where rangefinders don't work too well.
I got mine as a refurb for $800 a few months ago. The lens alone is about $900 new even today. So if you find one it's a great deal. The camera can use ANY 4/3rds lens out there. There's a thumbwheel on the back that you use to select aperture. Where as the kit lens has the classic analog controls. It's fantastic to use a digital in such a way.
It has decent low light performance. I dare say better than the M8. But what camera doesn't. And don't worry about the small sensor. It barely makes a difference. The only complaint I have is that the viewfinder is a bit dim. it's not detrimental. But it gets annoying. Autofocus is more accurate than manual because of it. Also, the square format takes some getting used to when composing shots.
I got mine as a refurb for $800 a few months ago. The lens alone is about $900 new even today. So if you find one it's a great deal. The camera can use ANY 4/3rds lens out there. There's a thumbwheel on the back that you use to select aperture. Where as the kit lens has the classic analog controls. It's fantastic to use a digital in such a way.
It has decent low light performance. I dare say better than the M8. But what camera doesn't. And don't worry about the small sensor. It barely makes a difference. The only complaint I have is that the viewfinder is a bit dim. it's not detrimental. But it gets annoying. Autofocus is more accurate than manual because of it. Also, the square format takes some getting used to when composing shots.
kshapero
South Florida Man
Refurbs on Ebay under $630 with kit lens.
akptc
Shoot first, think later
Have you considered a Pentax? You can get a ist D or K100D Super for $250 - $350 or less and the choice of inexpensive quality lenses is astounding. You can even get a K10D with the kit lens for less than $500...
peterm1
Veteran
I would not really call the L1 "low end". In its day it was priced at the top end and had features to match (like a metal body shell, a top class lens, a uniquely designed and functional on camera flash and mulitple shooting modes.) But it is now quite low priced these days given the pace at which digitals lose value. However it is still a fine camera.
If you like using MF lenses on a digital body you will find that with suitable adapters (widely available in the internet) you can mount most SLR lenses on this camera.
The much quoted (on the internet) faults of this camera are way over stated and i suspect usually made by SLR shooters who have never held a rangefinder - which this feels like. The viewfinder may be sightly dim compared to some cameras but not so I have really noticed in use. If you have ever shot with a Leica screw mount camera you will laugh at some over stated claims that this camera has a small, dim finder. The lack of "ergonomics" is in line with an earlier type of camera and in fact in line with the design of leica Ms (although bigger). There is no big hand grip to fill a manly hand and yes you do have to move your index finger to press the button but so what! These types of complaints are mostly only partly informed or at the worst are blown out of proportion by wannabe critics who have almost certainly never picked up a rangefinder or an old camera of any sort, for that matter. (Dont take me as being cirtical of any of the posts in this thread incidentally as they are quite balanced by comparison with the ones I am speaking of.)
The only real problem I have had with this camera is that AF hunts in dim conditions. Thats about it really. The color is wonderful and mostly it captures nice sharp images.
Oh there is one other small niggle. If you shoot RAW the Panasonic RAW format does not appear to be widely supported and you may have to use the SilkyPix software that comes with the camera. The software works but is a little clunky and may mean you have to convert to JPG then load your JPG files into whatever image processor you have. (Someone else may correct me on this as I must admit that I do not use Photoshop much anymore - I have swapped to using Coral PhotoDraw which is more intuitive to use and speeds my post processing work, but does not seem to have a plugin for this camera's RAW. (Why do manufacturers not just use the Adobe RAW or settle on some other standard?)
If you like using MF lenses on a digital body you will find that with suitable adapters (widely available in the internet) you can mount most SLR lenses on this camera.
The much quoted (on the internet) faults of this camera are way over stated and i suspect usually made by SLR shooters who have never held a rangefinder - which this feels like. The viewfinder may be sightly dim compared to some cameras but not so I have really noticed in use. If you have ever shot with a Leica screw mount camera you will laugh at some over stated claims that this camera has a small, dim finder. The lack of "ergonomics" is in line with an earlier type of camera and in fact in line with the design of leica Ms (although bigger). There is no big hand grip to fill a manly hand and yes you do have to move your index finger to press the button but so what! These types of complaints are mostly only partly informed or at the worst are blown out of proportion by wannabe critics who have almost certainly never picked up a rangefinder or an old camera of any sort, for that matter. (Dont take me as being cirtical of any of the posts in this thread incidentally as they are quite balanced by comparison with the ones I am speaking of.)
The only real problem I have had with this camera is that AF hunts in dim conditions. Thats about it really. The color is wonderful and mostly it captures nice sharp images.
Oh there is one other small niggle. If you shoot RAW the Panasonic RAW format does not appear to be widely supported and you may have to use the SilkyPix software that comes with the camera. The software works but is a little clunky and may mean you have to convert to JPG then load your JPG files into whatever image processor you have. (Someone else may correct me on this as I must admit that I do not use Photoshop much anymore - I have swapped to using Coral PhotoDraw which is more intuitive to use and speeds my post processing work, but does not seem to have a plugin for this camera's RAW. (Why do manufacturers not just use the Adobe RAW or settle on some other standard?)
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pkreyenhop
Established
kuzano
Veteran
The Leica 14-50 kit lenses are selling for $500 alone.
The Leica 14-50 kit lenses are selling for $500 alone.
It's an image stabilized lens when used on the Panasonic body.
The L1 seems to have a strong loyal following, but is getting dated. Since it is the 4/3rds mount there are adaptors for various legacy lenses. The legacy lenses using the adaptors are manual focus and stop down metering for the most part, but that's one way to get fast primes on these cameras.
The down side is that the sensor size is half frame of 35mm, so the crop factor is 2X. That makes my Olympus Zuiko 50mm/1.4 lens a 100mm, and my 24mm Zuiko 2.8 lense a 48mm. I do get the advantage of wonderful bokeh and short DOF using the legacy lenses. There are adaptors on the 4/3rds format to use Nikon glass, Leica lenses, Minolta and various others.
The Leica 14-50 kit lenses are selling for $500 alone.
It's an image stabilized lens when used on the Panasonic body.
The L1 seems to have a strong loyal following, but is getting dated. Since it is the 4/3rds mount there are adaptors for various legacy lenses. The legacy lenses using the adaptors are manual focus and stop down metering for the most part, but that's one way to get fast primes on these cameras.
The down side is that the sensor size is half frame of 35mm, so the crop factor is 2X. That makes my Olympus Zuiko 50mm/1.4 lens a 100mm, and my 24mm Zuiko 2.8 lense a 48mm. I do get the advantage of wonderful bokeh and short DOF using the legacy lenses. There are adaptors on the 4/3rds format to use Nikon glass, Leica lenses, Minolta and various others.
mph
Member
I have mine for one year now. The only thing to consider about this tool is the small viewfinder and NOTHING else.
The picture quality can be compared with 10MP+ cameras!!!
The picture quality can be compared with 10MP+ cameras!!!
flessas
Member
Why don't you try the Panasonic G1, the new m4/3 camera.
There are some disussions in the forum with very possitive results.
With the m4/3 to M-mount adaptors, available by the end of the year, you can even use the M-lenses-
There are some disussions in the forum with very possitive results.
With the m4/3 to M-mount adaptors, available by the end of the year, you can even use the M-lenses-
deepwhite
Well-known
I was considering selling mine, but then changed my mind again.
(1) I can't sell it for a good price now.
(2) I can use almost any old lenses on it. And I love MF lenses. I don't care about AF & VR. (So if you care, think twice.)
(3) It looks good, feels good, and takes good color pictures under ISO400 & great B/W pictures @ ISO1600.
(4) The image it takes is "real", while most DSLRs are too "artificially splendid" to my eyes. You can easily go from low-contrasy and low-saturated but well-captured, to splendid, but very hard the other way around.
(5) This is a very important feature to me: the built-in flash's got two angles. The "flash the roof and let the light bounce back to the subject" is VERY handy for indoor shot. It's much much more natural than the in-your-face flash. I almost never use a flash, but with the L1, I've got no problem using the built-in flash at all.
(1) I can't sell it for a good price now.
(2) I can use almost any old lenses on it. And I love MF lenses. I don't care about AF & VR. (So if you care, think twice.)
(3) It looks good, feels good, and takes good color pictures under ISO400 & great B/W pictures @ ISO1600.
(4) The image it takes is "real", while most DSLRs are too "artificially splendid" to my eyes. You can easily go from low-contrasy and low-saturated but well-captured, to splendid, but very hard the other way around.
(5) This is a very important feature to me: the built-in flash's got two angles. The "flash the roof and let the light bounce back to the subject" is VERY handy for indoor shot. It's much much more natural than the in-your-face flash. I almost never use a flash, but with the L1, I've got no problem using the built-in flash at all.
noimmunity
scratch my niche
Two other choices that may fit your bill:
1) the Sigma SD-14 is selling for $399 on ebay
2) the Fuji S5 Pro can sometimes be had for under $500 (especially if you are waiting another six months).
1) the Sigma SD-14 is selling for $399 on ebay
2) the Fuji S5 Pro can sometimes be had for under $500 (especially if you are waiting another six months).
Rick Waldroup
Well-known
I own two L1 bodies. I have the Leica zoom and I also shoot an Olympus 40-150 zoom (the older version), and I have an Olympus 25mm pancake lens being delivered any day now. I love the cameras. They are cool looking, easy to shoot, and when using the Leica lens, I like having an f/stop ring, as many here have already mentioned. The viewfinder is not a deal breaker for me at all.
photorat
Registered Abuser
It's a great camera. I had one which I sold a couple of years ago when I got into RFs (well, it was a Leica Digilux III but it's the same camera). I bought it because it had intuitive (i.e. analogue) aperture control on the lens barrel itself. Loved the images, very versatile but the 'real' Leica dream has me hooked. I traded it all in for an R-D1, M2 and some classic lenses that beat the pants of DSLR any day. But as far as the latter go, the Panasonic is a classic. Go for it, I'd say.
JJW
Established
Still waiting for a deal on a lightly used L1
Still waiting for a deal on a lightly used L1
Still looking. I was kind of hoping to run into someone who had a lightly used example that was sitting in the closet.
I have a Canon G5 P&S but haven't really used it for serious work... just snaps and internet stuff. It's a nice camera. But I would like to see firsthand what all the DSLR hoopla is all about.
And sorry pkreyenhop, I've had very bad luck with overseas transactions. I am still waiting for a CV 75mm to show up from Sydney AUS from a seller on this board who swore up and down he sent it to me. That was back in 2004.
CONUS please.
Anyone? PM me.
Still waiting for a deal on a lightly used L1
Still looking. I was kind of hoping to run into someone who had a lightly used example that was sitting in the closet.
I have a Canon G5 P&S but haven't really used it for serious work... just snaps and internet stuff. It's a nice camera. But I would like to see firsthand what all the DSLR hoopla is all about.
And sorry pkreyenhop, I've had very bad luck with overseas transactions. I am still waiting for a CV 75mm to show up from Sydney AUS from a seller on this board who swore up and down he sent it to me. That was back in 2004.
CONUS please.
Anyone? PM me.
kshapero
South Florida Man
Oly 520 has VR and it is not top end.
hamradio
Well-known
Very interesting. Why is the sd14 so cheap? I was doing some reading, and do really like the ability to easily shoot IR. The one thing I didn't like about it is that it seems like one is bound to only sigma lenses with it.
The s5 is also quite intriguing, using the nikon mount and all.
I was also looking into the pentax's previously mentioned...the prices are quite nice.
minoltist7
pussy photographer
L1 is an interesting camera. It has "retro-style" body design with analog controls (partly resembling rangefinders ).
And standard lens has manual aperture ring. Very rare feature on modern autofocus SLR lenses
And standard lens has manual aperture ring. Very rare feature on modern autofocus SLR lenses